Kill Dat Noize
Banned
for the sake of discussion, what are your beefs?
Michael Keaton Would Play Batman Again; Explains Passing on ‘Batman Forever’
- Thread starter KingsOfKings
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for the sake of discussion, what are your beefs?
Real
Location: Under Your Skin
Batman Begins in an origin movie, so it makes sense to not see him until a lil later in the movie. Cuz ya know....he has to sorta become batman.But In a sequel, its unacceptable. Could you imagine watching Spiderman 2 or Iron man 2 and not seeing the hero until 20 minutes into the movie? Lol
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
But In a sequel, its unacceptable. Could you imagine watching Spiderman 2 or Iron man 2 and not seeing the hero until 20 minutes into the movie? Lol
what is the difference? batman is still in the movie plenty.
the first 20 minutes are about introducing the characters and setting the stage for the story. and when batman finally shows up to handle business...
....
Ok first batman's characterization is first and foremost. His screen time and lack of development is another. There doesn't seem to be much care or attention to the character of batman and I understand that burton has a love for the villains for the freaks I got that but for a movie called batman returns he's barely in it.
The catwoman origin is too silly for me and I can deal with silly as long as there's some type of exploration with it but she just starts getting licked by cats and we're all supposed to know that's what makes her immortal.
Penguin and batman's first encounter doesn't happen until way way way late in the movie and even then there's nothing at stake. Max's whole diabolical scheme is half baked at best and to me once the mayoral campaign kicks in it just gets out of hand. They come up with this plan to frame batman but ultimately to what end? just because? Because batman told him he wasn't the mayor? Batman hasn't really thwarted anything up to that point. Even when the circus gang first attacked in the movie a lot of damage was done so batman didn't really do much
He's too reactive in the whole movie and doesn't move the plot forward on his own or do anything proactive except one time where he seeks out penguin.
Where the hell does batman keep blueprints of the batmobile on file?? And why all of a sudden are a band of circus thieves engineers lol? Why is batman the worst fighter ever?
Penguin has this backup plan to kill the first born of Gotham...was he going to do that if he was elected mayor? Or was he that smart where he knew he'd have a backup in case this whole thing blew up in his face? And if that is his ultimate goal, why the hell is his master plan thwarted because he had one train consisting of one train conductor who was easily beaten by batman?
I just never buy the conflict between any of the three main characters. They hate batman for what? Because he's batman and the script says so. Penguin was running for mayor he can get rid of batman easily if he wins. Now had the movie said that he was framing batman in order to be the one who bought him to justice, thus giving him some real points in a run off election that would've been cool but it never did that.
In the first batman there was a clear understanding of why joker wanted batman out of commission. Very clear. But in this one it just seemed like it was there just because. Hell it's more clear in batman forever than it is here
Real
Location: Under Your Skin
The difference is that one is an origin and the other is a sequel. When u watch begins u know u arent gonna see batman for awhile, so Nolan built up to it. In a sequel, there's already a build up and anticipation...so when you dont see him for 20 minutes, you're like "wtf"what is the difference? batman is still in the movie plenty.
the first 20 minutes are about introducing the characters and setting the stage for the story. and when batman finally shows up to handle business...
....
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
right i would definitely agree with you that bruce doesn't get much "development" outside of exploring his relationship with selina. that's the only growth we see in the character. beyond that he's pretty much just the straight down the line good guy who thwarts the bad guys plans. but hey... that's what batman is. perhaps no further exploration is needed to tell a batman story. as a child i don't recall hating batman cartoons because they failed to explore his inner psyche. i was perfectly fine with just watching him fight crime.
as for the catwoman stuff, i could deal with it. the movie plays more like a grim fairy tale anyways so i'm perfectly fine with elements of the supernatural sprinkled in here and there. should we also be bothered by the fact that joker was able to take down a highly advanced, highly technological, fully armored batwing with a really long gun he had tucked in his trousers??
as for penguin i believe he resented batman because he is what he always wanted to be, a freak but one who had the love of the people.
but to me it's still an amazing flick. so moody, so atmospheric, and the batman/catwoman stuff is fukkin pitch perfect. the movie captured that dynamic to a fukkin tee. and at the end of the day that is the real backbone of the film.
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Yeah their relationship is awesome...that works. I like the tone and the atmosphere etc but the story aspects keep kicking me in the balls..so I just ignore them and keep it moving. The reason I don't like the idea of "well they're just out to get him just because" is because the conflict between he and Joker was defined even in simple terms it was easy to understand. Joker's plan was simple and made sense..take over the underworld, kill everyone because he's psychotic. I don't think Penguin resented him; I think his issue with Batman was...that batman was a good guy but again, if he's running for freaking Mayor and let's say he wins, then Batman is a non issue..but whatever, like I said, I still like the flick just have a lot of issues with it that all stem from story. You said it yourself when we were bigging up Batman Forever: the beef between the hero and the villain shouldn't be hard to comprehend and we shouldn't have to guess as to what it is
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
except here is where we differ.
batman begins is boring and batman returns isn't.
batman returns is rich and vibrant, full of colorful characters and spellbinding performances. with batman begins i lost interest long before bruce even dons the cape.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
plus i don't think he liked being outshined.
Right and he said that...Batman gets all of his press. But you can do that with Joker. There's an interesting story to tell with Penguin and Bruce both being kids of fortune and going in divergent paths but whatever...the next director will do that. I appreciate Tim going all out and making his movie the way he wanted to make it but that doesn't change the issues I have with it.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
yea but issues aside, there are still so many great things about it.
you know how i feel about dark knight. i think outside of the joker it really isn't much of a strong film at all. but hey... no version of that movie exists without joker so it doesn't matter. he makes it worth watching.
batman returns has so many more things going for it than things that don't imo.
Real
Location: Under Your Skin
Well, here is where we really differ....you just have bad taste in movies.
Batman begins isn't boring...which is why the majority of ppl have it rated higher than Batman Begins.
And adjectives such as "rich" and "vibrant" are never used to describe anything that has to do with Tim Burton.
Kill Dat Noize
Banned
do you normally base your opinions on what other people say or is this just an isolated incident?Well, here is where we really differ....you just have bad taste in movies.
Batman begins isn't boring...which is why the majority of ppl have it rated higher than Batman Begins.
And adjectives such as "rich" and "vibrant" are never used to describe anything that has to do with Tim Burton.
Real
Location: Under Your Skin
I do when a poster says something ridiculous as if it's common knowledge to back up my claim.