Modern day polygamy in Africa: first wife feeding second wife goes viral

[Dzali OG]

The Doctor Who Championed Hand-Washing And Briefly Saved Lives

Again, in this artificial world/society it is necessary.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

how did I get into this with you...

But any way...follow and understand...

If you want the answer to most things, simply observe nature:

Is there polygamy in nature?
Is there monogomy in nature?
Is there homosexuality in nature?
Do species war in nature?

The answer to all those questions is yes. That means that what some refer to as god, what some call allah, what some call nature, ordained all of it. Man came along and put our spin and preference on it.

What purpose can polygomy serve? It's not what many think, just an excuse for wild sex!

In a society such as this one, where a lot of stress can be placed on a single wife, a second wife comes in handy.

On a biological level, a man strong enough to land multiple wives, spreads his dna farther. At the same time the offspring have a deeper, stronger clan.

Dying of AIDS is natural.

I don't see your point.

This is about organizing a society that works for the greatest number of people.

 

[Sonic Boom of the South]

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

No, I'm really not insecure. Any relationship can end at any time regardless of the nature of the relationship or of the potential legal relationships in society. I don't think it matters that I met my wife when she was twenty and she decided to stick around. At any time, she could have met someone else and moved on. Any time in the future, she can meet someone else and move on. That calculus does not change.

I don't know why you keep attributing to me the position (that I've never espoused here) that I think that there is some mysterious "meant for one another" aura to relationships. I'm aware that with different choices in my life, I might be married to someone else - or not at all. And no, this does not scare me. There are men in countries right now, for example, Japan, who have little competition and who have chosen to avoid competition for women. And no, that would not change if Japan suddenly decided that polygamy was the way to go.

Increased competition in China because they were stupid enough to abort a bunch of children who would become marriageable women hasn't caused the country to fracture into Civil War. The same would be true of the U.S. That sort of fracturing happens because of reasons that are more important than "increased competition for women."

Please stop with the act like you have some sort of inside truth about relationships. Yeah, yeah, we all know that people make the best choices available to them, and those choices would have changed based on any number of events in other universes. So the fukk what?

1. Japan's birthrate issues would be worse with polygamy.

2. China's problems with mates were artificially imposed

I'm not saying its a 0 or 1 here. I'm saying that add to whatever problem you have, polygamy makes it much worse. And that appears to be a general fact.

I'm convinced you didn't read the article I posted.:

Valerie Hudson of Texas A&M University and Hilary Matfess of Yale have found that an inflated brideprice is a “critical” factor “predisposing young men to become involved in organised group violence for political purposes”. Terrorist groups know this, too. Muhammad Kasab, a Pakistani terrorist hanged for his role in the Mumbai attacks of 2008, said he joined Lashkar-e-Taiba, the jihadist aggressor, because it promised to pay for his siblings to get married. In Nigeria, Boko Haram arranges marriages for its recruits. The so-called Islamic State used to offer foreign recruits $1,500 towards a starter home and a free honeymoon in Raqqa. Radical Islamist groups in Egypt have also organised cheap marriages for members. It is not just in the next life that jihadists are promised virgins.

In the West polygamy is too rare to be socially destabilising. To some extent this is because it is serialised. Rich and powerful men regularly swap older wives for younger ones, thus monopolising the prime reproductive years of several women. But that allows a few wives, not a few dozen. The polygamous enclaves in America run by breakaway Mormon sects are highly unstable—the old men in charge expel large numbers of young men for trivial offences so they can marry lots of young women themselves. Nevertheless, some American campaigners argue that parallelised polygamy should be made legal. If the constitution demands that gay marriage be allowed (as the Supreme Court ruled in 2015), then surely it is unconstitutional to disallow plural marriage, they argue. “Group marriage is the next horizon of social liberalism,” writes Fredrik deBoer, an academic, inPolitico, on the basis that long-term polyamorous relationships deserve as much legal protection as any others freely entered into.

Polygamy is also bad for children. A study of 240,000 children in 29 African countries found that, after controlling for other factors, those in polygamous families were more likely to die young. A study among the Dogon of Mali found that a child in a polygynous family was seven to 11 times more likely to die early than a child in a monogamous one. The father spends his time siring more children rather than looking after the ones he already has, Mr Barash explains. Also, according to the Dogon themselves, jealous co-wives sometimes poison each other’s offspring so that their own will inherit more.

 

[Dzali OG]

hmmm, In America if the man made 65k and each wife made 55K that's a nice 3 income home, could buy 2 houses with that

I believe some form of polygomy may be necessary here in america.

