NBA's Big 4 (Discussion): Giannis-Lebron-Kawhi-Durant

[Ukbrotha]

The two best from the options are Bron and KD at 1 and 2 and its not debatable. Bron is bron and Yes, people will always have the issue with KD for going to golden state which I still find to be silly. Get over it. Kawhi is elite so he's definitely 3rd. My boy Giannis is not yet on this level. He's a tier below but hopefully he makes that next step soon.

 

[Megadeus]

Once we see KD balling out with the Nets some if you guys will change your minds rather quickly.

The hyperpowered Dubs years left an odd and confusing taste in peoples mouths, yes. But other than Bron, no one is fxcking with him. If you want that top 2 spot you gotta really bogard that shyt from one of them... Klaw and Giannis have yet to do that

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

Pop was the real MVP that series. Really you could have given it to any of the main guys.

Kawhi ended up winning it because he hit his open shots and got the boost from defending LeBron even if he couldn't stop him. Exact same reason Iggy won it the next year. Both of them were 3rd/4th options on their best days, they neither ran the offense nor were the best scorers out of it, but they took advantage of the defensive attention other players got along with good ball movement and ended up sorta being the default option in the end.

Thank God for video...otherwise people will tell you anything

Kawhi made shots where they sagged
Kawhi made shots where they played tight
Kawhi got to the rim
He took it to Bron with no fear when called for
He bothered him on the defensive end as much as you could hope for

He used that experience and went on to be a superstar



Now compare that to this...It seemed The Cavs put less and less effort into rotating on Iggy especially in Cleveland

There are certainly similarities but Kawhi’s carrer trajectory changes the perspective of it

Kawhi shot better & scored more while being in foul trouble the first 2 games

Credit Pop for a guy shooting damn near 60%? That’s some mystical coach!

Hate to be that guy but Mike or Kobe would’ve took it personally that a role player lead the opposition in scoring 3 straight times instead of leaving his fan base to make up silly excuses when the smoke settled

 

[Dwight Howard]

KD continuously came up short until he joined an unbeatable team. He balled out for sure but its just like how a QB can play great when they have great WRs and OL. Plus KD specifically said he didnt want to be a leader or be ‘the guy’ so how can he be the best player in the league when he doesnt even want to be the leader on his own team? KD is a beast scorer but we’ve never seen a team built around him win a title.

You van say everything you said here about bron

Couldnt even make the playoffs out west without another star.​

 

[Dwight Howard]

When you have two of the best shooters in NBA history, 3 of the top defenders in the NBA, and a great passing system around you, you suddenly look better at everything, don't you?

KD was basically chilling every game, just picking his spots while Dray/Iggy/Klay did the heavy lifting on defense, Steph and Dray shared the ballhandling/distribution load and Steph and Klay shared the scoring. It's just not remotely comparable to a situation where someone has to actually carry a team and you see what they're really made of. Even when Steph was off he was still the one commanding double-teams while KD got to feast.

As if KD didnt average 32/7/5 with half-a season of westbrook with zero spacing leading a weak thunder squad to a top seed. The narrative that GS somehow made KD is laughable.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

If you want that top 2 spot you gotta really bogard that shyt from one of them... Klaw and Giannis have yet to do that

Do you blame Hakeem for GP/Kemp not showing up to the big dance in 94?
Duncan for Dirk in 07?
Kobe for Bron not showing up to the party 09 or 10?

While Bron was losing to Joakim & missing the playoffs the world went on and somebody else got busy

I thought the game don’t wait

 

[Shadow King]

Do you blame Hakeem for GP/Kemp not showing up to the big dance in 94?
Duncan for Dirk in 07?
Kobe for Bron not showing up to the party 09 or 10?

While Bron was losing to Joakim & missing the playoffs the world went on and somebody else got busy

I thought the game don’t wait

All of your Example A's were considered better your Example B's at the time in question.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

All of your Example A's were considered better your Example B's at the time in question.

