"NYK will surprise the NBA"...I believe 'em too. 19-20 NYK Offseason Thread

K-ZOE

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So tanking was worth it to not develop Knox :dwillhuh: We didn’t get Zion or Jah . We could of tanked and developed Knox

:mjgrin:

What kinda development were you looking for from Knox, B?? He started 57 of the 75 games he played. Averaged a hair under 13ppg. Played most of his minutes as a 4 with a weight/strength disadvantage most nights and still managed 4.5 rebounds. And he played just under 30 mins per game.

Some of you dudes and your extremes kill me. "Why contend for an 8th seed? We should tank for a rookie that will make us instant contenders"
"Our rook wasn't All-NBA or even All-Rookie in his 1st season!! He's a bust! He's not developed right!"

:comeon:
 

23Barrettcity

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:mjgrin:

What kinda development were you looking for from Knox, B?? He started 57 of the 75 games he played. Averaged a hair under 13ppg. Played most of his minutes as a 4 with a weight/strength disadvantage most nights and still managed 4.5 rebounds. And he played just under 30 mins per game.

Some of you dudes and your extremes kill me. "Why contend for an 8th seed? We should tank for a rookie that will make us instant contenders"
"Our rook wasn't All-NBA or even All-Rookie in his 1st season!! He's a bust! He's not developed right!"

:comeon:
Did you read all the posts? My point was about fiz and his coaching and if he developed players last year . He spent his time letting mudiay earn another contract and letting the guys like THJR dot and trier do them . He didn’t teach defense , team seems to have no real system and Knox wasn’t the focal point even when he played he was forcing things to me so he could earn playing time .
 

Daniel.

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Why is it taboo with us knicks fan to say a player is bad or is not showing any improvements. I can only imagine how highly you thought of landry fields 10yrs ago lol.

Let’s be honest, if any team saw potential in frank they would of been throwing a draft pick at us, but no one willing to part with even a 2nd round pick should tell us all we need to know about Frank.

I’ve waited a few years to say anything negative about him, so I’m definitely not in the same crowd that’s been dogging him for years.

It's not taboo, I think most people (maybe I'm just projecting) just don't agree with taking such strong stances on something when there is further context to consider.

It's one thing to say give him time, he's still young.

It's one thing to say, he hasn't shown much in 2 years.

It's another thing to say, after 2 seasons, that you've been waiting "a few years" to speak negatively on him. Like people are holding on to some concept or theory and don't want to be wrong for a minute when he's just now entering his 3rd year and has been under scrutiny from day 1.

Facts are, dude has had injuries and under 2 different coaches, he's never been given a consistent opportunity to be the primary ball handler.

That just is. We can get into all the reasons WHY and speculate, but like that vid dude pointed out earlier, this is going to be his 3rd year and the 3rd consecutive year where the front office has created a logjam at the PG position, making him the odd man out. You have a 6'7 defensive player and offensive facilitator and you're still trying to figure out his position? The man wants to dish the fukking ball out. Play him at PG. Let him work through his mistakes. Give him the same rope you have everyone else. But they don't value his strengths, so his weaknesses are magnified. And everyone eats it up. And I say this as someone that is sick and tired of timid ass Frank, but guess what? I'd be timid too if I felt like every mistake I made was going to define ME as a player, ME as a person. And I'm 32 - how can I judge a teenager, now early 20something for the same thing?

Speak to dudes body of work and say that it hasn't been impressive so far? Fair. But speak to the whole story. Speak to a GM trading for ANOTHER young player at the same position, trying to prove himself in the middle of the season, the very 1st year you're in the league. Trying to build competition? Fair. Except one gets all the chances to fukk up and the other doesn't. Not so fair. Speak to him being injury prone? Fair. Say the man didn't improve his 2nd season when he didn't play in half the games and when he did, had few instances of playing consistently? Not so fair.

The conversation about Frank is incredibly slanted and is always met with "we could have had DSJ, we could have had Mitchell" so it's never going to go in his favor. If we had a coach/front office that valued what he DID bring and try to maximize it despite his current limitations, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. But they don't, so we won't, and we'll get pennies on the dollar for this kid and be shocked when he actually becomes serviceable elsewhere. We still want him to be DSJ when we HAVE DSJ. Man had like 6 or 7 assists in 15 minutes of play and people are crying that he didn't drop 45 on them instead. Come on now.
 

