What do you all think of this
Official Bernie Sanders HQ: Not Me, Us!
- Thread starter Berniewood Hogan
- Start date
afterlife2009
Superstar
I posted about it in the primary thread but I'll copy and elaborate here -- This is 100% something Josh Hawley will exploit. His rhetoric and style polishes what Trump began. The next wave of energy for the Republicans after Trump will be a mix of Josh Hawley/Tucker Carlson turned politicians who merge together Tucker's right wing anti-capitalist gimmick and Hawley's desire for a theocracy.
This is why Bernie getting the nomination is imperative because these right wing populist theocrats will be emboldened during an ineffective Biden presidency. You need a competent left argument and movement to counter the Josh Hawley's of the world. Bernie is old school and his style of politics isn't taught anymore that's why I'm slightly nervous about this new left.
Hawley is running a good rhetorical game and it will work if people aren't offered anything better. Especially if the response is just to call him racist/sexist, etc.
Look at this quote below and how he mixed in Bernie rhetoric with religion/demographic changes
Hillary and Chuck Schumer have openly chased after suburban republicans and said it's okay if we lose blue collar voters. If Bernie fails, we are eventually going to see a realignment.
I agree with this
i honestly cant stand some of the people in that twitter feed, this defeatism attitude, ok maybe we cant get it passed in a conventional way. so what is the great establishment solution? sit on our hands and do nothing? these people act like they have this successful formula for all these years that has been working, no theyre miserable failures. now someone is like hey can we just TRY it another way? oh no unrealistic. like what exactly are regular dems "getting done" cause i havent seen a damn thing for 40 years. I hate this attitude that what we do now isnt this massive failure. it is. let the movement try at least. the accusation that bernie is selling snake oil. thats literally what every politician does. at least he actually believes in what hes saying and will fight for it unlike the rest of these liars
afterlife2009
Superstar
This whole filibuster discourse to boost Warren and dunk on Sanders is peak liberal technocratic bullshyt that I hate. The executive can't end the filibuster. Bernie has already said how he'll get around it. Idk what's worse --- when professional libs concern troll Bernie about how he'll pass legislation or when socialists dunk on Bernie for not sounding like a DSA member when talking about Israel/Palestine. These people are still civility libs at the end of the day cosplaying as "I'm to Bernie's left"
Warren went out of her way to defend Joe Manchin. After John Hicklenlooper dropped out, she tweeted that he ran an inspirational campaign after he called Medicare-for-all and the Green New Deal Stalinist like proposals. When they're in the senate, they aren't ending the filibuster.
There's just a struggle going on between the Warren technocratic left and Bernie's vision because like I said his style is like a message in the bottle in the ocean from the pre-neoliberal era and it doesn't connect.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Preach brother. As a Bernie supporter I'm not even saying his ideas and how to go about them will definitely work but can we at least TRY something besides stupid triangulation and negotiating ourselves to the middle which leads to the status quo of doing little to nothing? Like Trump being president isn't a big enough defeat to change strategy?! What will it fukkin' take?!
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Bernie is selling snake oil if he's saying he will pass his M4A bill through reconciliation, and him genuinely believing in that snake oil doesn't make him better, it makes him worse. It's beneath his movement. Working with reality isn't defeatist, and the fact y'all are framing it this way is very concerning. The choice isn't between this quixotic "full M4A immediately or bust!" approach and doing nothing. As Warren has laid out, there are ways to expand M4A healthcare to over 100+ million people without attempting to force the maximal bill down the throats of centrist Dems who will reject it. The reason she has chosen to not make enemies of Manchin and Hickenlooper is because she realizes in a best case scenario they will be the deciding votes on whatever healthcare expansion is on the table, and she'll need their votes. Bernie apparently believes he will not need their votes somehow or can bully them into submission by threatening to primary them (Manchin and Hickenlooper wouldn't be up for re-election until 2026. so...ok). The fillibuster discourse wasn't designed to boost Warren, she's just the one acknowledging reality. And calling her stance that it should be eradicated "peak liberal technocratic bullshyt" is really stupid seeing as the filibuster itself is anti-democratic and antithetical to the revolution Bernie wants to bring about. Bernie didn't have to take this weird and frankly stupid position, he chose to. I hope this is just Bernie playing to his rose emoji twitter base during campaign season and he doesn't actually believe this dumb shyt he's saying. Otherwise, his administration will be DOA.
