Birnin Zana

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Speak on it :ehh:

Oh? Do tell :jbhmm:

I'll elaborate a bit. I obviously can be completely wrong and I'm obviously not an industry insider. Just speculation on my part.

One potential issue this film may have, imo, revolves around something @teacher and @lutha brought up.
African country>>>>white world :yeshrug: :mjpls: gonna be like that's to much suspension of disbelief :smugbiden:

as for this movie:

as much as I think this is a cool character and marvel will always get props from me for pushing him as hard as they did initially(1st major black comic hero), i've held my excitement back for this movie...just have this feeling they not really gonna let the movie be as pro-black/dominated as it should be...think they gonna add in some white savior to save him at the end.....hope they prove me wrong...anyway, chad killed the scenes he was in, was able to pull off panther, so that's a good start....gonna have to wait and see...

To start, the BP solo will not be "pro-black" in the way we usually think. It's made by Disney and is expected to be consumed by a global audience. I doubt they will go that angle.

What we can hope for is for T'Challa, his supporting cast, and Wakanda to be on top of their game through and through. The movie doesn't have to go too far on ideology, but so long as they are shown in a very competent light and ultimately winning throughout the film, then that alone will be empowering in its own right.

With that said, concerning a white savior and suspension of disbelief from the audience, or lack there of. That is def something to think about. Wakanda being in Africa AND historically isolated means the country is basically all-black. Unlike many Hollywood movies set in Africa or with a majority black cast, there is no white savior. Wakandans handle their business and handle it very well, whether it is via T'Challa, his support cast (the Doras, Shuri, W'Kabi, Zuri, Taku, S'Yan, and Ramonda), and even the Wakandan people as a whole and Wakanda as a country.

Thus, its possible that some of the production team of the BP solo may want to find a way to have a competent white character in the film, that isn't antagonistic against T'Challa but doesn't take away from him or much of the supporting cast. One possibility could be White Wolf, a white man raised in Wakanda who is very competent at what he does, but he has an antagonistic relationship with T'Challa (not to mention he's mad jealous and low key crazy imo). Another is Everett Ross (who was in Cap: Civil War) but he's neither a warrior or a very-high ranking diplomat and ultimately serves as mostly comic relief. One could use a previous MCU character (Cap, Bucky, etc), but they should be as cameos imo, as that could take away from T'Challa and def WILL take away from his supporting cast.

Which brings me to another potential issue: the supporting cast. As I said in another thread before: liking T'Challa is very easy. He is a King who--by Wakandan standards--is quite progressive, highly intelligent, physically strong, and is quite principled. There's a lot to like.

The real question is how will the mainstream feel about the supporting cast? Already, T'Challa's supporting cast is all black, outside of Ross and White Wolf (who often serves as villain in the BP-verse). Family appears to be a major factor in the BP solo so they, along with T'Challa, will have a lot of screen time in the film. Several of his inner circle have an antagonistic view of outsiders. Some have even clashed with T'Challa over that issue, and in many cases for good reason.

Will the mainstream be cool with black characters openly being hostile to foreigners (and white characters in particular), even if they have legit reasons to be hostile? How will they feel if T'Challa sides with them, or even takes a stance that pits him against the West in some way, shape, or form? How will they feel about the villain--Klaw in this case--being potentially a villain with no sympathetic angle that could get defeat / murked without T'Challa going through some "Pyrrhic victory" shyt?

Overall its going to be a tough balancing act. On one hand, you want to be as faithful to the comics as possible. On the other hand, you want the mainstream to be as committed to the BP franchise as possible. Then there are flat out storytelling possibilities to consider that may require lots of tweaking. But then you don't want to chump T'Challa or his supporting cast along the way.

I had more in my mind, but I lost my train of thought. I'll mention them once I'll remember them.
 

lutha

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@Realdealholy didn't want to quote, it's a long post....but want to commit on what you said:

excellent post brotha...that's exactly why I haven't gotten as excited about this movie as I want to....as great as it as we getting a 'black panther' movie, we gotta remember at the end of the day it's about money...Disney gonna be more concerned about putting people in seats then they are about staying true to the comic/character...so they going to make this as appealing to non blacks as possible....one way they've already hinted at making it more appealing to the masses: making klaw more sympathetic than he should be, which would fall right in line with how marvel has been handling all the villains so far...the whole 'been wronged, so i'm doing fukked up things, but overall i'm not a bad guy' angle.....think back to AoU: he kept looking at a pic of a lil girl (presumably his daughter), talking about he's lost a lot already....right there, they laying the foundation of 'this white man isn't fukking with bp & his people cause he's evil/racist/doesn't like them/it's about money/etc; no, something 'bad' happened to him, he just needs 'help''...

