My Posse's On Broadway: Official NY Knicks 2016-2017 Season Thread

[Wargames]

Phil ruining families now...

fukk it, even I can't Basketball reasons that.....

If he stays he stays

Damn man lala ain't leaving NY even if Melo does...... that is not a ride or die chick at all

 

[Miles Davis]

Hate it had to be Melo

 

[23Barrettcity]

Other than resigning Melo, which is what YOU wanted, and admittedly what I wanted as well at the time, and the Noah contract which probably wouldn't have happened if we couldn't retain Melo, he hasn't done a bad job. When it comes to the future, he's done well by drafting good players and hasn't given up any picks....I have faith we'll pick well again this year and keep it moving. What more do you want? You want a GM like Doc who can only get to the playoffs every year just to get bounced? The only reason Phil and Melo don't get along is because Melo wants the offense to go through him alone and Phil wants a system in place and team oriented play. You should remember that Phil coached the team that bounced Melo out of the only conference finals he's ever been to, I think he knows Melo's game well enough to be able to make an accurate assessment about what his role should be on the Knicks. Melo still thinks he's on Bron and Durant's level. The sad reality is that he isn't. He's older, slower, and can't even finish under the rim that often anymore. He's no longer that guy and we need to admit it, regardless of how much we fukk with him or how "professional" he is. Its over bro. And when it comes to undermining coaches, Jeff Hornacek took the job, I'm sure he knew what the deal was being that his boss is Phil Jackson and he's pretty much new to coaching.

Bottom line is I don't agree with the way Phil does certain things, but at the end of the day I feel comfortable trusting his instincts. I don't feel comfortable believing in letting players run the show, let alone players who have never won anything in the NBA aside from individual accolades.

Ok why do you keep ignoring the fact that Phil isn't the coach ! He's the team president . And if he trusts his instincts he would let Horny coach or fire him and him Coach the team . Instead he's praising rambis a career loser who's done nothing as a coach ! Melo should go because the team needs to restart but Phil needs to go because he doesn't seem to understand that Melo has a NTC and that you can't say the things hes saying if you want to get anything of value for melo . Also he drafted KP and yet Is bashing him and saying he wants impact vets for melo ( to stay competitive instead of tank ??) by the way the scouting team found KP not Phil they been finding good players prior to Phil . PHil hasn't only resigned melo , he traded for Calderon ! He hired fisher and rambis , signed Noah and traded lopez . Stop making excuses

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

this thread is full of comments of ppl saying KP was ready to lead this team

the backtracking is comedy

phils press conference was undeniably stupid and even his biggest supporters are being forced to fall back

you need to stay consistent. u said the knicks shouldnt piss porzingis off, but then u support them trying to force a trade to his mentor, something he's against.

he loved fisher, but then they fire him for rambis, who he hates

he credits carmelo for improving his game and helping him develop, but they disrespect him and try to force him out without asking for his opinion

you know when melo contract expires that porzingis is only gonna be 23 right

then phil opens his mouth and says he could be traded


listen. there different ways to build a team. You're whole "lets be shytty and hope we get draft picks to help porzingis" thing isn't a bad idea, but u need to stop acting like its 100 perent successful cause it isn't. Especially with phil in charge

the melo and porzingis thing can work but it won't under these circumstances so its probably better if he leaves.

when/if pornzings ends up leaving right behind him and brings willy along with him, don't be surprised

we'll have no body and melo will probably be in clevland somewhere without a ring

be good enough for the world champs but not good enough for the knicks part 2 brehs

Oh...

 

[Youhadasparkwhenustarted]

I don't give a shyt about the system my thing is if he wants to run the triangle so badly coach the team yourself but to undermine Horny and stop practices to show them your system is an awful way to do things and extremely disrespectful to the coach.

The one part I'm worried about is how he dievnt want to rebuild even if he trades Melo. Does that mean he's gonna want another veteran back who has a bad contract? Hope not

As far as ISO ball yeah it can work if you have Kobe or Jordan we don't.

As far as the Cavs Kylie is a ISO player but you forgot to mention their best player is one of the greatest passers in NBA history. Kinda important no?

I got the impression that he's gonna do exactly that. I can Phil making a Melo for Crawford/Rivers type of deal in the off-season now(maybe not for those players exactly, but something similar for other vets who probably won't have much of an impact on the court.)