Na

Hakeem was a great universally recognized individual talent who was believed to have underperformed till Rudy T came into the picture. There was a reason that Sonics upset was seen as the biggest in NBA history even to this day. Dream had just as much to prove as GP & Co.

The media had already crowned Bron as the best in the world by 09 so there goes that argument

I hear you on Dirk & Tim tho

 

[Shadow King]

Na

Hakeem was a great universally recognized individual talent who was believed to have underperformed till Rudy T came into the picture. There was a reason that Sonics upset was seen as the biggest in NBA history even to this day. Dream had just as much to prove as GP & Co.

The media had already crowned Bron as the best in the world by 09 so there goes that argument

I hear you on Dirk & Tim tho

Hakeem was still a better player than 94 Kemp or Payton. You're talking about legacy.

The Bron > Kobe sentiment started in 09 but it wasn't the consensus which is why the Finals match up was so anticipated.

 

[MJ Truth]

This season:

• Blue is first place
• Orange is 2nd place
• Red is third place

Kevin Durant's 2019 Season:

Spoiler

26.0 PPG
6.4 RPG
5.9 APG
0.7 SPG
1.1 BPG
88.5 FT%
52.1 FG%
35.3 3PT%

Among the big 4, last year's (GSW) KD would've been

• 3rd in scoring
• 4th in rebounds
• 2nd in assists
• 4th in steals
• 1st in blocks
• 2nd in freethrow %
• 2nd in field goal %
• 2nd in 3pt shooting %

1. We know Giannis is the regular season MVP (word to @Morethan1) but if everyone is healthy, is he the best player out of the big 4? Rank em.
2. How much would you factor their teammates, like KD having all that space to operate with GSW (@Dr. Narcisse )? Put another way, since Giannis probably has the worst team, he may have to work a bit harder come playoff time... but then again, not having a great jump shot also causes you to work harder too, and that's your own fault

Giannis only has the "worst team" in terms of name recognition. But their whole system and team structure is set up in a way for Giannis to dominate. Their spacing is incredible.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

Hakeem was still a better player than 94 Kemp or Payton. You're talking about legacy.

The Bron > Kobe sentiment started in 09 but it wasn't the consensus which is why the Finals match up was so anticipated.

My post said that. Dream was a phenomenal talent unproven as a winner. Him being a great player didn’t put him any higher than GP as a winner in the grand scheme of things. Is Jokic better than Embiid? I’m sure that can be argued if you want but there is nothing by way of postseason success that would differentiate the two. Thats what I mean. Dream & GP both had something to prove. Hakeem wasn’t seen as a once in a lifetime talent like Bron/Jordan where his lack of winning in his youth took away from his best player status

Kawhi took a hapless Raptors squad someplace they never were before and they won it all. As the reigning champion he should have the title especially since Bron’s team underperformed and his Playoff Mode declaration fell flat

Bron had every opportunity to get a talented team to the playoffs in spite of injuries where a berth in itself would be seen as a victory. It didn’t happen.

Yet here we are

We are led to believe that Kawhi has something to prove as if Bron was the reigning champion

As if he hasn’t thoroughly outplayed Bron in head to head matchups this year. Even in The Lakers win Bron wasn’t that great at all.

Yet the way the media celebrated that win you would think Bron went for 40-12-8.

Funny to see

 

[Shadow King]

My post said that. Dream was a phenomenal talent unproven as a winner. Him being a great player didn’t put him any higher than GP as a winner in the grand scheme of things. Is Jokic better than Embiid? I’m sure that can be argued if you want but there is nothing by way of postseason success that would differentiate the two. Thats what I mean. Dream & GP both had something to prove. Hakeem wasn’t seen as a once in a lifetime talent like Bron/Jordan where his lack of winning in his youth took away from his best player status

Kawhi took a hapless Raptors squad someplace they never were before and they won it all. As the reigning champion he should have the title especially since Bron’s team underperformed and his Playoff Mode declaration fell flat

Bron had every opportunity to get a talented team to the playoffs in spite of injuries where a berth in itself would be seen as a victory. It didn’t happen.

