Mike D of Beastie Boys: 2Pacs Quest for Authenticity Killed Him

[Dirty D]

Pac was not on a "quest for authenticity". He was an authentic artist. With all the good and bad that comes with that. Genius and madness are often a package deal.

Plus he knew for a fact people were trying to kill him. That'll make anyone bug out.

Yes, his manner of speaking changed from when he was a polite 17-year-old who'd lived with his mom all his life. Anyone who went through what he did during those years would become more hardened. There's continued progression in his vocal style on each album. 2Pacalypse Now does not sound like All Eyez On Me.

He often spoke on his own evolution in his work.

An example from Who Do U Believe In:

I started out as a beginner
Entered the criminal lifestyle, became a sinner
I make my money and vacate, evade prison
Went from the chosen one to outcast, unforgiven
And all the Hennessy and weed can't hide, the pain I feel inside
You know, it's like I'm livin just to die
I fall on my knees and beg for mercy, not knowin if I'm worthy
Livin life thinkin no man can hurt me
So I'm askin -- before I lay me down to sleep
Before you judge me, look at all the shyt you did to me, my misery
I rose up from the slums, made it out the flames
In my search for fame will I change?

 

[Slystallion]

The revisionist history is to much

So now Pac killed Biggie Smalls?

Why don't you blame Puffy for forcing Biggie to go to LA when he didn't even want to?

Dude it was obvious retaliation for Pac being dead...Pac never starts acting paranoid and causing the whole riff Biggie never even gets involved in the whole process and probably ends up staying alive and would have died 5 years ago instead of heart failure

 

[Nomad1]

Dude it was obvious retaliation for Pac being dead...Pac never starts acting paranoid and causing the whole riff Biggie never even gets involved in the whole process and probably ends up staying alive and would have died 5 years ago instead of heart failure

What you said before is factually wrong. Biggie died because his CEO (Puffy) involved himself and his star rapper with the South Side Compton Crips knowing they were the enemy's with the Mob Piru, Suge's security. Knowing all of that he still forced his star rapper to go to LA when Biggie didn't want to and Voletta Wallace not being happy about the situation either because she recognized the danger and Puffy recognized the $$.

But lets blame Tupac who died months before and not Suge Knight (who actually ordered the hit) and Puffy (who ordered Tupac's hit AND forced his star rapper to go to a hostile city).

 

[Slystallion]

What you said before is factually wrong. Biggie died because his CEO (Puffy) involved himself and his star rapper with the South Side Compton Crips knowing they were the enemy's with the Mob Piru, Suge's security. Knowing all of that he still forced his star rapper to go to LA when Biggie didn't want to and Voletta Wallace not being happy about the situation either because she recognized the danger and Puffy recognized the $$.

But lets blame Tupac who died months before and not Suge Knight (who actually ordered the hit) and Puffy (who ordered Tupac's hit AND forced his star rapper to go to a hostile city).

looks at the shyt under your username



see's where your repping

go ahead and believe internet theories and call them facts breh...

even if your scenario is true there is no Puffy Suge or any gang beef if Pac doesn't make hit em up and starts acting like an ignorant ass for the last year of his life and beating up gang members outside of Vegas...both Pac and Biggie is alive if Pac was about business instead of having a thug fetish

 

[Wacky D]

well considering that the whole incident in vegas went down because dudes had money on HIS head, i dont see why people are acting surprised that pac got his licks in.

yall would prolly do the same in the heat of the moment.......thats of course if yall have any type of gump.

 

[Nomad1]

looks at the shyt under your username



see's where your repping

go ahead and believe internet theories and call them facts breh...

even if your scenario is true there is no Puffy Suge or any gang beef if Pac doesn't make hit em up and starts acting like an ignorant ass for the last year of his life and beating up gang members outside of Vegas...both Pac and Biggie is alive if Pac was about business instead of having a thug fetish

"Interent theories"



You can't debunk facts so you dismiss them as "theories"

-Keffe D (Orlando's uncle) already snitched to the cops and said Puffy put a hit on Pac and Suge
-Suge's girlfriend snitched on Suge to the cops and said Suge used a Mob Piru (Poochie) to kill Biggie Smalls

If you wan't to blame anybody it should be Suge and Puffy for actually getting bloods and crips involved/not doing enough to distance their star rappers from that whole mess. Biggie wasn't the only rapper Pac went at and they're still alive

Pac critics and Biggie Smalls stans like to twist history in order to discredit Pac.

-Let's not forget Biggie and Puffy released Who shot ya knowing people will interpret it as a diss (they wanted to capitalize on the buzz)
-Let's not forget Biggie almost got DPG and Snoop killed in NYC when he said on a radio show that Snoop and Tupac (he wasn't even there) was filming in a diss (or some shyt) in "our" city, then their trailer gets shot up
-Let's not forget that the night Biggie got killed Orlando and Keffe D were talking with Puffy about future security work with them


"bubub Biggie is an angel and Pac was judas"

 

[Nomad1]

looks at the shyt under your username



see's where your repping

go ahead and believe internet theories and call them facts breh...

even if your scenario is true there is no Puffy Suge or any gang beef if Pac doesn't make hit em up and starts acting like an ignorant ass for the last year of his life and beating up gang members outside of Vegas...both Pac and Biggie is alive if Pac was about business instead of having a thug fetish

The gang mess wasn't because of "Hit Em UP" . HEU was a response to WHo Shot Ya which Biggie released FIRST.