Lebron would qualify as a player who iso's a lot too. Lebron and Kyrie basically put the team on their back and iso'd them to a championship.I'm not saying iso ball is the best way to win(because it's not),I'm just saying that it's still a viable option in today's nba and you can see several examples of it working, which is why the negative stigma surrounding isolation plays feels unfair.

 

[Wargames]

I got the impression that he's gonna do exactly that. I can Phil making a Melo for Crawford/Rivers type of deal in the off-season now(maybe not for those players exactly, but something similar for other vets who probably won't have much of an impact on the court.)

Lebron would qualify as a player who iso's a lot too. Lebron and Kyrie basically put the team on their back and iso'd them to a championship.I'm not saying iso ball is the best way to win(because it's not),I'm just saying that it's still a viable option in today's nba and you can see several examples of it working, which is why the negative stigma surrounding isolation plays feels unfair.

I wonder will this lead him to being open to more destinations.

I still think Miami is the best trade partner for both Melo and the Knicks.

Riley isn't looking to rebuild he wants to go for another chip before he retires. That team is exactly the type of lineup Melo needs to succeed. PG who can shoot, defensive stopper at the rim that limits opponents drives and rebounds, defenders at all positions. If they keep Dion that is basically the same make up of the 54 win NY team.

They can also give us a better package based around young starting quality SF in Winslow who can pass and defend (even if he can't shoot) than the Clippers can around Austin Rivers since we would have to take back Jamal Crawford and wait 4 years for a draft pick.

 

[23Barrettcity]

Me either. Honestly, he could sit the bench, get fat, and collect 60M just to fukk with phil.

But, I also recognized that this is probably Phil's last resort, make melo WANT to leave. I hate it, but I definitely understand what is happening and how we got here.

I heard him say a player of significance, not an impact vet. But going all in on the playoffs would be the nightmare scenario.




We really don't know.



Nobody thinks he's ready to lead a team. Nobody is arguing the knicks would be better next season if Melo was cut, and they got zero returns.

That's not the argument, so stop arguing against it.

The fact of the matter is that - over the next 5 years - Porzingis is this current team's best player. So you have to build with an eye toward that. You have to acquire young talent and picks, and things that will come to fruition on the same schedule, in the same timeline. Plus, we've seen the slapdash efforts to put vets around Melo fail multiple times.

You AND Phil are arguing with red herrings, in order to purposefully miss the point. And it is why I don't want either of you running the team.


=================================================================================================


More importantly, I was nervous this thread was fully devolving after the Phil presser, because there was just so much inflammatory, dead-fukking-wrong shyt in there.

Honestly, the worst part of it, is that he's trying to jedi mind trick KP. This team should be doing everything in its power to keep from alienating Porzingis. He is the only thing on the roster with any real value, right now.

But he's gonna go to latvia and chill for a while, which is probably for the best. Right now the focus is the draft, feeling out trade markets for vets like Lee (and Melo if such a market exists) - and then free agency, which honestly, is the most terrifying proposition in the wake of the Noah deal.

It looks like Frank is very much on the radar, which is a good thing. I don't worry about Markkanen, because he plays the one position we're set with.

Just watched a little bit of Iwundu film, his handles are kinda suspect, but his form is decent, and his length on the wing as a defender could be really useful.

What exactly would you Think is a good haul for melo from a contender ? Say clips or cavs?

 

[Liquid]

Melo is worth a couple of picks...that's about it. I won't even worry about a player in return tbh, it's time to move on.

Wait for the best offer and move forward. Nobody is giving up any decent player for Melo at this point in his career.

 

[23Barrettcity]

Melo is worth a couple of picks...that's about it. I won't even worry about a player in return tbh, it's time to move on.

Wait for the best offer and move forward. Nobody is giving up any decent player for Melo at this point in his career.

He makes too much money to just get picks though

 

[seemorecizzy]

I wonder will this lead him to being open to more destinations.

I still think Miami is the best trade partner for both Melo and the Knicks.

Riley isn't looking to rebuild he wants to go for another chip before he retires. That team is exactly the type of lineup Melo needs to succeed. PG who can shoot, defensive stopper at the rim that limits opponents drives and rebounds, defenders at all positions. If they keep Dion that is basically the same make up of the 54 win NY team.

They can also give us a better package based around young starting quality SF in Winslow who can pass and defend (even if he can't shoot) than the Clippers can around Austin Rivers since we would have to take back Jamal Crawford and wait 4 years for a draft pick.

