My Posse's On Broadway: Official NY Knicks 2016-2017 Season Thread

[I.V.]

My thinking is this, if you're going to lose years of someone's career do it at the start and package it as your young player(s) developing. Who wants to see the Knicks have to rebuild when Porzingis is 24 years old and it'll take another 3-4 years to get the right talent around him, it's just a waste.

If you draft generational players, make sure you suck for the first 2 years so you can get them some wingmen.

I think we agree. At the very least, if you're not gonna tank, focus your acquisitions on young value talent, ex: if you're gonna sign a center -- sign Biyombo over Joakim. Better value, and geared toward the future.

Why isn't sean kilpatrick on the knicks, instead of Sasha Vujacic? Or Chason Randle? Why are they passing up the opportunity to buy second round picks that become available? That kind of stuff.

I think once they had KP, once they realized what kind of talent he was... it probably made more sense to do whatever it took to pair him with one or two other young potential-filled players.

Now they're in that dangerous position: Not bad enough to get high lottery picks, not good enough to compete for a title in any way shape or form.

They're next few moves will be critical.

 

[Malta]

I think we agree. At the very least, if you're not gonna tank, focus your acquisitions on young value talent, ex: if you're gonna sign a center -- sign Biyombo over Joakim. Better value, and geared toward the future.

Why isn't sean kilpatrick on the knicks, instead of Sasha Vujacic? Or Chason Randle? Why are they passing up the opportunity to buy second round picks that become available? That kind of stuff.

I think once they had KP, once they realized what kind of talent he was... it probably made more sense to do whatever it took to pair him with one or two other young potential-filled players.

Now they're in that dangerous position: Not bad enough to get high lottery picks, not good enough to compete for a title in any way shape or form.

They're next few moves will be critical.

I want to see the Knicks do well, they have one of the premier young talents in the league and I never ever want to see those type of players get stuck in bad positions cause of poor moves. I'm critical of all the teams with the young players like that, hell I think the Bucks should punt this season and get a draft pick out of it, flirt with the playoffs but don't make them


Like you said, where are the value deals, the Noah signing was horrific and these very same cats were laughing at me when I was saying Biyombo would be the much better get.

 

[I.V.]

@I.V. Breh,
My point is a rebuild or a deconstruction of the team(i.e trading away Shump/JR) is not necessarily the same thing as having on your itinerary: "Goal 1, lose as many games as possible."

And this is where we fundamentally disagree. You FEEL differently about those two situations. But they are the same thing. You are simply attributing more value to intangibles.

I hate to do this to you, but you sound like dikkie v evaluating white point guards from duke right now. Holding on to sticktoittiveness, grit, and heart. That deconstruction is a captain on the floor, it just wants it more. It's so cerebral!

If you design a team to lose, the only thing that truly ends up matter is what you get in exchange for it. By this definition, it sounds like you'd rather be a nets fan right now, than a 76ers fan. And maybe that's true.

But we can both agree that the 76ers are in a much better place.

 

[DPresidential]

@I.V. A Knicks chip will change my life no more than my favorite character on Stranger Things to be the victorious one at the end of the show...

Either way, I want the time I spend watching it to not be a waste of my time. Simply, I am a basketball, as entertainment, fan. I have a vested interest in wanting magical seasons like the 99 playoffs.

Honestly, I'd rather get my money's worth by being at the edge of my seat as many games as I can before my eyesight goes than anything else, honestly.

Like I said to Malta, I'm just a different type of fan that just wants to watch some fun games and hope my team wins so I could talk shyt until the next year.

I haven't seen enough return from the teams that are tanking that shows me they definitely will give me that. Is tanking a dyed in the wool philosophy? Or just a recent exploit of the NBA system?

Either way, I'll debate about the X & Os but w/ tanking, I'll admit that I won't be able to provide the expected back and forth that we think a rational and educated basketball guy will provide.




Okay...

Next game is tomorrow?

Go Knicks.

 

[DPresidential]

Okay...

Next game is tomorrow?

Go Knicks.

 

[Liquid]

The second round exits are gonna be amazing to watch.

b-b-but they will be competitive games!

Those boys will show heart losing in 5!

 

[Liquid]

No, he doesn't. Rose does not create nearly as many opportunities for KP as melo does.

?

Rose driving and kicking out alone creates more opportunities with the ball moving around.

 

[ogc163]

@I.V. Breh,

My point is a rebuild or a deconstruction of the team(i.e trading away Shump/JR) is not necessarily the same thing as having on your itinerary: "Goal 1, lose as many games as possible."

Knicks management knew the team, as constructed, would still lose these games regardless of how much effort. It's like the building is burning and the only option left for you is to salvage what is undamaged and wait till the flames run out of oxygen.

That's markedly different than everyone seeming to be on board to ensure a team be the worst of the worst. <-- This is something that seems to be an actual philosophy that I've constantly been against.

Looking at it on paper, I would not change the Knicks trajectory for Philly's as we both stand on Dec 27 2016.

I get the idea of tanking. More power to people who want to intentionally do it. I'd rather, as a fan, root for my team and the GM either listen to the tankers or not, and I benefit from always rooting for my team to win tonight.

Very good points, though. My thing is... the vitriol thrown at Knicks fans for being too stupid to acknowledge the benefits of tanking are no where to be found when it comes to brehs who are too stupid to realize what a NTC means w/ respect to the ease of moving Melo and are too ignorant to acknowledge the Jerian Grant acquisition(at the time it was very smart), the J. Holiday acquisition(Bulls are kicking themselves for allowing him as part of package), the Hernangomez acquisition, O'Quinn & Kuzminskas.

