Miguel Cabrera and Buster Posey win MVP Awards

[Miggs]

this is inaccurate.

This total, which has been bandied everywhere as the "reason why," doesnt include any of the October games.


Also, Trout's WAR was 3rd the last two weeks of the season while Cabrera's was not in the top 30.

I should have also said til the end of the reg season...

 

[obarth]

how so? one is based on objective analysis and the other is based on a gimmick

What does that have to do with what I said? I said those acting as if Trout got robbed are as bad as those acting as if the Triple Crown is an automatic MVP. Saying Trout got robbed is based on objective analysis? No it's based on the same kind of arrogance that the old geezers have in their belief of why Miguel deserved to win. Both players had amazing seasons and the BBWA fukked up not having it close and saber geeks are fukking up with their faux outrage.

 

[HHR]

Just curious why you arbitrarily select 9 games ?
Could it be because if you took a more accurate sum of games like say 30 or so you'd have no argument...

From Sept 1

Trout .257/380/455/836
Cabrera .308/378/654/1032

Why select 30 games? Arbitrary end points are fukking dumb.


....that's my point.

 

[HHR]

OPS+ has large bias towards Trout because of much value it values on Park Factors

3 stadiums in the AL west are in the bottom 8, Seattle and Oakland are inept offenses which only compunds the problem.

If the 2 switched jerseys, Miggy would probably have an OPS 25 pts higher than Trout

This post is hilarious. You have no idea how OPS+ or Park Factors are calculated.

Park Adjustments - Baseball-Reference.com

The fact that the Mariners have a shytty offense doesn't skew the numbers AT ALL.

 

[Brozay]

Oh I get it, let's negate the triple crown and World Series appearance and focus on more wins in a tougher division? Okay, check. Sounds like Great White Hope to me.

Nothing is Trout's fault, he did his thing, fukk you talking about him being "stuck"? My bad, you gotta be a teen.

This was just a terrible, terrible post.

 

[Absolut]

and actually its cabrera who had a higher OPS 999/963 with a higher average,more home runs and contrary to false reports made in this thread he was considerably better down the stretch...

OPS+ breh, which factors in the decent gap in the parks they play in. similar to ERA+, which is a better measure than ERA, i prefer the adjusted OPS over the raw OPS number. trout was 6% better with the bat than cabrera was this season. when you factor in the other aspects of baseball instead of ignoring them, (defense and baserunning) it really isnt close who was more valuable this season.

 

[Absolut]

This post is hilarious. You have no idea how OPS+ or Park Factors are calculated.

Park Adjustments - Baseball-Reference.com

The fact that the Mariners have a shytty offense doesn't skew the numbers AT ALL.

i literally had the face the entire time i read that post. one of the many examples of someone shytting on a metric when they have no idea what quantifies it

 

[nomoreneveragain]

This post is hilarious. You have no idea how OPS+ or Park Factors are calculated.

Park Adjustments - Baseball-Reference.com

The fact that the Mariners have a shytty offense doesn't skew the numbers AT ALL.

Ball Park Factors take into all account Runs Scored, the fact that 9 times a year or 27 times over a 3 year span or 11% of the games played or 5.5% innings are accounted for are from the Seattle Mariners.

Frankly I like the way espn calculates ball park factors - 2012 MLB Park Factors - Runs - Major League Baseball - ESPN ... It's less complicated but gets to gist of it easier and the rankings fall inline with Baseball reference.

Look at Yankee Stadium Year to Year in Ballpark factors the Variance is all over fukking place
2009 - 97
2010 - 113
2011 - 108
2012 - 100 ( And this year they set a Franchise Record for Most HR's hit)

OPS+ 100*[OBP/lg OBP + SLG/lg SLG - 1] Adjusted to the player’s ballpark(s)

You Take the Baseformula w/o the Pall Park Factor

Trout's is 162 (Actual 170)
Miggy's is 170 (Actual 165)

Take 100 as the Basescore: Angels Stadium is 92 (+8), Comerica is 104 (-4)

Thats how they get to 170 and 165.

I figured these Stat boys would take into account the road games as well but they don't or it doesn't hold much weight

 

[Absolut]

I figured these Stat boys would take into account the road games as well but they don't or it doesn't hold much weight

it counts road games on baseball-ref and BP. do you know anything about park factors? across all parks in which they played, trouts parks kept offenses 5% below average, while cabreras inflated offenses by 3%. thats quite a gap

 

[Absolut]

all park adjusted stats include the road schedule

 

[HHR]

Ball Park Factors take into all account Runs Scored, the fact that 9 times a year or 27 times over a 3 year span or 11% of the games played or 5.5% innings are accounted for are from the Seattle Mariners.

Frankly I like the way espn calculates ball park factors - 2012 MLB Park Factors - Runs - Major League Baseball - ESPN ... It's less complicated but gets to gist of it easier and the rankings fall inline with Baseball reference.

Look at Yankee Stadium Year to Year in Ballpark factors the Variance is all over fukking place
2009 - 97
2010 - 113
2011 - 108
2012 - 100 ( And this year they set a Franchise Record for Most HR's hit)

OPS+ 100*[OBP/lg OBP + SLG/lg SLG - 1] Adjusted to the player’s ballpark(s)

You Take the Baseformula w/o the Pall Park Factor

Trout's is 162 (Actual 170)
Miggy's is 170 (Actual 165)

Take 100 as the Basescore: Angels Stadium is 92 (+8), Comerica is 104 (-4)

Thats how they get to 170 and 165.

I figured these Stat boys would take into account the road games as well but they don't or it doesn't hold much weight

Even using the method YOU prefer...I guess because it's easier or something...has Anaheim as a much more pitcher-friendly park.



...and if you completely ignore park factor, lets see what happens. Based solely on simple OPS, Cabrera was the BEST HITTER IN THE LEAGUE. Mike Trout was SECOND.

Now, and I'm sure you know this, baseball is more than hitting. Trout was the BEST baserunner in the league and one of the top fielders. Cabrera was among the absolute worst on the bases and below-average at best in the field.

You don't think that the chasm between their non-hitting contributions outweighs the marginal advantage Cabrera had at the plate?

 

[Czerka]

smh

the OC register (local paper in anaheim) writer voted for miggy