Phil asked cavs for love
Asked clippers for Griffin
This goes back to my point, he's not trying to rebuild. he just wants melo gone on a personal level
You replace melo with those players and I it goes against his rebuilding plans
Neither of those players are trying to lose games
He has no plan
.

 

[Wargames]

Phil asked cavs for love
Asked clippers for Griffin
This goes back to my point, he's not trying to rebuild. he just wants melo gone on a personal level
You replace melo with those players and I it goes against his rebuilding plans
Neither of those players are trying to lose games
He has no plan
.

Those guys fit so bad with KP I've always assumed he wanted them to trade for other assets aka "I can't get Melo's worth as a star player, so let me trade for Love or Blake to get the assets they are worth".

Also the demand went from that to significant contributor which is a lot more vague, and open to interpretation for opposing GM's to make their offers.

 

[I.V.]

What exactly would you Think is a good haul for melo from a contender ? Say clips or cavs?

Well, that depends. Those two teams are particularly tough pitches because they are capped way out, so I would probably go complex/hybrid deals with at least another team.

If you aren't going to do that, you have to take the long view. LIke, the really long view. with the clips, maybe you absorb two years of Jamal Crawford and Austin Rivers, if they'll part with picks in the 2019-2022 range. Maybe you'd rather have ONE (just Crawford) and a mix of like, Pierce, Wes Johnson, and Speights - if the roster can handle the extra bodies. Again, that's the long play.

The three-way - maybe you can get griffin to Boston, Bradley/Crowder and melo and to Clips. 2018 1st from boston, maybe 2019/20 firsts from Clips to knicks. Maybe the knicks could also score a young prospect in the process. Probably not Brown or Smart, but maybe Zizic or Yaubsele? Celtics get a star, Clips get a punchers chance, plus some much better depth, and they get younger. Knicks get future assets, maybe a player who can also help next season. The thing is, clips can't give up piicks right now, and you wouldn't want them anyway - you want them 3-5 years from now anyway.

Again, all theories.

The Cavs are worse. All their money is long. Unless they're willing to move Love, there's really no decent deal to be had. You're better off waiting for Melo to come off the books in two years, trying to draft well while you stink, and playing that hand - than you would be trying to swing a deal with them. Again, if you an do anything, it's going to end up being 3 ways, you find a team that wants love, or maybe would take on take on tristan thompson, and swing a pick toward the knicks, maybe the cavs get back some cheaper defense/rebounding. Cleveland sends picks in 3-5 years to the Knicks, same kinda thing. You don't want the picks while LeBron is still prime. I'd have to do some serious research to figure it out, and they're not paying me, so I'm gonna pass.

A deal with the cavs is not really realistic if they aren't trading Love (who I'm not sure I want).

If you figure out what's happening with bosh (a shady deal where he agrees to retire as a career ending injury) maybe you work something out with miami. Maybe the Wizards get thirsty after they get bounced from the playoffs this season. Would he go to OKC? There's flexibility there, too.

In the end, coming up with scenarios is fun, but he doesn't HAVE to go anywhere. And accepting LONGER deals isn't really in the Knicks best interest, which is why I have said they should have flipped him a while ago (or not resigned him) - and now they have to figure out how to move on from him, even if he's on the roster.

At this stage in his career, he's worth a top 15 pick and a good player. But the problem is you can't really get that from anybody that might give if up (let along anywhere he might ALSO want to go). So you have to adjust what you're hoping for. More picks, but further away from now, for example... is probably the best/most possible option.

Anyway, this is why I think you focus on the future with your deals, and if something opens up for melo, great, and if not - oh well. Draft guys with the most potential, even if they're a few years away, take your shots, and deal with the fact that next year you won't be good. At least you're doing it with purpose and gaining equity, rather than being bad AND not having a plan.

This team stunk. On top of that, Phil is toxic right now. KP is the only guy that is going to matter to this team in three years, so you gotta mend fences with him.

In the meantime: Scout your asses off, pray for rain with the pick, and when we end up with the 8th or some other awful outcome, pick the best guy you can.

Stop tricking yourself into thinking you can fix it in 18 months. That's not how it's gonna happen.

Next season you probably win 30-35 games again, you end up with another top 8 pick, and you go from there. Don't sign any more Noah deals. Stop saying racist shyt, maybe? See if somebody wants Lee for a 1st in the 20-30 range? Let Horns run his fukking offense.

That's the blueprint.

