Nas - Magic 2 (Discussion thread)

[HNIC973]

The same "Illmatic" fans you nikkaz make fun u acting like

 

[JustCKing]

Truth. People have kinda lost their minds on Hit-Boy since these Nas albums dropped.

You could've put Nas with anyone with 4 albums, and the online fans would've gone crazy for them. In all honesty, Hit's always been an average producer. There's nothing about his work that's ever been mind-blowing. What we like, is that he's working with Nas. But the Nas stans will definitely overrate dude just because of that.

Anyone even putting Hit in the same sentence with ALC is out of their damn mind.

I don't really see anyone overrating HitBoy. I really haven't seen Hitboy being elevated into GOAT status just based on his output with Nas.

I get people don't like his sound, but he's not just some rinky dink producer who got lucky. Hitboy is actually versatile and there's only a handful of producers who could run the gamut of different styles that HitBoy has on Nas albums and still have the album sound cohesive. We got "Hood2Hood" and "Get Light" on the same album as "Thun" and "Legit". The switch on "WTF SMH" is seamless, but it could be two different songs.

 

[qnsfinest]

Alc or hit boy, don’t matter. Nas about about to drop another classic and lap his competition even further.

But what we not gonna do is disrespect Alc or Hit. Both dope, but alchemist is one of the goats, top 5 all time maybe.

Saying that doesn’t change that hit gave Nas some absolute classics and they 4 for 4 with 2 being straight classics and 2 borderline.

Whether its alc or hit on the next joint, we know we getting another banger.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

As for HB vs Alc, I actually like what one of the Dead End dudes said during the KD3 review - Alc would make a dope Nas sounding album, whereas Hitboy kind of created 4 different sounding albums that have Nas rapping over trap and drill and soul etc.

I fukks with both, but HB did not just drop a fukking 4peat with Esco for some of the slander in here.

 

[Soymuscle Mike]

There's a very large amount of people who would be willing to argue that he's currently in his prime.

I respect Alc and Muggs (who is in my top 10, close to 5) too much to talk about it a lot....but I actually do think they both found a formula (find abstract Eastern European music, sample/loop it, slow it down, call it a day) that is, to me, significantly inferior to their earlier work.

Muggs especially has lost all of his innovation and is banking on samey-sounding albums with these underground cats that they then bank off with random color splattered vinyls and Obi-stripped cassette tapes and hoodies etc etc. Alc isn't far off but he'll drop projects like the Roc Marci album (which wasn't my favorite) that show me glimpses of his creative/innovative self.

Both vets/legends and shyt it's working for them so more power to them - but to me their work has become detivative (and lowkey Alc was always derivative, but he was just too dope to give a fukk about it).

Whoever produces Griselda shyt is derivative to the third degree, I don't respect that shyt at all.

Edit: to be clear, HB doesn't have his own sound either. He falls in that early Alc camp to me, his production is derivative but for the Nas albums it works.

 

[spliz]

nikkas need to stop worrying about the production credits and listen to the damn music. Nas has proven time and time again production credits don’t tell the whole story.

 

[Ziggiy]

You are way too lost in the Nas stan sauce to have this conversation rationally, holy fukk. Don't speak to me on this type of level over a goddamn choice of producers, you're sounding like a straight clown now.

I'd prefer Alc over Hit-Boy because I prefer his production, PERIOD. All this other shyt is bizarre fanfiction on your part.

nikka you STILL cannot name one b tier producer whose produced classic songs, hit songs, award winning songs, on classic albums with a MULTITUDE of different legendary artists. That was the crux of our debate. YOU put it out there that Hit Boy was a b tier producer, which is something that is easily disproven and I called you on your bullshyt. Simple

I’m not comparing Al to HitBoy tho. I fukk with ALL of Nas’ and HitBoy shyt. And outside of Nas. And some HUGE records Hit has done. Al has been FAR more important to the hip hop landscape from 2000 up until now. Alotta nikkas was hating on the fact that Hit was doing the album for Nas. I was one of the nikkas who had faith in it. Alotta nikkas was shytting on the KD1 track listing and didn’t even believe it was real. Including u. I was one of the FEW nikkas on here that flat out said the shyt was real. This is not a Hit Boy vs Al thing. But u dead ass tried to diminish Al as a producer and his accomplishments to his skin color and that just wasn’t a fair statement. U may not be a big fan of his stuff. But that nikka shyt has been a big part of my music listening for over 20 years now. I can run down all the classic tracks he’s done even in the mixtape tape era when he was giving shyt like Say Yes to Saigon or when he had everyone from Dipset to Lloyd Banks rapping over the Backwards beat he blessed Mobb Deep with. Son deserves every bit of respect he gets.