Yet here we are

We are led to believe that Kawhi has something to prove as if Bron was the reigning champion

As if he hasn’t thoroughly outplayed Bron in head to head matchups this year. Even in The Lakers win Bron wasn’t that great at all.

Yet the way the media celebrated that win you would think Bron went for 40-12-8.

Funny to see

Bro this thread is about essentially the best 4 players on the planet. Breh you responded to say the bottom of the 4 in his opinion (Giannis and Kawhi) have to overthrow the top 2 (Bron and KD). Kemp and GP were not better than Hakeem let alone top 4 in 94 so their matchup is not a parallel to what the poster you responded to needs to see from Giannis or Kawhi.

Jokic vs Embiid is not as lopsided of an opinion as you think and irrelevant.

As far as Kawhi, reasons that have been stated already are why he's not the consensus #1. I know you believe Kawhi is from other threads but why can't this be said from the jump instead of these devil's advocate type posts?

Bron himself missed 1/3 of the season and was a top 4 seed when his injury happened. I don't want to hear about it was Christmas, the Lakers with healthy Bron don't go from 4th to 11th. Kawhi also did everything you're talking about in the same East LeBron's accolades get downplayed in.

The media made as big of a deal of the Clippers season opener and Christmas wins as the did about the Lakers win. You're just tired of Bron.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

Bro this thread is about essentially the best 4 players on the planet. Breh you responded to say the bottom of the 4 in his opinion (Giannis and Kawhi) have to overthrow the top 2 (Bron and KD). You're just tired of Bron.

Now we’re getting someplace

None of my post mention KD. He was the best player in June in 17/18 & he was rolling before he got hurt against Houston.

There is no argument against him in my view. Sure The Warriors have an abundance of talent but when Klay & Steph played like shyt KD played superhuman. KD won both FMVPs basically for his performances in Cleveland.

My confusion is what has Lebron done so miraculous the past couple of years to be “top 2” when he couldn’t even get his team to the playoffs when he had every opportunity to do so

I just don’t like the bullshyt

 

[Shadow King]

Now we’re getting someplace

None of my post mention KD. He was the best player in June in 17/18 & he was rolling before he got hurt against Houston.

There is no argument against him in my view. Sure The Warriors have an abundance of talent but when Klay & Steph played like shyt KD played superhuman. KD won both FMVPs basically for his performances in Cleveland.

My confusion is what has Lebron done so miraculous the past couple of years to be “top 2” when he couldn’t even get his team to the playoffs when he had every opportunity to do so

I just don’t like the bullshyt

YOUR posts towards me don't say KD but you responded to a poster who by process of elimination said Bron and KD are top 2, here.

Once we see KD balling out with the Nets some if you guys will change your minds rather quickly.

The hyperpowered Dubs years left an odd and confusing taste in peoples mouths, yes. But other than Bron, no one is fxcking with him. If you want that top 2 spot you gotta really bogard that shyt from one of them... Klaw and Giannis have yet to do that

Do you blame Hakeem for GP/Kemp not showing up to the big dance in 94?
Duncan for Dirk in 07?
Kobe for Bron not showing up to the party 09 or 10?

While Bron was losing to Joakim & missing the playoffs the world went on and somebody else got busy

I thought the game don’t wait

And yes we're finally getting somewhere because you're finally coming out and stating your opinion.

The talent in GS was overwhelming, nobody was beating them healthy. And of course an all-time scorer KD would play superhuman when the game plan is to limit Curry and run him off the line. Fastbreak dunks were being sacrificed to stop Curry's transitions 3s. That's unparalleled. Any one of these 4 players would look just as video-game-like.

How can LeBron have "every opportunity" to get his his already injured team in the playoffs when he missed 27 games himself? Explain.

 

[malbaker86]

Once we see KD balling out with the Nets some if you guys will change your minds rather quickly.

The hyperpowered Dubs years left an odd and confusing taste in peoples mouths, yes. But other than Bron, no one is fxcking with him. If you want that top 2 spot you gotta really bogard that shyt from one of them... Klaw and Giannis have yet to do that

Kawhi last year