Newsom vs Deathsantis shadow debate; Thursday, Nov 30th

Professor Emeritus

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Dems need to ease up on attacking oil tho…it’s a bit shortsighted. It’s still a key element in all aspects of manufacturing, not just …gasoline. It seems shortsighted and doesn’t allow for more nuance on the topic.


Amazing that you would use the word "shortsighted" when talking about burning fukking gas. We should have pulled back on gas consumption 50 years ago, THAT was the shortsighted part.


* Our gas addiction is responsible for hundreds of thousands of premature deaths




* Our gas addiction leads to a constant stream of oil spills, many of which have had horrible consequences




* Our gas addiction funds terrorism across the world




* Our gas addiction forces us to look the other way on Saudi Arabian human rights abuses




* Our gas addiction is literally the only reason that Putin is able to pay for aggressive wars




* Notice that I haven't even mentioned climate change yet, literally the largest global threat modern humanity has ever faced, and one we're running out of time to address





Shortsighted? Are you fukking killing me? The USA has some of the lowest gas prices in the entire Western world, and those low prices are part of the reason that there's little impetus for change. We should have been building better public transportation networks 100 years ago. We should have been building better city planning 70 years ago. We should have been investing in electric cars 40 years ago. We are WAY fukking behind the eight ball on gas right now. But you care about (and understand) literally nothing other than the next political cycle, and there's always another political cycle coming, so you can't see with any long-term clarity at all.
 

Bleed The Freak

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This debate didn’t hurt desantis with his core base.

Losing to Trump doesn’t hurt him with his core base.


The fact that so called liberal people are criticizing Newsome for being a coastal elite when Desantis is a Yale and Harvard grab pumping his chest out about being destination for coastal elites tells you all you need to know :mjlol: .

American politics aren’t serious though. Biden has been the most progressive president since FDR and tech bros and lobbyists in this site are saying they aren’t voting for him because he didn’t pull all US aid from Israel :mjlol:

Ron is toast politically in 45-60 days. Florida will be sick of him and tune him out (since he'll be a loser nationally and have no clout as a lame duck), he has no relationships to speak of (both at home and DC) and he doesn't have the charm or personal wit to run in back ala Biden, Reagan. The GOP down there has openly pissed and moaned about his Disney feuds and never ending culture war BS.

That has nothing to do with Newsom. If he was polling halfway decent he wouldn't have even entertained this. It was an "L" for him on appearance alone.
 
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☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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Shortsighted? Are you fukking killing me? The USA has some of the lowest gas prices in the entire Western world, and those low prices are part of the reason that there's little impetus for change. We should have been building better public transportation networks 100 years ago. We should have been building better city planning 70 years ago. We should have been investing in electric cars 40 years ago. We are WAY fukking behind the eight ball on gas right now. But you care about (and understand) literally nothing other than the next political cycle, and there's always another political cycle coming, so you can't see with any long-term clarity at all.
I’m not talking about gasoline.

I’m talking…plastics. Genius.
 

Lexington Steele

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Literal Guantanamo Bay torturer versus the emptiest suit of all time. :russ:

2028, "THE MOST IMPORTANT ELECTION OF OUR LIVES!" :damn:

Odd, considering Trump's win in '24 will mean "DEMOCRACY IS OVER! WE NEVER GET TO VOTE AGAIN!" :damn:

Brought to you by Crypto-Amazon-Exxon. :deadrose:
 

Professor Emeritus

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I’m not talking about gasoline.

I’m talking…plastics. Genius.

this nikka @Rhakim dumbed out because I understand what oil is actually used for :laff:


"Most plastics are made from petrochemicals, meaning that fossil feedstocks are used in their production. However, only 4% of the world's fossil resources are used in plastics production."





"This fact itself raises questions such as, “How many barrels of oil go into plastic packaging?” A question that is quite difficult to answer. The Energy Information Administration absolutely refuses to answer it, saying that it collects no data in this segment. Yet data from a few years ago, when the EIA still collected information about this, shows that in 2010 some 191 million barrels of LPG and NGL were used for the production of plastics along with 412 billion cu ft of natural gas. The liquids amount constituted about 2.7 percent of the country’s total petroleum consumption. Most of the natural gas used in plastics production was used as a fuel rather than feedstock.

Plastics production accounts for about 4 percent of global oil production."




We don't even have to get into how many serious environmental and health issues overproduction of plastics has been causing, plastics are clearly NOT "what oil is actually used for". Oil demand due to plastics is a tiny fraction of overall oil use.
 

☑︎#VoteDemocrat

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"Most plastics are made from petrochemicals, meaning that fossil feedstocks are used in their production. However, only 4% of the world's fossil resources are used in plastics production."
you proved my point

A lot of stuff (even a lot of Pharma intermediates) come from oil. Focusing on purely energy substitutes is missing key nuance about how this discussion should be centered.

Make it about emissions, not oil and I think people will be more successful in this argument.

Being anti-oil is silly, frankly, especially considering freight and last-mile concerns and the limits of the grid. Plus we’re seeing the need for additional redundancy from war zones and the limits of technology to deliver essential services with reliability.
 

Professor Emeritus

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you proved my point

A lot of stuff (even a lot of Pharma intermediates) come from oil. Focusing on purely energy substitutes is missing key nuance about how this discussion should be centered.

Make it about emissions, not oil and I think people will be more successful in this argument.

Being anti-oil is silly, frankly, especially considering freight and last-mile concerns and the limits of the grid. Plus we’re seeing the need for additional redundancy from war zones and the limits of technology to deliver essential services with reliability.


This is why I had you blocked for years no matter how many times you kept begging me back. You were clearly wrong, now you ridiculously write "you proved my point" and then go on as if what I typed wasn't even there. From past experience, this can literally go on forever, there is no point at which you will concede anything or begin to look the slightest bit informed, just agenda-driven.

You could have been a spin guy on Crossfire, you would have fit right in.

1549379228715


You ignored everything I wrote about Russia, Saudi Arabia, terrorism, infrastructure, and oil spills to act as if oil has no part in that at all, focusing solely on the "emissions" part of the argument. You ignored the fact that California's scaledown in offshore drilling will have zero impact of the plastics industry, nor would a thousand other moves like it. You're also ignoring the serious environmental and health aspects of overproduction of cheap plastics, and the fact that we need higher prices in the plastics sector in order to actually embed the true social costs of such overproduction into the product, rather than the current model of the corporation gaining the profits from artificially cheap oil while society pays the major costs (access, spills, transport emissions, manufacture emmissions, and aftermarket waste) throughout.
 
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