Peter Popoff

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Did you read all the posts? My point was about fiz and his coaching and if he developed players last year . He spent his time letting mudiay earn another contract and letting the guys like THJR dot and trier do them . He didn’t teach defense , team seems to have no real system and Knox wasn’t the focal point even when he played he was forcing things to me so he could earn playing time .
He was playing Mudiay out because Dennis was injured and Frank just isn't good plus his contract was dirt cheap. Timmy got traded with Burke because no one wanted Mudiay and Dotson and Trier have a shyt ton of potential to develop on which was the obvious choice to give minutes too. Knox played the 4 because outside of Vonleh, we had no power forward on our team. Isaiah Hicks was ass and Knox and Mitch were our projects to develop. If we weren't focused on developing Knox, I guarantee you, he would've been traded with half the team for Anthony Davis by now already and a lot of coaches and scouts see the potential in both him and Mitchell. Mudiay is cleaned off our hands so now we have ample opportunity to figure out who's on the chopping block. I already know 2 of our original players who will be gone by next season.
 

ISO

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Why is it taboo with us knicks fan to say a player is bad or is not showing any improvements. I can only imagine how highly you thought of landry fields 10yrs ago lol.

Let’s be honest, if any team saw potential in frank they would of been throwing a draft pick at us, but no one willing to part with even a 2nd round pick should tell us all we need to know about Frank.

I’ve waited a few years to say anything negative about him, so I’m definitely not in the same crowd that’s been dogging him for years.
Landry had a very good rookie season

It’s sad he lost his shooting stroke and stayed injured. We didn’t include him in the Melo deal so we banked on him becoming a steady contributing role player that really hurt us.
 

ISO

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It's not taboo, I think most people (maybe I'm just projecting) just don't agree with taking such strong stances on something when there is further context to consider.

It's one thing to say give him time, he's still young.

It's one thing to say, he hasn't shown much in 2 years.

It's another thing to say, after 2 seasons, that you've been waiting "a few years" to speak negatively on him. Like people are holding on to some concept or theory and don't want to be wrong for a minute when he's just now entering his 3rd year and has been under scrutiny from day 1.

Facts are, dude has had injuries and under 2 different coaches, he's never been given a consistent opportunity to be the primary ball handler.

That just is. We can get into all the reasons WHY and speculate, but like that vid dude pointed out earlier, this is going to be his 3rd year and the 3rd consecutive year where the front office has created a logjam at the PG position, making him the odd man out. You have a 6'7 defensive player and offensive facilitator and you're still trying to figure out his position? The man wants to dish the fukking ball out. Play him at PG. Let him work through his mistakes. Give him the same rope you have everyone else. But they don't value his strengths, so his weaknesses are magnified. And everyone eats it up. And I say this as someone that is sick and tired of timid ass Frank, but guess what? I'd be timid too if I felt like every mistake I made was going to define ME as a player, ME as a person. And I'm 32 - how can I judge a teenager, now early 20something for the same thing?

Speak to dudes body of work and say that it hasn't been impressive so far? Fair. But speak to the whole story. Speak to a GM trading for ANOTHER young player at the same position, trying to prove himself in the middle of the season, the very 1st year you're in the league. Trying to build competition? Fair. Except one gets all the chances to fukk up and the other doesn't. Not so fair. Speak to him being injury prone? Fair. Say the man didn't improve his 2nd season when he didn't play in half the games and when he did, had few instances of playing consistently? Not so fair.

The conversation about Frank is incredibly slanted and is always met with "we could have had DSJ, we could have had Mitchell" so it's never going to go in his favor. If we had a coach/front office that valued what he DID bring and try to maximize it despite his current limitations, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion. But they don't, so we won't, and we'll get pennies on the dollar for this kid and be shocked when he actually becomes serviceable elsewhere. We still want him to be DSJ when we HAVE DSJ. Man had like 6 or 7 assists in 15 minutes of play and people are crying that he didn't drop 45 on them instead. Come on now.
Dude is ass. He’s been given plenty of opportunity both on and off the ball.

He cannot shoot, has no burst, makes predictable turnover prone P&R reads, he is a swing passer and plays a nonchalant, passive style of ball. He would tank our offense when he was on the floor and his defense is negated by terrible offense and a high foul rate.

