Official Black Panther MCU Thread

[Ziggiy]

Spoiler

See we don't know that yet. Because the revolution caused by the MA ultimately set Jabari on fire. So I don't know if they're blameless

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Spoiler

Not saying they are blameless but everything we've seen of the MA so far have been them liberating innocents while punishing evil doers so them being down to bomb a gathering of innocent bystanders within their home country seems backwards. Tetu is already shown to not give a fukk he just wants to inflict maximum damage and with Stane's taunts and Zenzi's current state it makes sense that he'd retaliate

 

[Neuromancer]

It did remind me of that scene between T'Challa and another kid in the Hudlin run, in fact.

It's the same scene. Idk if Coates didn't read that or what but he's always been there for the people. Unless they bring up his globe trotting Avenger days up or his FF days as some way of escaping responsibility, then I'm not sure this is an accurate assessment.

 

[Neuromancer]

Spoiler

Not saying they are blameless but everything we've seen of the MA so far have been them liberating innocents while punishing evil doers so them being down to bomb a gathering of innocent bystanders within their home country seems backwards. Tetu is already shown to not give a fukk he just wants to inflict maximum damage and with Stane's taunts and Zenzi's current state it makes sense that he'd retaliate

This is true. But why exactly is Tetu a mad man and they're clean as a whistle. I feel like we don't know Tetu's origin.

 

[Birnin Zana]

This is true. But why exactly is Tetu a mad man and they're clean as a whistle. I feel like we don't know Tetu's origin.

Based on what we have, I'd say that the MAs want a change in the system, including possibly a regime change.

Tetu seems like he almost wants a whole reset altogether. Notice that even the MAs were low-key side-eyeing him when he made his proposal to them. They have a common goal, which is to beat T'Challa, but beyond that, their paths diverge greatly.

 

[Neuromancer]

Based on what we have, I'd say that the MAs want a change in the system, including possibly a regime change.

Tetu seems like he almost wants a whole reset altogether. Notice that even the MAs were low-key side-eyeing him when he made his proposal to them. They have a common goal, which is to beat T'Challa, but beyond that, their paths diverge greatly.

I kinda wonder if Shuri was queen would the MA have a problem.... I get that Tetu is basically Achabe from Priest's run. I'm just wondering what everyone wants and why they don't feel that T'challa can be reasoned with?

Also the Monarchy have kept Wakanda unconquered for eons. If Wakanda was any thing else we know it would have expected folded.

 

[Birnin Zana]

I kinda wonder if Shuri was queen would the MA have a problem....

Shuri being alive would've prevented a lot of problems. The MAs breaking away may have still happened if Aneka murked the corrupt chieftain again, but the Doras did side with Shuri in New Avengers, so there's a chance that a lot of them don't break away from the Kingdom. Hell, who knows, Shuri might've commuted Aneka's sentence and the MAs don't break away all together. We'll never know.

Also, Shuri being dead appears to be adding on the mistrust the Wakandans have of the Monarchy right now. Tetu's revolution would've had less weight if she was alive from the jump.

I get that Tetu is basically Achabe from Priest's run. I'm just wondering what everyone wants and why they don't feel that T'challa can be reasoned with?

Both the MAs and Tetu want T'Challa out, that is clear. The MAs want a Wakanda that is more proactive in terms of protecting Wakandans throughout the country (not saying Wakanda hasn't been doing that throughout its history, I'm only making sense of what Coates is doing). Tetu wants a new system, a new way of living in Wakanda, and T'Challa and the Monarchy is in the way of that.

T'Challa clearly doesn't want to give up the throne, thus there is conflict.

Also the Monarchy have kept Wakanda unconquered for eons. If Wakanda was any thing else we know it would have expected folded.

Unfortunately, editorial recently made sure that under the monarchy, Wakanda is not only attacked heavily multiple times, but also destroyed and all Wakandans eradicated. Wouldn't surprise me if someone wanted a new system after that. The question is, will any proposed system better than the current one.

 

[loyola llothta]

BP rogues gallery seem poor, whats with hulk buster

 

[Neuromancer]

Shuri being alive would've prevented a lot of problems. The MAs breaking away may have still happened if Aneka murked the corrupt chieftain again, but the Doras did side with Shuri in New Avengers, so there's a chance that a lot of them don't break away from the Kingdom. Hell, who knows, Shuri might've commuted Aneka's sentence and the MAs don't break away all together. We'll never know.

Also, Shuri being dead appears to be adding on the mistrust the Wakandans have of the Monarchy right now. Tetu's revolution would've had less weight if she was alive from the jump.



Both the MAs and Tetu want T'Challa out, that is clear. The MAs want a Wakanda that is more proactive in terms of protecting Wakandans throughout the country (not saying Wakanda hasn't been doing that throughout its history, I'm only making sense of what Coates is doing). Tetu wants a new system, a new way of living in Wakanda, and T'Challa and the Monarchy is in the way of that.