The "Bloods vs Crips" entered the whole shyt when Puffy asked ZIP to get the SSCC as security when they reach LA. Suge already knew these Mob Pirus since his times in Compton.

See The revisionist history I was talking about?

 

[Slystallion]

"Interent theories"



You can't debunk facts so you dismiss them as "theories"

-Keffe D (Orlando's uncle) already snitched to the cops and said Puffy put a hit on Pac and Suge
-Suge's girlfriend snitched on Suge to the cops and said Suge used a Mob Piru (Poochie) to kill Biggie Smalls

If you wan't to blame anybody it should be Suge and Puffy for actually getting bloods and crips involved/not doing enough to distance their star rappers from that whole mess. Biggie wasn't the only rapper Pac went at and they're still alive

Pac critics and Biggie Smalls stans like to twist history in order to discredit Pac.

-Let's not forget Biggie and Puffy released Who shot ya knowing people will interpret it as a diss (they wanted to capitalize on the buzz)
-Let's not forget Biggie almost got DPG and Snoop killed in NYC when he said on a radio show that Snoop and Tupac (he wasn't even there) was filming in a diss (or some shyt) in "our" city, then their trailer gets shot up
-Let's not forget that the night Biggie got killed Orlando and Keffe D were talking with Puffy about future security work with them


"bubub Biggie is an angel and Pac was judas"

why aren't Diddy and Suge in jail then?

 

[Nomad1]

why aren't Diddy and Suge in jail then?

1. Suge is not in jail because the LAPD re-assigned the leading investigator (Greg Kading) to another case and the new lead detective on Biggie Smalls case didn't want to "solve" it so the LAPD buried the case.

2. Puffy's not in jail because the only people that know about "hit" are dead or in jail (Orlando is dead and the other guys in the white Cadillac are dead), ZIP who knew of the hit died of Cancer, and Keffe D's confession won't hold up in court because there isn't any other piece of evidence that can prove beyond reasonable doubt (with Puffy's type of money his lawyers court obliterate Keffe D on the stand because he is an ex drug dealer and murderer).

Plus Orlando the actual killer of Tupac is dead and Poochie the actual killer of Biggie is dead as well (both died in shoot-outs)

 

[Big Skilly Films]

1. Suge is not in jail because the LAPD re-assigned the leading investigator (Greg Kading) to another case and the new lead detective on Biggie Smalls case didn't want to "solve" it so the LAPD buried the case.

2. Puffy's not in jail because the only people that know about "hit" are dead or in jail (Orlando is dead and the other guys in the white Cadillac are dead), ZIP who knew of the hit died of Cancer, and Keffe D's confession won't hold up in court because there isn't any other piece of evidence that can prove beyond reasonable doubt (with Puffy's type of money his lawyers court obliterate Keffe D on the stand because he is an ex drug dealer and murderer).

Plus Orlando the actual killer of Tupac is dead and Poochie the actual killer of Biggie is dead as well (both died in shoot-outs)

you sound like a damn google search...

 

[Nomad1]

you sound like a damn google search...

I research shyt before I say some shyt....plus im a Pac stan so...

 

[shopthatwrecks]

This. Still, to be fair, he had also been taken advantage of by an opportunist masquerading equally as a tough guy and a music mogul who in the long run turned out to be neither. Pac was in jail, broke, paranoid, pretty much friendless, had enemies, and here comes somebody who appears to be able to solve all of those problems. Getting involved with Suge Knight, or more appropriately signing his life away for what he thought was simply a record deal, and some allies, ended up with him really signing his life away. The irony was him being signed to a label entitled, Death Row. Pac was a dead man walking as soon as he got involved with them and he didn't even know it being so desperate and immature. They took advantage of him just like so many other naive people get got in the music industry. At times when I think of the old Eiht/CMW video for Straight Thuggin It Up with the devil pulling strings, I almost wonder if the director had Pac and Suge in mind.

Pac was starting to figure it out for himself too, as rumors had it that he was planning on leaving Death Row, but it was too late.

he wasnt taken advantage of..

pac wasnt stupid...pac was really bishop if u look at all his fukk ups n street issues..

biggie n puffy were steel raheem n q..wrapped up in one...raheem n q..stayed tryin 2 get in pacs head..about different shyt that could get em touched...

pac never listen jus like his character...pac gets touched...by the nikkas big was tellin em to not fukk with..in the same place he gets touched...all of sudden...his attitude changed like bishop did when he seen q nem walkin down the street right before he killed radamez...

get hit..then gotta take a charge...for the same nikkas who he was told to not fukk with it...

yet it was biggie fault..

gets out of jail...move back to the west same shyt...except..he didnt have nobody in his ear to tell bad idea...it wasnt your chain that got snatch..thats that nikkas problem..

pac was a follower...