It’s not the coaches it’s him. He has literally been one of the worst rotation players in the NBA through his 2 seasons. These coaches know his limitations son isn’t doing shyt against ball pressure as a lead ball handler. They see him in practice they know what it is. The proof is in all our faces. Hornacek wouldn’t start him, Fiz won’t start him, and his own French national team coach won’t start him when he is an NBA player. It’s him.

Stop bringing up his age. Y’all are babying him he’s in the NBA now, this is a grown man’s league, plenty of players in his age range doing their thing he was picked 8th. I’m not asking for anything crazy play aggressive, knock down wide open midrange dribble pull ups, and hit wide open C&S three pointers. It’s like half the time you watch him play he’s overwhelmed or unprepared for game action.
 

Peter Popoff

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Dude is ass. He’s been given plenty of opportunity both on and off the ball.

He cannot shoot, has no burst, makes predictable turnover prone P&R reads, he is a swing passer and plays a nonchalant, passive style of ball. He would tank our offense when he was on the floor and his defense is negated by terrible offense and a high foul rate.

It’s not the coaches it’s him. He has literally been one of the worst rotation players in the NBA through his 2 seasons. These coaches know his limitations son isn’t doing shyt against ball pressure as a lead ball handler. They see him in practice they know what it is. The proof is in all our faces. Hornacek wouldn’t start him, Fiz won’t start him, and his own French national team coach won’t start him when he is an NBA player. It’s him.

Stop bringing up his age. Y’all are babying him he’s in the NBA now, this is a grown man’s league, plenty of players in his age range doing their thing he was picked 8th. I’m not asking for anything crazy play aggressive, knock down wide open midrange dribble pull ups, and hit wide open C&S three pointers. It’s like half the time you watch him play he’s overwhelmed or unprepared for game action.
:preachbruh:
 

Peter Popoff

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Mind you, some of y'all being fans of Landry Fields, Lance Thomas and saying Melo should come back are the very reasons why we were going nowhere the last couple of years. These are the same excuses to keep NtilaLesbian and start him over better talent but I'll let this play out and hopefully I'm wrong.
 

ISO

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Nikkas really hyping some simple ass dimes against weak FIBA competition :mjtf:

Mans is a brick even with shortened FIBA dimensions :mjtf:

Bu bu his physicality on switches and he is locking up...against fukking Tunisians :mjlol:
 
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K-ZOE

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Did you read all the posts? My point was about fiz and his coaching and if he developed players last year . He spent his time letting mudiay earn another contract and letting the guys like THJR dot and trier do them . He didn’t teach defense , team seems to have no real system and Knox wasn’t the focal point even when he played he was forcing things to me so he could earn playing time .

No. I read the post of mine that you quoted and responded to you. About my post you quoted.

My point is Knox got plenty of development last year. He had a typical rookie season of a 19 year old with star potential. Inconsistent. Didn't shoot well as he adjusted to the speed and strength of the NBA. But averaged doubled figures. Showed nice range and athleticism. He played nearly 30 minutes a game. Played 75. Started 57. You simply cannot say his development was stunted because everything I just wrote is facts. But you seem to want to die on the "Knox wasn't developed" hill so.....:yeshrug:

As for Fiz, like I said in my 1st post, I feel like he coached as if he had orders from on high that they wanted a high draft pick this summer. He expressed confidence in Mudiay before the season, gave him the keys during the season.....then the offseason comes and management doesn't even have a conversation with him. And then signed another PG! They never loved Mud. They loved his tank commanding skills.
 

ISO

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Lil hoes in here:stopitslime: the fukk man, we got a possible gem in our hands and y’all wanna throw him to the bushes because he’s not scoring at will?! I swear to god some of y’all NY Nikkas only like flashiness, cross over, score first type point guards that don’t get us nowhere.
No no no
tenor.gif


Don’t do that NY nikka shyt you know what would have really impressed us from our 21 year old, 8th overall draft pick, coming into his third season PG?

