My Posse's On Broadway: Official NY Knicks 2016-2017 Season Thread

[storyteller]

Your excuses are tiring with the except of his crossover to a jumpshot Kp hasn't displayed a one on one game this season period. He has been a dissappoint in ISO matchups the WHOLE SEASON.

KP has had one game against Detroit where he looked like a franchise player every other game he has had he looks like Ryan Anderson sorry that ain't a franchise player and def not a player to run the offense thru he plays without Rose and Melo on average for like 11 mins a game and has played in numerous games where he doesn't even get a shot up.

Breh, I'm saying that he's got the offense running through him at time in that quote; not that he should have it run through him more. It's me disagreeing with the "the Knicks aren't giving him opportunities" narrative which is BS. He's getting opportunities and not capitalizing right now, I say because of tired legs. You want to say it's because he ain't a franchise player, that's yours to hang onto, but we're in agreement that he's getting plenty of touches.

 

[The War Report]

Been saying derrick rose is an awful/overrated pg for YEARS was called troll/cac/fraud/c00n by his coli contingent of groupies(most aren't real bulls fans). They can never handle the truth about dude,it's always excuses or wait til he gets healthy or blame his shortcomings on thibs/jimmy/noah/garpax.

reading a completely different fan base who doesn't blindly dikkride rose cuz he's from chicago say the same things feels vindicating

and rose didn't have a family emergency he was gonna quit playing basketball that's why he went awol, didn't answer the calls and needed "space" cuz he couldn't handle getting benched for an un drafted partridge family looking whiteboy.

 

[DPresidential]

 

[ikbm]

Breh, I'm saying that he's got the offense running through him at time in that quote; not that he should have it run through him more. It's me disagreeing with the "the Knicks aren't giving him opportunities" narrative which is BS. He's getting opportunities and not capitalizing right now, I say because of tired legs. You want to say it's because he ain't a franchise player, that's yours to hang onto, but we're in agreement that he's getting plenty of touches.

i dont think he's gassed or tired....he had his most efficient game of the season two games ago
i just think he's very perimeter oriented because of how the offense is set up and built...so if he's not getting easy layups or transition buckets...he will take contested jumpers more often than not...also he ONLY took 10 shots...he became timid and the team didnt look for him as much...cause he wasnt hot.
he attemped a crossover jumpshot on embiid earlier in the game...and just missed
this is the highest level of basketball...even the absolute best jump shooters...(even curry)....if all they take is contested jumpers they wont shoot well...
curry gets a lot of layups in that offense...cause of constant movement...back cuts..and he's good at contact layups.
they dont try to get our premier talent easy shots....and there are a myriad of ways to set him up to.
i see other teams do it.. night in and night out.
kristap's opportunities... are iso contest shots in the midpost...and even with him...they arent the most efficient high percentage look.
the best teams dont rely on those looks consistently. not anymore...this isnt the 90s.

 

[Steezy]

 

[RickyGQ]

So, looking at all of the prospects the tankers posted...

I really like De'Aaron Fox.

How as he as a shooter? I only saw him once but he gave Lonzo Ball fits on defense.

 

[DPresidential]

How as he as a shooter? I only saw him once but he gave Lonzo Ball fits on defense.

Disclaimer- I don't watch college ball.

I'm going off Draft Express vids.

Apparently not great on the outside shot. Streaky shooter.

 

[Malta]

He's second on the team in attempts, getting minutes as a secondary option and first option with the bench unit and his usage rate is above 24%. And he's looking gassed with an achilles problem. Idk about mid-post complaints either, the Knicks have been feeding KP elbow post ups all season off high screens with Rose when the switch is forced (which teams do frequently because KP can't take advantage of it). His recent touches have dipped but I'd blame the double teams he's facing lately more than anything, rewatch the second quarter from the other night and you'll see KP get fed post mismatches for plenty of possessions. Dude probably needs a couple of weeks off to get his legs back, this looks like the way he faded last season.

I don't care about how many total shots he's getting, I'm more concerned with where those shots are coming from and what he's being asked to do, and what he's being allowed to do. Again, to contrast with Embiid, almost 75% of Kristaps shots are assisted, Embiid is at 58%, that alone tells you he's being used almost exclusively as a finisher. He's not a post player, asking him to post up guys is stupid right now, where are the post touches where he can isolate and faceup and use his dribble to attack? Stop trying to get smaller guys on him, he is at his best when he can attack other big men. There is nothing that prevents him from being used more as a cutter, or allowing him to play like Embiid, their skillsets are very similar, Embiid is stronger but he doesn't have his legs yet so he uses the faceup out of the post a lot.