I think we may need to begin some type of clan society to survive. A clan with multiple women and men. If a man is capable and of means, a second man may not be necessary.

But I'm tired of these sisters out here doing it by themselves! It's the kids who suffer, and feed the prisons.

Don't know what the answer is, but we have to do something.

 

[CEO of Morgan Industries]

1. Japan's birthrate issues would be worse with polygamy.

2. China's problems with mates were artificially imposed

I'm not saying its a 0 or 1 here. I'm saying that add to whatever problem you have, polygamy makes it much worse. And that appears to be a general fact.

I'm convinced you didn't read the article I posted.:

No, I read it. You just don't like that I poked holes in your argument.

The point about Japan and China is that increased competition for women, which is a natural side effect of polygamy, has not caused the societal issues that you pointed out.

The point about breakaway polygamous sects in the U.S. doesn't work because they are, by nature, black market marriages. If polygamy was legal, the government could then control the issues that hamper these sects via lawful means.

The point about brideprice driving violence is separate from the point about marriages. If you want to argue that paying brideprices is harmful, I'm with you all the way. That is not the same as arguing that polygamy undermines society.

Your third excerpt is the only one with any merit, though actually having the study at hand rather than a summary excerpt - for example, so that we could see the other variables controlled for - would be useful.

Your logic and evidence are still insufficient to support your point.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

No, I read it. You just don't like that I poked holes in your argument.

The point about Japan and China is that increased competition for women, which is a natural side effect of polygamy, has not caused the societal issues that you pointed out.

Because polygamy is illegal.

The US is very competitive because our intense capitalistic society, but at the end of the day, its still two people.

The point about breakaway polygamous sects in the U.S. doesn't work because they are, by nature, black market marriages. If polygamy was legal, the government could then control the issues that hamper these sects via lawful means.

and yet, they show a model for the perils of polygamy that you can't ignore.

Black market in the USA, is green-lit in Africa, asian, and middle-eastern countries

The point about brideprice driving violence is separate from the point about marriages. If you want to argue that paying brideprices is harmful, I'm with you all the way. That is not the same as arguing that polygamy undermines society.

You can't have brideprice without polygamy.

In fact the least you can argue is that all we have is wedding rings and everyone doesn't even do that.

Your third excerpt is the only one with any merit, though actually having the study at hand rather than a summary excerpt - for example, so that we could see the other variables controlled for - would be useful.

Your logic and evidence are still insufficient to support your point.

My point stands. Polygamy incites further competition within "families" for resources that dont end with the beginning of a marriage. They continue throughout the life of raising kids and in the day to day interactions of members of the family.

 

[CEO of Morgan Industries]

Because polygamy is illegal.

The US is very competitive because our intense capitalistic society, but at the end of the day, its still two people.

and yet, they show a model for the perils of polygamy that you can't ignore.

Black market in the USA, is green-lit in Africa, asian, and middle-eastern countries


You can't have brideprice without polygamy.

In fact the least you can argue is that all we have is wedding rings and everyone doesn't even do that.


My point stands. Polygamy incites further competition within "families" for resources that dont end with the beginning of a marriage. They continue throughout the life of raising kids and in the day to day interactions of members of the family.

• Polygamy being illegal in those countries is irrelevant. The point is that the increased competition for women (China) or lack of men being competitive in the dating market (Japan) have not undermined those countries as societies, and in fact are evidence against your argument.
• "Green-lit," but not well-regulated, as I said that the government should do in any society that allows these marriages. The government regulates monogamous marriages, so they'd obviously be in a position to do such to polygamous parriages.
• You can absolutely have brideprice without polygamy. In fact, Chinese men have a defacto brideprice right now considering that they have to have a certain amount of money and an apartment to be competitive.
• In any case, your points are weak. You can do better.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

@VR Tripper you know how the arguments against the drug war is to legalize drugs are not that drugs are good, but that the alternative is far worse.

Thats the same with polygamy. Its not that some people might actually want it, and it may work for them. Its that when extrapolated to the greater body of society, it would cause far more problems and introduce many more complications.

Every policy decision is a trade off. There is rarely a universally unanimous policy position.

Banning polygamy presents the greatest number of benefits compared to the alternative.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

• Polygamy being illegal in those countries is irrelevant. The point is that the increased competition for women (China) or lack of men being competitive in the dating market (Japan) have not undermined those countries as societies, and in fact are evidence against your argument.

Thats capitalistic in nature.

Polygamy would make it worse.

Look at the IG model market.

Now add polygamy

• "Green-lit," but not well-regulated, as I said that the government should do in any society that allows these marriages. The government regulates monogamous marriages, so they'd obviously be in a position to do such to polygamous parriages.

its more than regulating the marriages. Its the other societal ills:

- increased crime
- decreased economic productivity (no dignity in male labor)
- increased risks of terrorism
- increase in rape
- increase in reported depression
- increase in healthcare risks due to competition within families such as domestic violence and intra-partner assaults
- decreased child welfare

I could go on and on.

You refuse to account for the massive economic and social outcomes that result from these policies.

• You can absolutely have brideprice without polygamy. In fact, Chinese men have a defacto brideprice right now considering that they have to have a certain amount of money and an apartment to be competitive.

Yeah. Thats just called stability.

With polygamy, an apartment and a job aren't enough. Thats where the deleterious competition starts and people get hurt.

• In any case, your points are weak. You can do better.

You can't keep calling things weak when I've literally provided more hardcoded statistical and referential studies than you have.

 

[☑︎#VoteDemocrat]

Again, in this artificial world/society it is necessary.

Have you ever had a girlfriend?

Now imagine a society where she has no incentive to casually date you.

You're young, broke, uneducated, and have no power.

Why on earth would she want to commit to you or build with you, when she can get all her needs met with a guy who has everything ready to go RIGHT NOW....and all she has to do is live with a few other women.

 

[CEO of Morgan Industries]

Thats capitalistic in nature.

Polygamy would make it worse.

Look at the IG model market.

Now add polygamy
its more than regulating the marriages. Its the other societal ills:

- increased crime
- decreased economic productivity (no dignity in male labor)
- increased risks of terrorism
- increase in rape
- increase in reported depression
- increase in healthcare risks due to competition within families such as domestic violence and intra-partner assaults
- decreased child welfare

I could go on and on.

You refuse to account for the massive economic and social outcomes that result from these policies. Yeah. Thats just called stability.

With polygamy, an apartment and a job aren't enough. Thats where the deleterious competition starts and people get hurt.

You can't keep calling things weak when I've literally provided more hardcoded statistical and referential studies than you have.

And I've already raised issues with your articles that reference studies again and again that you can't respond to!

Look, I respect that you have a different position, but you suck at defending it. You offer an article that mentions snippets of studies, points all of which I have responded to, and you haven't been able or willing to support those studies as any form of defense.

Further, since you made the claim, you have to actually support the claim. I don't have to support anything since I didn't make the opening claim in this argument; you responded to me with a defense of your position. Have you not ever taken a basic critical thinking course? You should and can do better here.

Further than that, you haven't accounted for any "massive economic [or] social outcomes" in any of your argument beyond the snippet that argues that children of polygamous relations. You make a series of claims in bullets in the above post...with no support for them at all.

So, I've been nice to you because we're friendly in HL, but your argument here has been garbage. You attempted to make an argument based on imaginary shyt I didn't say, and when I pointed out those strawmen, you've hung onto the info from a single source and made a series of easily-debunkable claims ("brideprice can't exist without polygamy," for example). You're great at shifting goalposts and making up arguments that I didn't say in order to try and attack said arguments.

You can do better. I know you have a brain in there. At this point, you're making claims and pointing to an article whose points I've directly attacked and of which attacks you have not even tried to rebut. Again, do better. Otherwise, I'm wasting my time here typing to you. I thought that we were going to have a productive discussion.

 

[CreepyMcCreeperson]

We already had this discussion in a polygamy thread. This lifestyle is not practical here, because you end up not having enough women to go around for all the men, and the older men kick their older sons out to keep them away from their young wives.

On top of that, the women end up having between 4-8 children each, and you have 20 kids to provide for. This also makes the government mad, because the first wife is your only legal wife, and the others are single mothers who qualify for foodstamps, section 8, and cash welfare. Then you run into welfare fraud, because the women share the food with the other women's kids, and that's illegal. That would put a major drain on taxes.

Plus, can you imagine having to deal with multiple women who get PMS, get jealous of each other, some with fertility issues who see their sister wives have baby after baby, bytching, spreading yourself thin, your kids not getting enough individual attention. This would not be some fantasy life of men laying down on a couch while the women feed us grapes, and take turns giving head.

 

[panopticon]

Man...I had to start PAWGing because I wasn't competitive in our community

I don't even want to think what my life would be like if we had polygamy
I would definitely end up one of those dudes left out...I feel for all the brehs out there in South Sudan and Nigeria and Afghanistan who gotta struggle with this shyt right now

And in America we don't even have replacement fertility...each generation of women born here is smaller than the last...the competition would be fukking gruesome

Please don't do this

 

[Originalman]

Folks on twitter so ignorant. Plus this is these folks culture why her western broke ass hating.