another way I think they going to try is what you touched on: wakandians don't fukk with outsiders, for very good reasons...watch they somehow make it to where bp is enlightened/'better' by leading & getting his 'left behind in thinking' people to trust outsiders/giving them a 'second/third/fourth/etc chance'...and watch those outsiders just happen to be white....not only that, watch the person/people that end up helping bp be white, while the ones trying to take him/the country down be black/other wakandians....
 
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lutha

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:damn: yall fukkin up my outlook on the solo :mjcry:

but I just saw Creed today good flick...I think the movie will at least be serviceable and not cringe worthy with that director at the helm *crosses fingers

lol I don't mean to do that, i'm just stating my thoughts...hopefully i'm wrong about it...
 

Birnin Zana

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@lutha, My bad for the long post, got carried away lol.

@Realdealholy didn't want to quote, it's a long post....but want to commit on what you said:

excellent post brotha...that's exactly why I haven't gotten as excited about this movie as I want to....as great as it as we getting a 'black panther' movie, we gotta remember at the end of the day it's about money...Disney gonna be more concerned about putting people in seats then they are about staying true to the comic/character...so they going to make this as appealing to non blacks as possible....one way they've already hinted at making it more appealing to the masses: making klaw more sympathetic than he should be, which would fall right in line with how marvel has been handling all the villains so far...the whole 'been wronged, so i'm doing fukked up things, but overall i'm not a bad guy' angle.....think back to AoU: he kept looking at a pic of a lil girl (presumably his daughter), talking about he's lost a lot already....right there, they laying the foundation of 'this white man isn't fukking with bp & his people cause he's evil/racists/doesn't like them/it's about money/etc; no, something 'bad' happened to him, he just needs 'help''...

Didn't notice that part of the Klaw scene. I'll give it another look. If that indeed is the case, then its very possible that Klaw may be portrayed in a much more sympathetic light this time around.

another way I think they going to try is what you touched on: wakandians don't fukk with outsiders, for very good reasons...watch they somehow make it to where bp is enlightened/'better' by leading & getting his 'left behind in thinking' people to trust outsiders/giving them a 'second/third/fourth/etc chance'...and watch those outsiders just happen to be white....not only that, watch the person/people that end up helping bp be white, while the ones trying to take him/the country down be black/other wakandians....
LOL, I have had many debates online and off about the bold. Some moments in the comics even I was like " breh you trust them a biiiit too much :dahell:." And yea, the rest of your post is verrrrry possible. I think it even happens in the comics in various ways (the beginning of Doom War for example). The other possible variation is Klaw trying to take down the country, with the help of several black people from other countries (African or otherwise), which did happen in the early times of the Hudlin run.

I fux with T'Challa heavy, but when you look at it, the majority of the alternate POVs for Wakanda are ultimately there to make T'Challa's POV look good. Consider the main representatives of the alternate povs:

-M'Baku is a hardcore traditionalist who wants Wakanda to straight up go back to the old ways. Not a good look for Wakanda.
-Killmonger wants Wakanda to basically become a Westernized nation. Not a good look for Wakanda.
-White Wolf's love for Wakanda is unfortunately stained by jingoism. Breh's an extremist. Not a good look for Wakanda (imho).

The only counter balance to T'Challa's views that actually doesn't end up looking bad, so far, is Shuri's, which is essentially moderate traditionalism. I would be quite surprised if they put her viewpoints in the big screen. But you never know :mannyshrug:
 
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Birnin Zana

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:damn: yall fukkin up my outlook on the solo :mjcry:

but I just saw Creed today good flick...I think the movie will at least be serviceable and not cringe worthy with that director at the helm *crosses fingers

lol, no need to fret. I think when it's all said and done, we will all enjoy the film and think it was a good look. :obama:

With that said, we're just keeping it honest and tempering expectations. It's only fair to do so, if only to avoid major disappointment, and recognize what platform we are dealing with. There's a reason why this movie took so long to be developed and some of the issues we've brought up definitely had something to do with it.

But again, I think the movie will be good, when its all said and done.
 

lutha

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@Realdealholy

lol you good man...had no problem reading it, just didn't want to take up so much space quoting and replying to it...