Lets get one thing straight, I NEVER shytted on Hit Boy or the concept of Hit Boy producing Nas albums. NEVER. I was one of the few who knew Hit Boy was going to give Nas heat and never doubted the pairing for a second (and I have the posts to prove it) I didn’t believe in the initial tracklisting because it didn’t fit Nas established formula of having minimal features on his albums but that in no way shape or fashion meant I doubted Hit Boy or his abilities. I been fukking with Hit Boy since I first heard Asap’s 1 Train and looked up who produced it. I ALWAYS trust in who Nas chooses to produce for him no matter who it is.

How I feel about Alchemist is how I feel about Alchemist. It is what it is. But again, lessening Hit Boy and HIS accomplishments to prop up Alchemist shouldn’t be tolerated. Hit Boy has earned HIS place as a Top Tier producer and more than proved his versatility and talent with work he’s done, not only with invigorating Nas, but his work with Benny and Big Sean over the past 4 years. Certain posters really wanted to act like switching Hit Boy with Alc over the last 4 years would somehow have magically equated to better crafted music and thats simply as asinine and insane as saying he should still be working with the Illmatic lineup exclusively. ALL of that talk is downright retarded and it has ZERO basis in reality with what we’ve seen from both Hit and Alc in the last half decade.

 

[Budda]

Alchemist is a better rap producer than Hit Boy that shouldn’t even be an argument, wtf.

 

[Life is Good]

You know what they say “ If someone continues to repeat something long enough eventually they will convince the masses that it’s true.” The fact that people are still on this forum since Wednesday arguing about Hitboy vs other producers is wild. When in reality no one’s opinion even matters besides Nasir Jones. Any logical person would have abandoned ship but I guess logical thinking is not that common anymore.

 

[DontEemTry]

The same "Illmatic" fans you nikkaz make fun u acting like

That's the irony

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

I respect Alc and Muggs (who is in my top 10, close to 5) too much to talk about it a lot....but I actually do think they both found a formula (find abstract Eastern European music, sample/loop it, slow it down, call it a day) that is, to me, significantly inferior to their earlier work.

Muggs especially has lost all of his innovation and is banking on samey-sounding albums with these underground cats that they then bank off with random color splattered vinyls and Obi-stripped cassette tapes and hoodies etc etc. Alc isn't far off but he'll drop projects like the Roc Marci album (which wasn't my favorite) that show me glimpses of his creative/innovative self.

Both vets/legends and shyt it's working for them so more power to them - but to me their work has become detivative (and lowkey Alc was always derivative, but he was just too dope to give a fukk about it).

Whoever produces Griselda shyt is derivative to the third degree, I don't respect that shyt at all.

Edit: to be clear, HB doesn't have his own sound either. He falls in that early Alc camp to me, his production is derivative but for the Nas albums it works.

Muggs, yeah, but Alchemist? Definitely not. You sound like you have no idea what you're talking about. If you've been listening to him at all in the last few years you'd know that he has completely changed his sound up and has some insane new techniques he uses that no one else at his level is doing. He's been experimenting like crazy, which is exactly why he's improved so much. He's got tons of joints where he doesn't even sample, and some where he is basically making a collage out of tons of different chops from all different places and putting it together into something cohesive. Every beat is different.

The Elephant Man joint is just par for the course for him. All his projects have been on that wave since like Covert Coup back in 2011. No one is making beats like Alchemist right now. Find me something that sounds like Double Hockey Sticks, Brickmile To Montana or Frank Lucas.

Tbh he doesn't even have a consistent sound anymore because he experiments so much.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

nikka you STILL cannot name one b tier producer whose produced classic songs, hit songs, award winning songs, on classic albums with a MULTITUDE of different legendary artists. That was the crux of our debate. YOU put it out there that Hit Boy was a b tier producer, which is something that is easily disproven and I called you on your bullshyt. Simple






Lets get one thing straight, I NEVER shytted on Hit Boy or the concept of Hit Boy producing Nas albums. NEVER. I was one of the few who knew Hit Boy was going to give Nas heat and never doubted the pairing for a second (and I have the posts to prove it) I didn’t believe in the initial tracklisting because it didn’t fit Nas established formula of having minimal features on his albums but that in no way shape or fashion meant I doubted Hit Boy or his abilities. I been fukking with Hit Boy since I first heard Asap’s 1 Train and looked up who produced it. I ALWAYS trust in who Nas chooses to produce for him no matter who it is.