As far as not bad enough to get top 5 picks therefore it's not proper tanking, they just blew a 10 point lead with 2 mins left to the Sixers...they can get a top 5 pick. And I was speaking moreso on the fact that they played hard for the most part, not a season long generality. You want them to lose the game without quitting, that was my point. In terms of getting minutes for the young guys to develop, I've been asking for that all damned season but it looks like the vets are gonna get their minutes unless we can unload them...which I don't think we can. KOQ and Lee could be moved; Rose maybe but salary matching is a problem; after that, whose eating Lance or Noah's contract? Melo has to waive the NTC plus match salaries, so that's a complicated one too. I wouldn't waste picks to dump those cats (just bench 'em), so I think we're stuck with this roster. But again, the way they're playing is bad enough to get a top 5 pick right now and I don't think they get better than bottom 10 unless something shifts (that should be range to get one of the PG's I hope).

The Sixers aren't that bad of a team, they don't play Embiid on back to backs and his minutes restriction has lost them a couple games, if they did their record would be much better than it is. The Knicks aren't tanking, and the product you put on the floor is getting in the way of Kristaps development now. The Knicks are bad, but they will win some games here and there, the teams at the bottom of the league are even worse and have more incentive not to compete.

 

[Real N Quotes]

As digusted as Im am in the recent losing streak...I still have faith it will build character and strengthen us down the stretch. Melo is Melo, KP is playing hurt, Rose is coming back from being emotionally flustered, Noah getting his grove back, and Hornecek is getting used to dealling with the different personalites.

 

[storyteller]

i dont think he's gassed or tired....he had his most efficient game of the season two games ago
i just think he's very perimeter oriented because of how the offense is set up and built...so if he's not getting easy layups or transition buckets...he will take contested jumpers more often than not...also he ONLY took 10 shots...he became timid and the team didnt look for him as much...cause he wasnt hot.
he attemped a crossover jumpshot on embiid earlier in the game...and just missed
this is the highest level of basketball...even the absolute best jump shooters...(even curry)....if all they take is contested jumpers they wont shoot well...
curry gets a lot of layups in that offense...cause of constant movement...back cuts..and he's good at contact layups.
they dont try to get our premier talent easy shots....and there are a myriad of ways to set him up to.
i see other teams do it.. night in and night out.
kristap's opportunities... are iso contest shots in the midpost...and even with him...they arent the most efficient high percentage look.
the best teams dont rely on those looks consistently. not anymore...this isnt the 90s.

I agree with most of this but I put more blame on KP for not getting easy shots. I think we can all acknowledge that when he gets a switch with a guard on him, he gets the ball in the midpost frequently. That he's settling for contested jumpers from there is a problem, but I blame him. He settles way to often for a single dribble, turn around jumper with a fade away. He also steps back after most of the picks he sets which I don't really mind, but it means he's taking extra long jumpers instead of diving to the basket for what could be those easy lay-ups or dunks (for a guy his size, I feel like that'll quickly increase his FTA's moreso than anything).

You're dead on that a lot of his opportunities are contested iso's, but I think he settles because he's too comfortable trying to shoot over defenders when he has a pretty formidable cross over for a dude so big. The doubles have also turned him timid though, the 5 TO game being a good example. He gets a bit flustered and rushes his moves. This is all young player stuff mind you, I ain't upset or downgrading his prospect status. He'll pick up more as he gets stronger and gains confidence in his arsenal.

Also, I think it's worth noting that he's getting the second most touches per game behind Rose (and touches always skews towards the primary ball handler). Melo's fourth on the list (Rose, KP, Jennings ahead). Melo is confident waving dudes off and going after guys to his own detriment at times. KP would do well to take a few of those chances too, especially when a bigger, plodding defender tries to front him on the perimeter (those opening touches where they bring the ball up one side, swing to a big who then swings to the second guard being a prime spot). KP has the touches and if you look at where he's getting touches, he's top three in touches at key spots on the floor (post-ups, isolations, etc.); so there are opportunities if he chooses to attack. I really think he did assert himself more often earlier, he's relegated to more catch and shoots or turn around jumpers now; but look at the earlier portion of the season and I really think you'll catch a different player.

 

[Cory MBA]

 

[storyteller]

I don't care about how many total shots he's getting, I'm more concerned with where those shots are coming from and what he's being asked to do, and what he's being allowed to do. Again, to contrast with Embiid, almost 75% of Kristaps shots are assisted, Embiid is at 58%, that alone tells you he's being used almost exclusively as a finisher. He's not a post player, asking him to post up guys is stupid right now, where are the post touches where he can isolate and faceup and use his dribble to attack? Stop trying to get smaller guys on him, he is at his best when he can attack other big men. There is nothing that prevents him from being used more as a cutter, or allowing him to play like Embiid, their skillsets are very similar, Embiid is stronger but he doesn't have his legs yet so he uses the faceup out of the post a lot.