- yea, check out that scene in AoU and tell me what you think...
- true, the other viewpoints are there to make his look better, just hope they don't go too far with it like you said....have us thinking 'you trusting them a bit too much'.....
 
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MikelArteta

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Remember that old avengers animated film when cap went to wakanda and helped black panther?


I'll elaborate a bit. I obviously can be completely wrong and I'm obviously not an industry insider. Just speculation on my part.

One potential issue this film may have, imo, revolves around something @teacher and @lutha brought up.




To start, the BP solo will not be "pro-black" in the way we usually think. It's made by Disney and is expected to be consumed by a global audience. I doubt they will go that angle.

What we can hope for is for T'Challa, his supporting cast, and Wakanda to be on top of their game through and through. The movie doesn't have to go too far on ideology, but so long as they are shown in a very competent light and ultimately winning throughout the film, then that alone will be empowering in its own right.

With that said, concerning a white savior and suspension of disbelief from the audience, or lack there of. That is def something to think about. Wakanda being in Africa AND historically isolated means the country is basically all-black. Unlike many Hollywood movies set in Africa or with a majority black cast, there is no white savior. Wakandans handle their business and handle it very well, whether it is via T'Challa, his support cast (the Doras, Shuri, W'Kabi, Zuri, Taku, S'Yan, and Ramonda), and even the Wakandan people as a whole and Wakanda as a country.

Thus, its possible that some of the production team of the BP solo may want to find a way to have a competent white character in the film, that isn't antagonistic against T'Challa but doesn't take away from him or much of the supporting cast. One possibility could be White Wolf, a white man raised in Wakanda who is very competent at what he does, but he has an antagonistic relationship with T'Challa (not to mention he's mad jealous and low key crazy imo). Another is Everett Ross (who was in Cap: Civil War) but he's neither a warrior or a very-high ranking diplomat and ultimately serves as mostly comic relief. One could use a previous MCU character (Cap, Bucky, etc), but they should be as cameos imo, as that could take away from T'Challa and def WILL take away from his supporting cast.

Which brings me to another potential issue: the supporting cast. As I said in another thread before: liking T'Challa is very easy. He is a King who--by Wakandan standards--is quite progressive, highly intelligent, physically strong, and is quite principled. There's a lot to like.

The real question is how will the mainstream feel about the supporting cast? Already, T'Challa's supporting cast is all black, outside of Ross and White Wolf (who often serves as villain in the BP-verse). Family appears to be a major factor in the BP solo so they, along with T'Challa, will have a lot of screen time in the film. Several of his inner circle have an antagonistic view of outsiders. Some have even clashed with T'Challa over that issue, and in many cases for good reason.

Will the mainstream be cool with black characters openly being hostile to foreigners (and white characters in particular), even if they have legit reasons to be hostile? How will they feel if T'Challa sides with them, or even takes a stance that pits him against the West in some way, shape, or form? How will they feel about the villain--Klaw in this case--being potentially a villain with no sympathetic angle that could get defeat / murked without T'Challa going through some "Pyrrhic victory" shyt?

Overall its going to be a tough balancing act. On one hand, you want to be as faithful to the comics as possible. On the other hand, you want the mainstream to be as committed to the BP franchise as possible. Then there are flat out storytelling possibilities to consider that may require lots of tweaking. But then you don't want to chump T'Challa or his supporting cast along the way.

I had more in my mind, but I lost my train of thought. I'll mention them once I'll remember them.
 

Danie84

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Nice to hear T'Challa came thru:cape: & Snoop Dogg the building:myman:

...2 more years til we get our Real African superhero:boss: in his full NEGUS essence:ohlawd:

BLACKEXCELLENCE:blessed:
 
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Conz

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I'm convinced Bucky is gonna have a minor to co-starring role in this movie. Like with Ant-man having Falcon, they probably won't use Cap much if at all but a secondary Avenger. I think Bruhl will play into this movie somehow too.

After watching CW, this is now my most anticipated Marvel movie. they could do no wrong. I'm ready to finally drop the denial and admit I'm a fanboy.
 

Jazzy B.

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This is going to be Civil War Part 2 and it will be done similarly to The Winter Soldier. Where its big but not Avengers big.

How I think it will play out plot wise


That was a set-up for the Black Panther movie. He's gonna battle his people and the world over harbouring and sponsoring The fugitive Avengers or Bucky.


Might come across :patrice::mjpls: if it's handled incorrectly. Probably why Coogler's doing it.
 
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