Man of Steel is the most underrated superhero movie of all time.

Well?

  • It is, it is a great movie.

  • Nope, it sucks (I only watched it once)


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Black Nate Grey

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None of that is true...... but I respect your opinion Beloved.

This villain thing is biggest piece of crock ever introduced in this argument against Marvel.

Like other than get more lines of dialogue and do a 15-20 monologue or WWE Raw opening promo.

Not really sure what more do people want?

Most if not all of the Marvel villains atleast been a legit threat to the hero’s

Most if not all of the Marvel villains atleast defeated or beat the hero’s in their initial meet up and forced the hero’s to go back and upgrade and come back stronger.

Most if not all of the Marvel villains have atleast had a final battle with the hero’s that pushed them to their limits.

Most if not all of the Marvel villains caused a shyt load of destruction or killed a lot of people on their path to accomplish whatever goal they were trying to achieve.

Martha
Name me the villains in the MCU better than Zod and the Kryptonians?
MCU light-hearted tone absolutely works against them in the portrayal of their villains. Wack power levels work against them too. You never feel the stakes are that high compared to MoS.

Zod from the beginning is touted as the antagonist, his conflict with Kal-El from the start of the movie is established as personal because of his prior beef with Jor-El. It goes beyond the physical into the philosophical because Kal is a natural birth in a society that genetically engineers it's people, he is an abomination, antithesis to his memory of Krypton. It was a personal conflict that evolved organically in a relatively short span of time and wasn't shoehorned in like the fukking Mandarin. MCU is much more cookie-cutter villian. Zod is more nuanced than most of them. In his own way he is simply trying to revive his people. At the start of the film he is justified in his criticism of Krypton, you can feel a tinge of empathy for his situation.
This monologue alone >>>> anything the MCU has done besides maybe Thanos' threat to Ronan. (Micheal Shannon's acting in this movie was A1 but this scene especially).

This is a villian. This is how you introduce a villian.


This is how you establish the threat of consequences.

Faora on her own as a secondary villain is more terrifying than anything than anything the MCU has done (again, aside for maybe Thanos and Ronan), she went around slaughtering people and kicking Superman's ass. Look at her introduction to Kal:

He doesn't register as a threat at all. You don't have to monologue to establish a threat or a villain. A short, courteous sentence like this will do in some cases.

Ignore the fact that this scene is more epic and awe inspiring than anything the DCEU and MCU have done since (aside from Flight and the final fight). Focus on the interaction between Perry, Jenny and Lombard. This how you establish fear. Lombard's reluctance to help in face of the chaos is a small moment but beautifully done. The villians are sowing chaos, yes, but inspiring heroism in the common person as well.


To show fear and chaos of the common person in the face of disaster doesn't always have to be buildings crashing and thousands of unnamed people dying (though to be fair this film does that in spades) it can be singular moments like this, detached from the hero's predicament but a part of it at the same time.
Note, how eerily reminiscent the scene is of a woman giving birth.

Kal is outnumbered in this film by enemies who are just as strong as he is, are better fighters than he is and are smarter than he is. They are not punching bags like the Chitauri were or Ultrons robots. Faora is ruthless in her slaughter. The World Engine is terraforming the entire planet. The stakes are high. Midway through the movie you knew that humanity was done if Zod won, at the end of the movie you knew that if Zod won humanity was done.


The only time the MCU has even come close to this is maybe Thanos. Otherwise, no. You don't feel the stakes are particularity high.

Thanos (along with the Silver Surfer) is my favorite fictional character, I am going to wait and see if they can do this with Infinity War. MCU films are lots of fun. But it's villains are crap. Plots are shallow and any sense of background nuance is vacant.
Like I said MoS has better villains and done a better job at establishing a threat than anything MCU and DCEU have done since. Never mind other aspects of the film (fights, symbolism, music score, etc).
 

Bryan Danielson

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Wow!!!

It’s one am..... im watching my last ep of Punisher before I call it in for the night.

