Libertarians - The Great White Hope

[Mr. Somebody]

Every govt. has the same story. Tyranny.

If you take a step back the Constitution and Bill of Rights are leashes on govt. Its what set us apart fro the rest of the world, and made our forefather* so remarkable. The recognized the nature of govt. and sought to control its growth.

"Congress shall make no law" it starts Right there you can feel the tone and direction.
"we the people" have dropped the ball though and here we are

Yea, as great as that document is, it took the government, nearly a 100 years later to amend it to end slavery whcih begin paving the way for equality in America. The government did that so i think you really have to choose at what year are you comfortable with the laws the government has enforced. I cant really say they are MY forefather because these same men regarded you and I as property and owned black people like property but they definately paved the way whether they meant to or not for where we are today.


Congress can make laws. You're plucking out quotes without context, friend.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is the quote, friend.

It seems more like by your logic you want the people to stand up for what is in the constitution more so an abolishment of government.

 

[DEAD7]

i love how this guy thinks race is not of actual validity

The entire op was pointing out the racial breakdown of the libertarian party... and thats it. What point was there in that other than to race bait?


Ironically though the op points out how white it is, then suggest the GoP adopt some Libertarian views to win over African Americans.

 

[DEAD7]

Yea, as great as that document is, it took the government, nearly a 100 years later to amend it to end slavery whcih begin paving the way for equality in America. The government did that so i think you really have to choose at what year are you comfortable with the laws the government has enforced. I cant really say they are MY forefather because these same men regarded you and I as property and owned black people like property but they definately paved the way whether they meant to or not for where we are today.


Congress can make laws. You're plucking out quotes without context, friend.

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion or or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is the quote, friend.

It seems more like by your logic you want the people to stand up for what is in the constitution more so an abolishment of government.

No my point is that its a leash, and list things govt. cant do. It limits government reach.

... and yes I do want people to stand up for the constitution. I'm not saying it is/was perfect, in fact no one is/did. That's why there is a process in place to amend it.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

No my point is that its a leash, and list things govt. cant do. It limits government reach.

... and yes I do want people to stand up for the constitution. I'm not saying it is/was perfect, in fact no one is/did. That's why there is a process in place to amend it.

I see. So you feel the government should be on the lookout to make sure rights are protected but should largely stay out of affairs regarding commerce between citizens?

How do you feel about taxes?

 

[DEAD7]

I see. So you feel the government should be on the lookout to make sure rights are protected but should largely stay out of affairs regarding commerce between citizens?

How do you feel about taxes?

Taxes should be as low as possible.

As for the tax system, either a negative tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negative_income_tax, or a true flat tax http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/True_Flat_Tax#True_flat_tax (beginning above the poverty line)

 

[villain]

I can understand the distrust of government because that's a perfectly logical response considering history. But when people start talking about how handing over society to concentrated private power will some how lead to a more free and just society, that's where they lose me.

 

[DEAD7]

I can understand the distrust of government because that's a perfectly logical response considering history. But when people start talking about how handing over society to concentrated private power will some how lead to a more free and just society, that's where they lose me.

Its already concentrated in the hands of private powers

 

[villain]

Its already concentrated in the hands of private power

That's my point...
We've seen the kind of tyranny that arises from that, so why would anyone think we would have a more free and just society by letting that private power operate completely unrestrained.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

Its already concentrated in the hands of private powers

Should the government borrow money from the private sector and vice versa.

 

[DEAD7]

Should the government borrow money from the private sector and vice versa.

no.

 

[DEAD7]

That's my point...
We've seen the kind of tyranny that arises from that, so why would anyone think we would have a more free and just society by letting that private power operate completely unrestrained.

What we have now is the product of a union between the two, not either one alone.

 

[villain]

What we have now is the product of a union between the two, not either one alone.

So are you saying that private power, acting alone and unrestrained by government, would lead to more a free and just society?

Its already concentrated in the hands of private powers

What we have now is the product of a union between the two, not either one alone.

Which one is it

 

[MewTwo]

Do you trust libertarians to not harken back to a day when inequality ran rampant. Do you trust humanity at this stage in our development to not need government?

WHen you think about it, it was the government that has had to intervene on behalf of all oppressed people because human beings, left to their own devices clique up and spread demonic filth.

After the civil war, who had to tell the south to treat friends equally - the government
What did the south do after the government promised to stop meddling in their affairs - institute Jim Crow
Who had to pass multiple civil rights legislation - the government
Who had to send troops to walk friends of African Descent to schools just to protect them from demons - the government
Who made it so that you could marry any woman you wanted - the government
Whos legislation brought women closer to equality - the government
Whos programs stimulate the economy when the private sector crashes and burns - the government.
Whos providing better health care to Americans - the government
Whos programs feed homeless people and those on hard times - the government

I think there is a balance here. The government should make sure equality and fair businesses practices are spread throughout the land and make sure that all states are in compliance, at the minimum.

.......Jesus christ you are so lost I don't even know where to begin addressing this.

 

[Mr. Somebody]

.......Jesus christ you are so lost I don't even know where to begin addressing this.

You dont know where to begin because you dont want to get into a conversation where your knowledge of history will be picked apart and crushed, respectfully, friend.

As a first step in a debate, you've already catered to the last phase of losing, personal attacks.

Proves you lost already, friend.

 

[DEAD7]

So are you saying that private power, acting alone and unrestrained by government, would lead to more a free and just society?

I'm saying there is no "power" in private business alone.