 

[Frump]

#stayme7o

 

[Frump]

Well, that depends. Those two teams are particularly tough pitches because they are capped way out, so I would probably go complex/hybrid deals with at least another team.

If you aren't going to do that, you have to take the long view. LIke, the really long view. with the clips, maybe you absorb two years of Jamal Crawford and Austin Rivers, if they'll part with picks in the 2019-2022 range. Maybe you'd rather have ONE (just Crawford) and a mix of like, Pierce, Wes Johnson, and Speights - if the roster can handle the extra bodies. Again, that's the long play.

The three-way - maybe you can get griffin to Boston, Bradley/Crowder and melo and to Clips. 2018 1st from boston, maybe 2019/20 firsts from Clips to knicks. Maybe the knicks could also score a young prospect in the process. Probably not Brown or Smart, but maybe Zizic or Yaubsele? Celtics get a star, Clips get a punchers chance, plus some much better depth, and they get younger. Knicks get future assets, maybe a player who can also help next season. The thing is, clips can't give up piicks right now, and you wouldn't want them anyway - you want them 3-5 years from now anyway.

Again, all theories.

The Cavs are worse. All their money is long. Unless they're willing to move Love, there's really no decent deal to be had. You're better off waiting for Melo to come off the books in two years, trying to draft well while you stink, and playing that hand - than you would be trying to swing a deal with them. Again, if you an do anything, it's going to end up being 3 ways, you find a team that wants love, or maybe would take on take on tristan thompson, and swing a pick toward the knicks, maybe the cavs get back some cheaper defense/rebounding. Cleveland sends picks in 3-5 years to the Knicks, same kinda thing. You don't want the picks while LeBron is still prime. I'd have to do some serious research to figure it out, and they're not paying me, so I'm gonna pass.

A deal with the cavs is not really realistic if they aren't trading Love (who I'm not sure I want).

If you figure out what's happening with bosh (a shady deal where he agrees to retire as a career ending injury) maybe you work something out with miami. Maybe the Wizards get thirsty after they get bounced from the playoffs this season. Would he go to OKC? There's flexibility there, too.

In the end, coming up with scenarios is fun, but he doesn't HAVE to go anywhere. And accepting LONGER deals isn't really in the Knicks best interest, which is why I have said they should have flipped him a while ago (or not resigned him) - and now they have to figure out how to move on from him, even if he's on the roster.

At this stage in his career, he's worth a top 15 pick and a good player. But the problem is you can't really get that from anybody that might give if up (let along anywhere he might ALSO want to go). So you have to adjust what you're hoping for. More picks, but further away from now, for example... is probably the best/most possible option.

Anyway, this is why I think you focus on the future with your deals, and if something opens up for melo, great, and if not - oh well. Draft guys with the most potential, even if they're a few years away, take your shots, and deal with the fact that next year you won't be good. At least you're doing it with purpose and gaining equity, rather than being bad AND not having a plan.

This team stunk. On top of that, Phil is toxic right now. KP is the only guy that is going to matter to this team in three years, so you gotta mend fences with him.

In the meantime: Scout your asses off, pray for rain with the pick, and when we end up with the 8th or some other awful outcome, pick the best guy you can.

Stop tricking yourself into thinking you can fix it in 18 months. That's not how it's gonna happen.

Next season you probably win 30-35 games again, you end up with another top 8 pick, and you go from there. Don't sign any more Noah deals. Stop saying racist shyt, maybe? See if somebody wants Lee for a 1st in the 20-30 range? Let Horns run his fukking offense.

That's the blueprint.

The one thing I disagree with you on is I think you have to get rid of Melo(as long as he's willing) at any cost even if it means getting pennies on the dollar

KP needs to be handed the reigns and see if he can take that Giannis Towns level step.

I know you and others have mentioned he progressed in some areas even if it doesn't look like it but the truth of the matter is unfortunately for KP he needs to be a legit beast and franchise level player to have any hope for the Knicks future.Him simply being a good NBA player wouldn't be good enough. And this year didn't make me more convinced he's gonna be a franchise level player even though it's not necessarily all or mostly on him.

So let's start the process and see if he can have a Towns or Giannis like season. Having a aging 33 year old next year who will still be the main option would not help us out in anyway for the future of this franchise or for KP's growth.

It's time the training wheels are taken off and we see what we really have with KP. That's not happening with Melo here

 

[Montez]

3pm today, the coin flip with the T-Wolves.