Brehs come into this thread constantly ignoring the above mentioned points while claiming the ineptitude of our 2015 & beyond moves. Yet, the unsurprising stance of Anti-tank Knick fans seems to be the rally call of reason... That's bizarre to me.


-----------------

Also, we really aren't laughing at the Wolves or Philly. This is full Coli banter but, breh, this is a fukking Knicks thread where outside Coli experts want to troll the team.

I guarantee if Knicks went full tank mode... many of the same brehs would look at our squad w/ Embiid, Noel, and Okafor and say we are fukking "typical Knicks can't even tank right" ebcause we saturated a position.

If we were the Wolves and brought in Thibs.. it would be "They really thought they'd make noise w/ projects! FOH Typical Knicks delusions."

Or nah?

The bolded has become a weird but prevalent talking point amongst some of you on here. I think most critics of the current paradigm have to give props on Hernangomez and Kuz, BUT what I will not do is

1. Hype them up to point where I think either can serve as the high ceiling partner for KP in the future (and there was the post on HG a couple pages back that showcases that thought is actually in the air) 2. Serve as a precedent for evidence that focusing on late round picks can actually move the needle and vault the Knicks into contenders. The second point really irks me because focusing mainly on late round picks to rebuild on the fly is riskier than tanking outright, and the status quo fans always love talking about probabilities being in their stance's favor for not going the lottery route.

 

[I.V.]

?
Rose driving and kicking out alone creates more opportunities with the ball moving around.

He does not actually create that much movement, he specifically does not consistently look to create/work with Porzingis.
And Melo kicking it out of the post, and having it swung to the weakside does more for KP than Rose.

Melo also consistently draws the best defender, allowing Porzingis to work away from the Kawhi's and other combo wing/forward defenders.

Honestly, if you watch them play, he KP gets more opportunities with Jennings on the floor. And the numbers back it up.

 

[DPresidential]

The bolded has become a weird but prevalent talking point amongst some of you on here. I think most critics of the current paradigm have to give props on Hernangomez and Kuz, .

Breh...much like you feel you need to fight the good fight against delusional Knicks fans, brehs feel compelled to fight the good fight because your statement here underlies the issue.

The critics who do acknowledge what you said are far and few in between. They literally speak out of their ass about a roster they really don't know about at all.

 

[ISO]

Imma stop you here, it's not about "tanking" -- it is about building a stable of young, top-tier talent. The best way to do that is through the draft. The best way to give yourself the opportunity to grab the most talented players, is to have the highest pick. That is math. It is not up for debate.

The reason the Bucks are used, is because they have a stable of young talent, that has been built through the draft. They kept their picks, and they made good decisions, and they were blessed with an INCREDIBLE talent among those picks, in Giannis. They have paired him with Jabari Parker -- and have filled out the roster with other young draft picks and value signings.

Exactly. We are in a position to do that over the upcoming years. '17 Draft is supposed to be deep. I think we can find talent in the mid-to-late first round and second round. I think we have excellent overseas scouting and a strong D-League program. Two of Milwaukee's best players were taken 15th and 39th overall.

We talking about the same Kawhi most of you wouldn't have traded Melo for 2 years ago?


All those teams were rebuilding or and had the time and patience to develop those players, yall are on Melo's schedule right now. The Jerian Grant trade was I mean the Wizards obviously picked him for yall, why not Rondae Hollis? Because Jerian was viewed as the more ready made prospect, while you have to wait on RHJ.

The teams you're citing all had the luxury to take guys and wait on them to develop, does patience really sound like a part of the Knicks plans?

PG was a position of need, our starting PG was Jose Calderon.

 

[Malta]

PG was a position of need, our starting PG was Jose Calderon.

Never draft for need breh.

 

[Trip]

The bolded has become a weird but prevalent talking point amongst some of you on here. I think most critics of the current paradigm have to give props on Hernangomez and Kuz, BUT what I will not do is

1. Hype them up to point where I think either can serve as the high ceiling partner for KP in the future (and there was the post on HG a couple pages back that showcases that thought is actually in the air) 2. Serve as a precedent for evidence that focusing on late round picks can actually move the needle and vault the Knicks into contenders. The second point really irks me because focusing mainly on late round picks to rebuild on the fly is riskier than tanking outright, and the status quo fans always love talking about probabilities being in their stance's favor for not going the lottery route.

Anointing KP the future this early is premature. At this point, what does he do differently than Melo? Right now he's an inefficient outside shooter. I want him to be the guy...but...you gotta give us more at 7 feet than floating around the perimeter.

 

[ikbm]

Anointing KP the future this early is premature. At this point, what does he do differently than Melo? Right now he's an inefficient outside shooter. I want him to be the guy...but...you gotta give us more at 7 feet than floating around the perimeter.

SHUTUP SHUTUP SHUTUP SHUTUP
PLEASE SHUTUP
NO ONE ENTERTAIN THIS SILLY ASS POST PLEASE.

 

[Malta]

Anointing KP the future this early is premature. At this point, what does he do differently than Melo? Right now he's an inefficient outside shooter. I want him to be the guy...but...you gotta give us more at 7 feet than floating around the perimeter.

Porzingis is an elite rim protector, he and Embiid are tied for first in opponent FG% at the rim. You can build a defense around him with the right pieces, nevermind the offense stuff he's in the Rudy Gobert class as far as guarding the rim goes. His rim protection alone would make him a high impact player.