 

[Nomad1]

he wasnt taken advantage of..

pac wasnt stupid...pac was really bishop if u look at all his fukk ups n street issues..

biggie n puffy were steel raheem n q..wrapped up in one...raheem n q..stayed tryin 2 get in pacs head..about different shyt that could get em touched...

pac never listen jus like his character...pac gets touched...by the nikkas big was tellin em to not fukk with..in the same place he gets touched...all of sudden...his attitude changed like bishop did when he seen q nem walkin down the street right before he killed radamez...

get hit..then gotta take a charge...for the same nikkas who he was told to not fukk with it...

yet it was biggie fault..

gets out of jail...move back to the west same shyt...except..he didnt have nobody in his ear to tell bad idea...it wasnt your chain that got snatch..thats that nikkas problem..

pac was a follower...

Horrible analogy

 

[MooseMouthMthafuga]

Pac did die because of a quest for authenticity but not in the sense that he wanted to prove he was real. He wanted others to hold the same standards of keeping it real that he did, which were intuitively principled. The whole 2pac/Bad Boy beef really stems from Pac's speaking out against Black Mafia because he perceived them as being fake in a sense because they tried to extort fellow brothers and had snitches like Haitian Jack running with them. Pac spoke out on it, got shot for it, didn't have the people he was hanging with stick up for him in the matter and consequently spoke up about that.

This led to the beef which was carried over in his music and was the prime reason why he chose to sign with Death Row. Every beef he got into after that, no matter how silly some seemed, can be traced back to him making a judgment on who was keeping it real and who wasn't. Pac wanted everyone to act on the sense of honor and pride that he did. Of course, most people ain't shyt because morals come at a price and so he clashed with a lot of people.

This is also what ultimately led him to beat down Orlando, not because he wanted to belong in a gang or prove that he was real but because he felt he really was objectively right and justified in taking it to those who opposed him because he knew about himself that he wanted what is best for the community. Orlando was affiliated with Puffy's camp, so by default he was on the wrong side morally in Pac's mind. He always felt his heart was in the right place. So if people opposed him, it had to be something wrong with them and their motivation. If you listen to that last major interview, this attitude clearly shows.
Now of course Pac was naive in believing that he could get all people to be real just by trying to live according to certain principles himself in various situations. But at the same time, he was really doing a lot to try to keep that authenticity a part of hip hop. We have seen since his death what happens when people are not held to a certain standard of 'realness'. Hip hop has turned pathetic and is more than ever infested with people living fantasies who ain't about shyt. Hip hop is not about community anymore, it's about money. It's a business vehicle rather than a culture for a community now. Pac's death represents this shift and his beef with Bad Boy was at least partly a symbolic clash between these opposing forces (sense of community and honor versus indifferent, opportunistic money-making) acting on hip hop culture. We all know which force came to dominate unfortunately. We used to love her. Now we just love the memory of Pac.

Might be the best post I've ever read on this site regarding Tupac.You summed it up

 

[2Quik4UHoes]

Pac did die because of a quest for authenticity but not in the sense that he wanted to prove he was real. He wanted others to hold the same standards of keeping it real that he did, which were intuitively principled. The whole 2pac/Bad Boy beef really stems from Pac's speaking out against Black Mafia because he perceived them as being fake in a sense because they tried to extort fellow brothers and had snitches like Haitian Jack running with them. Pac spoke out on it, got shot for it, didn't have the people he was hanging with stick up for him in the matter and consequently spoke up about that.

This led to the beef which was carried over in his music and was the prime reason why he chose to sign with Death Row. Every beef he got into after that, no matter how silly some seemed, can be traced back to him making a judgment on who was keeping it real and who wasn't. Pac wanted everyone to act on the sense of honor and pride that he did. Of course, most people ain't shyt because morals come at a price and so he clashed with a lot of people.

This is also what ultimately led him to beat down Orlando, not because he wanted to belong in a gang or prove that he was real but because he felt he really was objectively right and justified in taking it to those who opposed him because he knew about himself that he wanted what is best for the community. Orlando was affiliated with Puffy's camp, so by default he was on the wrong side morally in Pac's mind. He always felt his heart was in the right place. So if people opposed him, it had to be something wrong with them and their motivation. If you listen to that last major interview, this attitude clearly shows.
Now of course Pac was naive in believing that he could get all people to be real just by trying to live according to certain principles himself in various situations. But at the same time, he was really doing a lot to try to keep that authenticity a part of hip hop. We have seen since his death what happens when people are not held to a certain standard of 'realness'. Hip hop has turned pathetic and is more than ever infested with people living fantasies who ain't about shyt. Hip hop is not about community anymore, it's about money. It's a business vehicle rather than a culture for a community now. Pac's death represents this shift and his beef with Bad Boy was at least partly a symbolic clash between these opposing forces (sense of community and honor versus indifferent, opportunistic money-making) acting on hip hop culture. We all know which force came to dominate unfortunately. We used to love her. Now we just love the memory of Pac.

Pretty much. :hugoehh: