Stop dikk eating.Calls a good metaphor trash then gives a extremely trash metaphor
MJ vs Lebron: Accolades
- Thread starter TheHonorableOmarSharif
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- goat holgang michaeljordan
Jordan is better than Bron, bottom line
If I was starting a team I would pick MJ over Bron
in a close game I would rather Jordan take the final shot than Bron
peeps talk about stats but MJ was undefeated in the Finals, Lebron's records in the finals, no need to even go there
I'll take quality over quantity when it comes to accolades
he11 Steve Nash got more MVP'S than Kobe, but does that make Nash better than Kobe ???
If I was starting a team I would pick MJ over Bron
in a close game I would rather Jordan take the final shot than Bron
peeps talk about stats but MJ was undefeated in the Finals, Lebron's records in the finals, no need to even go there
I'll take quality over quantity when it comes to accolades
he11 Steve Nash got more MVP'S than Kobe, but does that make Nash better than Kobe ???
etrofllenrod504
All Star
Forgive me........I know I should know better than to break coli protocol......Shut up, you’re making sense! That’s not what we do up here.
Whips-n-Chains
Chi
2011
murksiderock
Superstar
Born stans got "acceptance" issues
The irony of a Michael Jordan fan saying this. Meet the fukking kettle, Pot. Lmao...
4 championships is 4 championships, that is a LOT of championships. Only a few guys have won more who weren't on Russell's Celtics, and only Russell himself, Mike, and Mikan won more championships as the best player on their team...
If you subtract the NBA before 1970, the most championships won as a team's best player looks like this: (1)Mike with 6 (2)Bron and Duncan with 4...
Man got to 10 Finals in his first 17 years. 9 in his first 15 years. Come on, bro. He has a losing record because 7 of his 10 Finals were vs dynastic teams; teams don't become dynasties by getting beat on. He got two chips off those dynasties. You tell me the guy who would have won more than 2 rings vs 7 Finals of SA/GS. Mike not even getting there in '07 and we know this because he never got anything close to a Finals with his rosters that were comparable to '07 Cavs...
Bron went off in '14 and '15 and couldn't overcome injuries and shytty play from his castmates. But I guess if Mike averages 40 those years his team magically wins? Bron went off in '17 and '18 and again we know Mike not even getting there with that '18 roster...
Your GOAT case is built on all those things you named: how you were at peak; how you were at prime; your degree of dominance; postseason resume and by resume I mean performance more than wins or losses...
Because we both know you can be phenomenal in a series loss, we both know your team can just not be as good as the opponent; and we both know you can be bad or average in a series win and you can win a series just based on you having the better team...
So playoff "resume" to me is more about how you played vs playoff competition and with each round you advance your performance takes on added importance. As in, elite second round performances are more relevant than elite first round performances, elite conference finals performances are more relevant than elite Semis performances, and elite Finals performances are more relevant than elite conference finals performances...
Also your career has to be framed in totality, if you walked in the door playing at All-Star to All-Pro level that matters vs someone else who spent his first year or few on the bench or in a lesser role than one of the best players on a team. Longevity matters, and by longevity I don't even think "full career" so much as length of prime. Vince Carter played 22 years, longest career in NBA history. His longevity doesn't really mean shyt because he left his prime 12-14 years before his career ended, his prime was maybe a 5-7 year stretch max anyway, and his prime wasn't historically impressive---->he was never one of the 5 best players in basketball and even at his peak he was only borderline Top 10...
So when I think about "longevity" I'm talking length of prime...
Guys here shyt on accolades when they want, and as this thread attests, they champion accolades when it supports their argument. I'm consistent across the board, yes there are cases of earning accolades that aren't deserved, and cases an award was missed out on but you deserved it, but for the most part, the accolades are a result of top tier play...
It's an all-encompassing evaluation that you have to at least try to be objective about. Obviously I don't think Mike is the greatest player ever, however I'm on record many times as saying I have no issue with people who do, it's the supporting arguments that don't work most of the time. I can easily boil Mike's GOAT case to this:
•greatest player of his era
•arguably highest peak ever (only Wilt and LeBron are close)
•entered the NBA wrecking shyt (wasnt no one's sidekick or bench player)
•10+ year prime (regardless where you start or end it I think he had over a decade that he was an elite, Top 5 player which matters greatly to me)
•arguably greatest scorer ever in a game where the team that scores the most points win the game
•GOAT-level defensive superstar guard at peak
•6 championships, all as the best player/#1 on his team, never anybody's #2
•8 ECF runs, all as the best player on his team
•all the accolades
•all the above means he's arguably the greatest player ever
So I can easily see Mike's GOAT case. And contrary to popular belief, all these GOATs including Mike can have cases made against them. There is no one greatest player ever because all these guys weren't competing against each other at the same time all of them were in their primes in the same era. It's all subjective to what criteria one values most, but as I say, even though I don't personally see Mike as the greatest player ever, I definitely believe he has a really strong case...
How is Bron an MJ wannabe?
The only loss that is attributable to his play is '11. And in a comp with Mike that's absolutely fair to hold against Bron since Mike never had the '11 Finals performance. But that's it. The other 5 losses in The Finals weren't because of LeBron's play...
Not a single one of those guys you named peaked higher than LeBron, they arent even arguable...
High quality poster
Veteran
murksiderock
Superstar
yea Scottie pippen was inferior to a dude who led the damn league in scoring along with 7/5 Rodmanlet me guess Rodman is better than prime Anthony Davis or Chris Bosh or Kevin love. Kyrie Irving scored 40 in a finals game averaged 27 ppg in the finals & hit the championship clinching shot. Pippen never did no shyt like that you delusional revisionists
None of these guys have made it past the Semifinals round in their careers without LeBron. You giving these nikkas way too much credit, and two of them were on milk cartons in the Finals they did play in...
How ?
30,6,5 vs 27,7,7
Mikes stats also rose exponentially through the playoffs and finals.Can’t get better than that
Bron's scoring average increased over his regular season scoring in 7 playoffs. That's clearly indicative of a guy who raised his level of play in the postseason...
He ranks 190 in defensive win shares.. You know how bad that is? Russell Westbrook is #40. Lebron is a stat sheet stuffer but the best is Giannis, Embid, Durant etc..
He's 37 in his 19th season. The bar yall hold fam to is unbelievable. Nobody else in the history of The League is even relevant at this stage of their career as an elite player...
murksiderock
Superstar
To me, these are clearly the three highest peaks ever and the data doesn't support that any one of the three peaked more than marginally higher than the other two...
"Peak" and "prime'' have obvious grey area depending on how one views the start abd end points, so give or take a year. But Wilt's 5-year peak was roughly 1963-68; Mike's was roughly 1987-92; LeBron's was roughly 2009-14. Wilt's regular season peak may be the highest ever, but he's trailing the other two pretty comfortably in postseason performance at peak...
As I've said many times before, the strongest argument for having Mike over Bron is that Mike doesn't have the '11 Finals. Other than that their playoff resumes are pretty evenly comparable.
I think when you have the clear case that you were greater for longer, and the argument that even if someone peaked higher than you it was marginal, and you have all the necessary accolades to validate your peak play; I think that solidifies your case...
These dudes really saying Mike had a rougher road to the to the top lmao...
What? It's really close, what are you talking about?
Mike definitely hasn't had to overcome as much as Bron, who routinely had squads in The Finals that shouldn't even been there ('07, '18) or were decimated by injuries to the best players ('14, '15). In addition to never making a Finals with a bad roster, Mike never got there undermanned or outgunned...
His team was always the better roster...
Who has to fight to prove LeBron is an All-Timer?
zayk35
Superstar
I love these threads you'll never convince either "Hives". I'm at the stage where hey I know what I saw with Jordan in real time. Just like LeBron fans know what they've seen in real time. I've seen both and fukk all the data, and analyzing, and someone even said erase the history from 1970 and earlier. Mike is the GOAT, that's just all there is to it and you don't need no damn "data" to back it up.
The bulls were always down by some silly ass margins late in the 3rd quarter going into the 4th. But the whole world knew that Mike would lead them back and he did more often than not in the finals with the world watching. LeBron got him beat in longevity but that's where it stops.
But LeBron fans can point to 07 and those other terrible Cavs teams he willed to the playoffs. Or the 8 straight finals appearances.
The bulls were always down by some silly ass margins late in the 3rd quarter going into the 4th. But the whole world knew that Mike would lead them back and he did more often than not in the finals with the world watching. LeBron got him beat in longevity but that's where it stops.
But LeBron fans can point to 07 and those other terrible Cavs teams he willed to the playoffs. Or the 8 straight finals appearances.
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fifth column
Superstar
You really gonna ask how is Bron a MJ wannabe
nairdas
I've Destroyed Whole Planets
I'll say it every time we have these threads. 2011 ended Lebron's hopes of being the goat. No fukking way a goat performs like his did in 2011 finals. It was disgusting. It would have been one thing if he scored 40ppg and lost, but this nikka averged only 17 and disappeared in 4 straight 4th quarters. Disgusting 
It is beyond me how Lebron stans can even fix their mouths to say he's better than Jordan knowing that transpired. It's blasphemous honestly.
It is beyond me how Lebron stans can even fix their mouths to say he's better than Jordan knowing that transpired. It's blasphemous honestly.
Jordan came back to sell tickets. If he wasn’t an owner of a underperforming franchise, he wouldn’t have played. If he was a part owner of the Lakers, he wouldn’t have came back. It was a publicity stunt. I agree that I didn’t want him to come back for those reasons but he still gave us great moments by doing so.Only thing i wish is Jordan didnt come back after 98.
The way 98 ended was a big part of The Last Dance.
Only thing I liked about the Wizards stint is when he came back to Chicago to play and the ovation he got.
Oh, and the game winner where rip hamilton mirrored his celebration
The crazy thing about the Bron vs MJ debate is they would have been perfect teammates, just by looking at their games
Getting to the finals undermanned is simply the competition wasn't great. Like when AI made it.
Ukbrotha
Superstar
Do you want to list these accolades side by side?