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
The last part you were getting to the strategy. Why negotiate with the opposition before you have to? Letting them know you are willing to soften your stance even before winning office is dumb. Strike the fear of God that a uber populist wave is on the way and they better be in or get out of the way. That way you get them softening their stance and pulling the conversation left not the other way. This is the art of negotiation, you technocrats have been triangulating and negotiating with the right before you have to for so long you forget that conviction is what works better in your favor during election season. We can negotiate when the time comes but right now we talking OUR shyt and the people are feeling us and what!!
Wonder how y’all missed this.
King Kreole
natural blondie like goku
Yeah it's very good demagoguery and election season campaign messaging, I just hope he doesn't actually believe what he's saying. Also, I'm not so sure opening a negotiation with an insult (threatening to primary) is going to lead to a better outcome than opening with a compliment when you're trying to get your opponent to move towards your side. The threat only works if it's credible, and that uber-populist wave threat is only credible if Bernie wins a dominant victory in WV. And even then, as I mentioned before, Manchin wouldn't be up for re-election until 2026, so he really doesn't have anything to fear from a Sanders-backed primary. Being bold and being dumb aren't the same thing.The last part you were getting to the strategy. Why negotiate with the opposition before you have to? Letting them know you are willing to soften your stance even before winning office is dumb. Strike the fear of God that a uber populist wave is on the way and they better be in or get out of the way. That way you get them softening their stance and pulling the conversation left not the other way. This is the art of negotiation, you technocrats have been triangulating and negotiating with the right before you have to for so long you forget that conviction is what works better in your favor during election season. We can negotiate when the time comes but right now we talking OUR shyt and the people are feeling us and what!!
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
Wonder how y’all missed this.
We didn't miss it we just know appealing to only 11-13% of the population isn't a winning strategy. Being right is cool but it isn't always effective. Let's be result oriented instead of being right but unappealing to most people.
OfTheCross
Veteran
Wonder how y’all missed this.
What is there to miss? He's been consistent in his position
AnonymityX1000
Veteran
See you are thinking Republicans or Republican like people are rational and will listen to reason. They aren't, you have to make your appeal more emotional. Anything approaching a mob with pitch forks demanding healthcare or any other good from the government scares them. All that, "Gee whiz, I'm not up for re-election anytime soon." Won't register if they are scared they will be ripped out of their office and stoned in the street before any election. You got to change the terrain you are fighting on with these a$$holes. You saw Obama try to heal Washington and appeal to them over and over with Republican like ideas. They spit in his face and wanted to go even more right after he was done talking. Being nice to these people doesn't work, you have to threaten them that what they have now will be gone so you better give us what we want or else.
storyteller
Veteran
Warren's plan is not more pragmatic and is just as unlikely to work. As if doing away with the filibuster, relying on the Hickenloopers and Manchins of the party for votes, passing a Public Option first and then passing M4A in quick succession is some pragmatic brilliant strategy. It's like, yall go out of your way to shyt on Bernie's plan but ignore the obvious challenges Warren is facing. It's just flat out biased thinking.
Here's the reality with BOTH situations. They're going to face extreme challenges and are unlikely to get through all of the obstacles. NO ONE is fooling themselves about the obstacles here. Except maybe you if you've deluded yourself into thinking Warren's plan is some pragmatic strategy that will magically pull through in the face of the exact same kind of opposition Bernie faces. If your end goal is actually M4A then Warren's plan is loaded with pitfalls because ANY plan to get M4A passed faces that. No need to gaslight Bernie and his supporters for choosing a different strategy.
Don't call anyone else's plans stupid if your strategy starts with "we're counting on Joe Manchin...removing the filibuster altogether...and passing two major healthcare overhauls in the course of one administration." Just stop it.