If he went into FIBA camp with the mentality that he is starting. If he put up something like 10-5-5 through these two games, if he knocked down some jumpers and diversified his offensive attack a bit instead of doing the same P&R B.S., dude is still basic as fukk hitting rollers with lil pocket passes. :mjlol:
 

Peter Popoff

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Na, I don't think Fiz even loved Mudiay and already knew he was being traded long ago. He just learned how to establish a relationship and believe in people without causing toxic energy from the Gasol fiasco in Memphis.
 

23Barrettcity

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Na, I don't think Fiz even loved Mudiay and already knew he was being traded long ago. He just learned how to establish a relationship and believe in people without causing toxic energy from the Gasol fiasco in Memphis.
No. I read the post of mine that you quoted and responded to you. About my post you quoted.

My point is Knox got plenty of development last year. He had a typical rookie season of a 19 year old with star potential. Inconsistent. Didn't shoot well as he adjusted to the speed and strength of the NBA. But averaged doubled figures. Showed nice range and athleticism. He played nearly 30 minutes a game. Played 75. Started 57. You simply cannot say his development was stunted because everything I just wrote is facts. But you seem to want to die on the "Knox wasn't developed" hill so.....:yeshrug:

As for Fiz, like I said in my 1st post, I feel like he coached as if he had orders from on high that they wanted a high draft pick this summer. He expressed confidence in Mudiay before the season, gave him the keys during the season.....then the offseason comes and management doesn't even have a conversation with him. And then signed another PG! They never loved Mud. They loved his tank commanding skills.
You can make a bunch of excuses for why fiz coaches how he did but it wasn’t good coaching . We weren’t some talented team that played terribly to get a high draft pick .we were a bad team but if your saying we purposely played mudiay to tank as if we weren’t going to be either way :usure: no fiz was a bad coach based on actual results and he didn’t try to put Knox in the best position to succeed to me . This season since he is a great coach according to you then he has 0 excuses
 

ISO

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You can make a bunch of excuses for why fiz coaches how he did but it wasn’t good coaching . We weren’t some talented team that played terribly to get a high draft pick .we were a bad team but if your saying we purposely played mudiay to tank as if we weren’t going to be either way :usure: no fiz was a bad coach based on actual results and he didn’t try to put Knox in the best position to succeed to me . This season since he is a great coach according to you then he has 0 excuses
Nah, the verdict is still out on Fiz. I know he was apart of great defenses in Miami and had the 7th ranked defense in Memphis. He’s coaching a bunch of sieves and young players.

Also, Mudiay played because Mudiay could get to the rim and had several monster games. It’s not some deep conspiracy.





As of right now Fiz hasn’t had a roster I feel we have depth and interesting pieces so after next season we can have a good scope on him. I believe this team should easily double its win pace and could possibly be a .500 team with excellent coaching.

Really not about to overly critique and scapegoat Fiz after ONE season and I do believe he brought positives as a coach.
 
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Daniel.

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Dude is ass. He’s been given plenty of opportunity both on and off the ball.

He cannot shoot, has no burst, makes predictable turnover prone P&R reads, he is a swing passer and plays a nonchalant, passive style of ball. He would tank our offense when he was on the floor and his defense is negated by terrible offense and a high foul rate.

It’s not the coaches it’s him. He has literally been one of the worst rotation players in the NBA through his 2 seasons. These coaches know his limitations son isn’t doing shyt against ball pressure as a lead ball handler. They see him in practice they know what it is. The proof is in all our faces. Hornacek wouldn’t start him, Fiz won’t start him, and his own French national team coach won’t start him when he is an NBA player. It’s him.

Stop bringing up his age. Y’all are babying him he’s in the NBA now, this is a grown man’s league, plenty of players in his age range doing their thing he was picked 8th. I’m not asking for anything crazy play aggressive, knock down wide open midrange dribble pull ups, and hit wide open C&S three pointers. It’s like half the time you watch him play he’s overwhelmed or unprepared for game action.

Again, lack of context.

I'd write a long ass post, line by line to all this shyt, but it wouldn't matter. Irrespective of his obvious limitations that I acknowledge and have already spoken to my personal dislike of, if you don't see how he's been handled as problematic, you never will. If you see it solely as a Frank issue to manage and put no responsibility on the coaching staff to put players in a position to succeed, we clearly have nothing further to discuss. I'll just say that as a person that manages training and personnel development by profession, watching how this kid is being handled is frustrating as hell. :hubie:
 
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