Zod was straight won’t suit on him and deny that..... be he only is elevated so high because Enchantress, the guy in WW, and Stepphenwolf were kinda shytty.

I’m not sure why Manderin was brought up and he wasn’t shoehorned, it was actually more “bait and switch” with Killian since that was the guy in the end that actually had an actual final fight with the hero......

Somewhat like TDKR did with Talia al ghul..... minus the final fight.

I think to say there were no high stakes in any of those movies is a load of crap or at worst lack of understanding of what was going on and I say that respectfully.

Some movies the stakes were actually the world while some was the safety of ones family. No matter how big or small it’s not right to dismiss it.

Hell you shyt on the Chitarri or Ultron but I can just as easily say if the Avengers had lost humanity was done.... cuz I clearly doubt the aliens and robots was just gonna go about their merry way and leave earth

Martha
 

Bryan Danielson

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Sidenote as I said in several other threads..... at this point man.... there really isn’t any more point or logic to try to shyt on Marvel to propel DC in any way.

That shyt is DONE.

DC and the stanbase just needs to focus on what they got going on or trying to do and not worry so much about anyone else. Cuz it’s silly and these discussions and sometimes arguments are getting worse and worse against them.

I mean, was the purpose of bringing this thread up to distract and avoid talking about JL?

Martha
 

Black Nate Grey

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Wow!!!

It’s one am..... im watching my last ep of Punisher before I call it in for the night.

Zod was straight won’t suit on him and deny that..... be he only is elevated so high because Enchantress, the guy in WW, and Stepphenwolf were kinda shytty.

I’m not sure why Manderin was brought up and he wasn’t shoehorned, it was actually more “bait and switch” with Killian since that was the guy in the end that actually had an actual final fight with the hero......

Somewhat like TDKR did with Talia al ghul..... minus the final fight.

I think to say there were no high stakes in any of those movies is a load of crap or at worst lack of understanding of what was going on and I say that respectfully.

Some movies the stakes were actually the world while some was the safety of ones family. No matter how big or small it’s not right to dismiss it.

Hell you shyt on the Chitarri or Ultron but I can just as easily say if the Avengers had lost humanity was done.... cuz I clearly doubt the aliens and robots was just gonna go about their merry way and leave earth

Martha
1st point) You don't understand, I'm saying Zod is better than not just DCEU villians but MCU villians. Enchantress, Steppenwolf, and Ares utter failure as convincing villians is bunched in the same box as MCU villians for me. Except for Thanos.

2-3rd) Sure the Chitauri and Ultron stakes are kind of high? At face value. They don't even come close to doing it the way MoS did. Avengers 1&2 doesn't try to make you feel the stakes are high, or anything at all really. It just tells you. Which is good enough for the average person I suppose but again, MCU's vapid lack of nuance on full display. MCU failed at delivering a "end of the world" feeling with Ultron or Chitauri.

4th) The scale of the 'stakes' doesn't necessarily matter. I agree. It can indeed be personal or world ending. This doesn't change the fact the MCU has done a piss poor job at making you feel the stakes are high, regardless of scale.

Again, Chitauri or Ultron (or any other MCU Villian) don't make you feel the same way about them as a threat compared to Zod and the Kryptonians. At all.

I'm not shytting on MCU films, I've said they are fun.
But they and the rest of the DCEU pale in comparison to MoS imo.
 

gluvnast

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1st point) You don't understand, I'm saying Zod is better than not just DCEU villians but MCU villians. Enchantress, Steppenwolf, and Ares utter failure as convincing villians is bunched in the same box as MCU villians for me. Except for Thanos.

2-3rd) Sure the Chitauri and Ultron stakes are kind of high? At face value. They don't even come close to doing it the way MoS did. Avengers 1&2 doesn't try to make you feel the stakes are high, or anything at all really. It just tells you. Which is good enough for the average person I suppose but again, MCU's vapid lack of nuance on full display. MCU failed at delivering a "end of the world" feeling with Ultron or Chitauri.