I co-sign all of this, that's on coaching staff to me. I have a serious problem with them going repeatedly to him on those Guard switches for the entirety of the second quarter a game ago; it's a confidence killer at this point. It hurts that he barely gets any burn at the 5 as well, where he gets serious mismatches and his face up will work better. The other thing is his comfort zones are where teams double him now, so it's taking away his best ways to attack (fairly recent development).

The Sixers aren't that bad of a team, they don't play Embiid on back to backs and his minutes restriction has lost them a couple games, if they did their record would be much better than it is. The Knicks aren't tanking, and the product you put on the floor is getting in the way of Kristaps development now. The Knicks are bad, but they will win some games here and there, the teams at the bottom of the league are even worse and have more incentive not to compete.

I think calling it tanking or just sucking is more or less semantics. Whether they lose on purpose or not, they're not good enough to win enough games to break out of the bottom ten barring a shift. The bottom five will be tough to crack (unless certain players get hurt), but bottom ten seems like no problem. Especially if they start to give Willy, Kuz and Baker more minutes over the vets. Those guys can develop (Kuz being older but needing NBA experience), will play hard, but I don't think they'll win more games for the Knicks. But just to reiterate, the problem I see is that the guys ahead of those three are gonna be hard to move with the exception of KOQ and MAYBE Rose if some team falls for his raw stats and highlight reel. So unless Hornacek packs it in and pushes for effort (which could turn the locker room); this is a rock and a hard place. If they manage to lose tonight to the depleted Bulls, the tank will keep looking better and better at least in terms of getting a top ten pick.

 

[ikbm]

I agree with most of this but I put more blame on KP for not getting easy shots. I think we can all acknowledge that when he gets a switch with a guard on him, he gets the ball in the midpost frequently. That he's settling for contested jumpers from there is a problem, but I blame him. He settles way to often for a single dribble, turn around jumper with a fade away. He also steps back after most of the picks he sets which I don't really mind, but it means he's taking extra long jumpers instead of diving to the basket for what could be those easy lay-ups or dunks (for a guy his size, I feel like that'll quickly increase his FTA's moreso than anything).

You're dead on that a lot of his opportunities are contested iso's, but I think he settles because he's too comfortable trying to shoot over defenders when he has a pretty formidable cross over for a dude so big. The doubles have also turned him timid though, the 5 TO game being a good example. He gets a bit flustered and rushes his moves. This is all young player stuff mind you, I ain't upset or downgrading his prospect status. He'll pick up more as he gets stronger and gains confidence in his arsenal.

Also, I think it's worth noting that he's getting the second most touches per game behind Rose (and touches always skews towards the primary ball handler). Melo's fourth on the list (Rose, KP, Jennings ahead). Melo is confident waving dudes off and going after guys to his own detriment at times. KP would do well to take a few of those chances too, especially when a bigger, plodding defender tries to front him on the perimeter (those opening touches where they bring the ball up one side, swing to a big who then swings to the second guard being a prime spot). KP has the touches and if you look at where he's getting touches, he's top three in touches at key spots on the floor (post-ups, isolations, etc.); so there are opportunities if he chooses to attack. I really think he did assert himself more often earlier, he's relegated to more catch and shoots or turn around jumpers now; but look at the earlier portion of the season and I really think you'll catch a different player.

I can agree...a lot of the time he just settles...but the coaches need to start drawing up plays that give KP no option but to abuse his height...more alleys...more plays that can utilize one of noahs skills (interior passing).
kp and noah are skilled big men...there are little reasons as to why they dont pass to each other around the rim....most teams simply dont have the length to defend that.
kp also needs a few more traditional big man moves
he needs just a basic drop step he can utilize....the tie in with a drop step and his ability to shoot will keep defenders honest.
as he gets stronger...he'll get a better back to the basket game...but even at his slender frame...a drop step would get him FTAs
but he's a second year player...the coaching staff should design plays that will fit his skill and abilities....and not let a second year player fall into his own habits.

 

[Shogun]

If y'all want, we can take Larry Melo for Bazemore

Yall can have him for free

 

[storyteller]

I can agree...a lot of the time he just settles...but the coaches need to start drawing up plays that give KP no option but to abuse his height...more alleys...more plays that can utilize one of noahs skills (interior passing).
kp and noah are skilled big men...there are little reasons as to why they dont pass to each other around the rim....most teams simply dont have the length to defend that.
kp also needs a few more traditional big man moves
he needs just a basic drop step he can utilize....the tie in with a drop step and his ability to shoot will keep defenders honest.
as he gets stronger...he'll get a better back to the basket game...but even at his slender frame...a drop step would get him FTAs
but he's a second year player...the coaching staff should design plays that will fit his skill and abilities....and not let a second year player fall into his own habits.

100% co-sign to all of this fam.