T'Challa clearly doesn't want to give up the throne, thus there is conflict.



Unfortunately, editorial recently made sure that under the monarchy, Wakanda is not only attacked heavily multiple times, but also destroyed and all Wakandans eradicated. Wouldn't surprise me if someone wanted a new system after that. The question is, will any proposed system better than the current one.

I don't get how Shuri being alive changes things. All the destruction happened under her reign.

 

[Birnin Zana]

I don't get how Shuri being alive changes things.

Based on the previous books, I'd say the Wakandan people, the MAs, and Tetu's group probably like her or at least don't dislike her as much as they dislike T'Challa. I elaborate on that below.

All the destruction happened under her reign.

Remember all the stuff Tetu mentioned in issue #3? They were all T'Challa related: collaborating with Namor behind the Wakandan's back while Wakanda was at war with Atlantis, leaving Shuri behind (he obviously doesn't know that Shuri told T'Challa to go), and so on. In fact, that collaboration with Namor indirectly led to Namor releasing the Cabal, who ended up destroying Wakanda. It is why, prior to her death, Shuri made T'Challa promise that he'll kill Namor.

As for the destruction during Shuri's reign. If you noticed, every time Wakanda was severely attacked under her reign, Wakanda responded strongly.

-The Desturi started a coup in Wakanda = Shuri orders her forces to eradicate them, which they do.

-Namor attacks Wakanda in AvX, killing many Wakandans = Shuri declares war on Atlantis and orders Atlantis to be wiped off the map, which happens. It's important to note that that in particular was something both the Wakandan people and the majority of the Wakandan government wanted to happen.

In short, it's safe to say that she earned a lot of goodwill from the government and her people at that point. To the point that the Hatute Zeraze were loyally on her side and that the Doras eventually switched to her side, at T'Challa's expense.

Only time a strong response didn't happen was during the Cabal's attack on Wakanda, in part because T'Challa was secretly collaborating with Namor and the illuminati and because T'Challa refused to tell the Wakandan government about the incursions. By the time he did, it was too late: Thanos and the cabal were freed and were destroying worlds, and eventually reached Wakanda, destroying it and damn near killing everyone.

 

[Neuromancer]

Based on the previous books, I'd say the Wakandan people, the MAs, and Tetu's group probably like her or at least don't dislike her as much as they dislike T'Challa. I elaborate on that below.



Remember all the stuff Tetu mentioned in issue #3? They were all T'Challa related: collaborating with Namor behind the Wakandan's back while Wakanda was at war with Atlantis, leaving Shuri behind (he obviously doesn't know that Shuri told T'Challa to go), and so on. In fact, that collaboration with Namor indirectly led to Namor releasing the Cabal, who ended up destroying Wakanda. It is why, prior to her death, Shuri made T'Challa promise that he'll kill Namor.

As for the destruction during Shuri's reign. If you noticed, every time Wakanda was severely attacked under her reign, Wakanda responded strongly.

-The Desturi started a coup in Wakanda = Shuri orders her forces to eradicate them, which they do.

-Namor attacks Wakanda in AvX, killing many Wakandans = Shuri declares war on Atlantis and orders Atlantis to be wiped off the map, which happens. It's important to note that that in particular was something both the Wakandan people and the majority of the Wakandan government wanted to happen.

In short, it's safe to say that she earned a lot of goodwill from the government and her people at that point. To the point that the Hatute Zeraze were loyally on her side and that the Doras eventually switched to her side, at T'Challa's expense.

Only time a strong response didn't happen was during the Cabal's attack on Wakanda, in part because T'Challa was secretly collaborating with Namor and the illuminati and because T'Challa refused to tell the Wakandan government about the incursions. By the time he did, it was too late: Thanos and the cabal were freed and were destroying worlds, and eventually reached Wakanda, destroying it and damn near killing everyone.

We'll when you put it like that no one should like T'challa. He did make good on his killing Namor promise or he tried.

 

[Birnin Zana]

We'll when you put it like that no one should like T'challa. He did make good on his killing Namor promise or he tried.

To be fair, he did managed to bring everyone back via the infinity gem, which was a major feat. Problem is, how he got it done got him into a lot of trouble with his people. .Some Wakandans basically called him a bytch to his face for actions he committed in the name of "saving the world" that they strongly disagreed with. He even gets banned from the country and no one stood in his behalf. Then he returns as King of Wakanda, but the people still remember what he did. Thus, there is mistrust and possibly resentment.

It is why T'Challa talking to the locals with Ramonda in this issue was a great idea. He was showing that he genuinely cared about his people (he obviously does care, but he perhaps hoped that his actions would speak for themselves. In this case, more is indeed as Ramonda mentioned), and they were starting to appreciate that, as the comic showed.

 

[Neuromancer]

To be fair, he did managed to bring everyone back via the infinity gem, which was a major feat. Problem is, how he got it done got him into a lot of trouble with his people. .Some Wakandans basically called him a bytch to his face for actions he committed in the name of "saving the world" that they strongly disagreed with. He even gets banned from the country and no one stood in his behalf. Then he returns as King of Wakanda, but the people still remember what he did. Thus, there is mistrust and possibly resentment.

It is why T'Challa talking to the locals in with Ramonda in this issue was a great idea. He was showing that he genuinely cared about his people (he obviously does care, but he perhaps hoped that his actions would speak for themselves. In this case, more is indeed as Ramonda mentioned), and they were starting to appreciate that, as the comic showed.

His actions to save the world and Wakanda because it's in the world were justified. T'chaka even agreed. (Until he stopped killing planets.) I don't think Shuri or even T'chaka himself could have done better.

 

[Birnin Zana]

His actions to save the world and Wakanda because it's in the world were justified. T'chaka even agreed. (Until he stopped killing planets.) I don't think Shuri or even T'chaka himself could have done better.

From my perspective, the real issue isn't who could've done better. It's all about how one approaches the solving of a problem. How one does things tells a lot about someone. That's what got T'Challa in trouble, both with his people and even with his father and ancestors.

His actions may have been justified but he should've told his people about what was happening. His people had no idea whatsoever what was going on. And when they asked him, he lied. And when he got caught lying, he refused to tell them what was happening or why he was working with Namor. And when they finally do find out what is happening, Wakanda and its people gets destroyed, in part because of Namor. That's why several Wakandans low key feel some type of way about T'Challa, despite what he accomplished.

Same principle applies to the bomb issue in NA. T'Challa decides to go with the bomb idea, to the point of cosigning the mindwipe of Cap. But minutes before the incursion happens, he bails out on the idea and nearly dooms his people and even his world, due to moral (and arguably noble) reasons. Understandably so, T'Chaka and the previous Panthers not only get pissed, but disowned him on the spot. Sure, T'Challa's reasons for not using the bomb in the end were understandable, but that was the really wrong way to go about it, especially considering that he is a BP.

 

[Neuromancer]

From my perspective, the real issue isn't who could've done better. It's all about how one approaches the solving of a problem. How one does things tells a lot about someone. That's what got T'Challa in trouble, both with his people and even with his father and ancestors.

His actions may have been justified but he should've told his people about what was happening. His people had no idea whatsoever what was going on. And when they asked him, he lied. And when he got caught lying, he refused to tell them what was happening or why he was working with Namor. And when they finally do find out what is happening, Wakanda and its people gets destroyed, in part because of Namor. That's why several Wakandans low key feel some type of way about T'Challa, despite what he accomplished.

Same principle applies to the bomb issue in NA. T'Challa decides to go with the bomb idea, to the point of cosigning the mindwipe of Cap. But minutes before the incursion happens, he bails out on the idea and nearly dooms his people and even his world, due to moral (and arguably noble) reasons. Understandably so, T'Chaka and the previous Panthers not only get pissed, but disowned him on the spot. Sure, T'Challa's reasons for not using the bomb in the end were understandable, but that was the really wrong way to go about it, especially considering that he is a BP.

What do you think he should have done?

 

[Birnin Zana]

What do you think he should have done?

If it were strictly up to me, T'Challa would've told Shuri about the incursions, so that Wakanda could have its own scientists try to come up with a solution for the incursions or have contingencies if the worst case scenario was to come and an incursion was imminent. Most likely the Wakandans would've failed to find a solution and would have a life raft contingency, in which they evacuate as many Wakandans as possibly from Earth when the time comes. shyt goes down, they somehow all die except T'Challa, and T'Challa brings everyone back like in Secret Wars. The difference is the Wakandan people knew before dying that T'Challa had their back by providing them with key intel that saved a lot of lives. Much less animosity this time, unless a writer really forces it.

But regardless of the approach, T'Challa should've picked one and stuck to it. When you think about it, he sacrificed a shyt ton under the pretext that morality doesn't mean much if it doesn't help his people and his nation (annulling his marriage, straining his friendship with Cap in NA, losing the trust of his sister and his people, and so on). Yet he bailed out of the bomb plan because of morality in the end, resulting in him being disowned by his father and his ancestors. It's as if he couldn't figure out if he wanted to be T'Challa the superhero or T'Challa the King. He tried doing both and it blew up in his face.

If there's one "advantage" Shuri and T'Chaka have over T'Challa, its that they know exactly who they are from the jump and don't shy away from it. They are monarchs through and through have little to no interest in playing the superhero game. Shuri and T'Chaka would've used the bomb in NA, strictly out of duty. It doesn't mean that they would've enjoyed doing it. It also doesn't mean they are better BPs or better people than T'Challa overall because of that as well. All it means is that each BPs code, morality, and attachment to duty is different.