4th) The scale of the 'stakes' doesn't necessarily matter. I agree. It can indeed be personal or world ending. This doesn't change the fact the MCU has done a piss poor job at making you feel the stakes are high, regardless of scale.

Again, Chitauri or Ultron (or any other MCU Villian) don't make you feel the same way about them as a threat compared to Zod and the Kryptonians. At all.

I'm not shytting on MCU films, I've said they are fun.
But they and the rest of the DCEU pale in comparison to MoS imo.

Zod was a dope villain, the best part is that you understood his viewpoint.
 

AnonymityX1000

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1st point) You don't understand, I'm saying Zod is better than not just DCEU villians but MCU villians. Enchantress, Steppenwolf, and Ares utter failure as convincing villians is bunched in the same box as MCU villians for me. Except for Thanos.

2-3rd) Sure the Chitauri and Ultron stakes are kind of high? At face value. They don't even come close to doing it the way MoS did. Avengers 1&2 doesn't try to make you feel the stakes are high, or anything at all really. It just tells you. Which is good enough for the average person I suppose but again, MCU's vapid lack of nuance on full display. MCU failed at delivering a "end of the world" feeling with Ultron or Chitauri.

4th) The scale of the 'stakes' doesn't necessarily matter. I agree. It can indeed be personal or world ending. This doesn't change the fact the MCU has done a piss poor job at making you feel the stakes are high, regardless of scale.

Again, Chitauri or Ultron (or any other MCU Villian) don't make you feel the same way about them as a threat compared to Zod and the Kryptonians. At all.

I'm not shytting on MCU films, I've said they are fun.
But they and the rest of the DCEU pale in comparison to MoS imo.
Ultron as a threat was felt. He carved up a piece of Sakovia and was going to end humanity with it. Avengers actually talked about that day and situation being a fine way to dienor the situation was that serious. Quicksilver, Scarlett Witch, Black Widow, Hawkeye, Ironman all verbalized this.
And the events of A2 resulted directly into the conflict of Civil War seemlessly. People died and their loved ones blamed the Avengers.
 

Wild self

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The whole film industry should be ashamed of themselves for not following up on this almost 5 year old classic.

The symbol of hope is exactly what we need considering out last presidential election...

Heroes in fiction were supposed to inspired people in real life to become better people. Superman isn't perfect, but at least he strives to be a better person every day. People now, in this fast paced world, rather be content with being sub-par and being a follower, instead of a leader.
 

Roman Brady

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The whole film industry should be ashamed of themselves for not following up on this almost 5 year old classic.

The symbol of hope is exactly what we need considering our last presidential election...
:russ: franchise needs a soft rema-reboo-quel
 

detach

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its a good not great movie.....copped the bluray and all but i honestly skip most of the beginning because its just emo nonsense :ld:

Nah it was trash b, super man in general is a lame but super man the animated series made me a fan but this movie man

The first half is super boring
Kevin Costner is a terrible father
And Russell Crowe is a literal deus ex machina
The fights were okay but I'm not a big fan of cgi give me some real stunts to look at
"The beginning is boring" :what: How and wtf were you expecting? It's an origin movie where they had to show how Superman became Superman with the morals he has. It would had been a shyt origin movie if they skip all that and went straight to the actions with zero character development. :snoop:

I was never a fan of Superman, thought he was overpower with too many abilities. And never got why he was such a goody too shoe. MoS gave us his childhood and he was brought up. Questions got answered and understood. What more could you want?
 

AnonymityX1000

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The whole film industry should be ashamed of themselves for not following up on this almost 5 year old classic.

The symbol of hope is exactly what we need considering our last presidential election...
Heroes in fiction were supposed to inspired people in real life to become better people. Superman isn't perfect, but at least he strives to be a better person every day. People now, in this fast paced world, rather be content with being sub-par and being a follower, instead of a leader.
Classic?! :mjlol:

And the hero you are talking about is called Captain America. :mjgrin:
 
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