How I feel about Alchemist is how I feel about Alchemist. It is what it is. But again, lessening Hit Boy and HIS accomplishments to prop up Alchemist shouldn’t be tolerated. Hit Boy has earned HIS place as a Top Tier producer and more than proved his versatility and talent with work he’s done, not only with invigorating Nas, but his work with Benny and Big Sean over the past 4 years. Certain posters really wanted to act like switching Hit Boy with Alc over the last 4 years would somehow have magically equated to better crafted music and thats simply as asinine and insane as saying he should still be working with the Illmatic lineup exclusively. ALL of that talk is downright retarded and it has ZERO basis in reality with what we’ve seen from both Hit and Alc in the last half decade.

Swizz Beatz, Eminem, Ron Browz, EZ Elpee, Digga, Irv Gotti, etc, etc, etc ,etc.... Hitboy is better than all of them, but it's not difficult to find B tier producers with those qualifications.

That entire last paragraph must be projection. You're completely backwards on everything there. You're the one lessening Alc and his accomplishments to prop up Hitboy. Switching from Hitboy to Alchemist would obviously have resulted in better crafted music because Alchemist is one of the all time greats, that's not even a question. There is zero basis in reality that Hitboy has had a better output than Alc in the last half decade, and implying otherwise is a joke. You can feel however you feel about Alchemist, but understand you're on an island, and no matter how much you try to shyt on Alc to prop up Hitboy, it's not going to change the consensus. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you need to relax and understand most people do not agree with your wild takes.

I fukk with Hitboy, but be serious.

 

[JustCKing]

Swizz Beatz, Eminem, Ron Browz, EZ Elpee, Digga, Irv Gotti, etc, etc, etc ,etc.... Hitboy is better than all of them, but it's not difficult to find B tier producers with those qualifications.

That entire last paragraph must be projection. You're completely backwards on everything there. You're the one lessening Alc and his accomplishments to prop up Hitboy. Switching from Hitboy to Alchemist would obviously have resulted in better crafted music because Alchemist is one of the all time greats, that's not even a question. There is zero basis in reality that Hitboy has had a better output than Alc in the last half decade, and implying otherwise is a joke. You can feel however you feel about Alchemist, but understand you're on an island, and no matter how much you try to shyt on Alc to prop up Hitboy, it's not going to change the consensus. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but you need to relax and understand most people do not agree with your wild takes.

I fukk with Hitboy, but be serious.

This is just wrong on so many levels. Dr. Dre is widely considered GOAT producer in Hip Hop. "Nas Is Coming" is by NO MEANS a classic song. Q Tip is another GOAT and while "One Love" is CLASSIC, "American Way" is one of Nas's lesser joints. Kanye is one of the GOATs and people called Nasir a classic before even one note of it was heard, but now it ranks as a bottom tier Nas album.

Your post is showing that name association means more than the actual music to a lot of you and that is a problem. It not only assumes that people feel the same way about ALC, but assumes that Nas and ALC would automatically be better than Nas and Hit just because.

 

[JustCKing]

Ya'll are really overrating Alchemist here and I don't know if its to downplay Hit or whatever. This has gotten ridiculous at this point.

 

[LOST IN THE SAUCE]

This is just wrong on so many levels. Dr. Dre is widely considered GOAT producer in Hip Hop. "Nas Is Coming" is by NO MEANS a classic song. Q Tip is another GOAT and while "One Love" is CLASSIC, "American Way" is one of Nas's lesser joints. Kanye is one of the GOATs and people called Nasir a classic before even one note of it was heard, but now it ranks as a bottom tier Nas album.

Your post is showing that name association means more than the actual music to a lot of you and that is a problem. It not only assumes that people feel the same way about ALC, but assumes that Nas and ALC would automatically be better than Nas and Hit just because.

We're talking albums, not one offs. Alc is in his (arguable) prime and hasn't put out a single dud in more than a decade, but you think he's going to drop the ball with Nas, an artist he already has chemistry with? Why? How does that make sense? He's dropping an album every 3 to 6 months that are consistently up there with the best produced projects in that year.

Don't take my word for it, feel free to google who the greatest producers of all time are and good luck finding a list that doesn't mention his name up there beside RZA, Preemo, Dre etc.

Same thing I said to the other guy, you're entitled to your opinion, but you need to realize it's against the consensus, and that's perfectly fine. You feel different than most people do, and that's still valid. You do not need to put down Alc to prop up Hitboy, though. It's weirdo behavior.