Lets Talk African History:"Sahel" West African Civilizations

[Apollo Creed]

I wrote that Naima, which a town in Guinea-Conakry, is near the Ivory Coast. The town is actually Niani (I confused it with a lady I know named Naima). So it is the town of Niani that is near Ivory Coast.

You may have been confused with what I wrote, because I always write Guinea-Conakry to distinguish it from Guinea-Bissau. Both regions were under the Kingdom of Mali, but they are separate now.

Gotcha

 

[BigMan]

Most African Americans should come back pretty strongly to the Mande people, because the Mande people (Mandinka, Mende, Loko, Vai, Susu, Kpelle, Dogon, Bambaran, Soninke, etc.) were targeted in the slave trade. The modern day countries that the Mande people (Mandingos/Malinke/Mandinka) are found in are:

Ivory Coast
Liberia
Sierra Leone
Gambia
Senegal
Guinea-Conakry
Guinea-Bissau
Mali
Burkina Faso
Mauirtania

The Mossi people in northern Ghana, Mali and Togo are also partially Mande. The Mossi history starts with the marriage of a Mamprussi princess to a Mande prince.

Fwiw, the town of Naima, which is in modern day Guinea-Conakry; near modern Ivory Coast border is the birth place of Sundiata Keita. Naima was also the capital of the Kingdom of Mali before it was eventually moved.

i'm repping #WestAfrica now
The Mossi are also in Burkina Faso. they had a large empire i believe too.

so if i'm correct itseems that most west african groups have a Sudanic origin and some (Yoruba, Igbos, Akan, Efik, etc.) were pushed south by the Mande kingdoms and the numerous jihads?

 

[Samori Toure]

i'm repping #WestAfrica now
The Mossi are also in Burkina Faso. they had a large empire i believe too.

so if i'm correct itseems that most west african groups have a Sudanic origin and some (Yoruba, Igbos, Akan, Efik, etc.) were pushed south by the Mande kingdoms and the numerous jihads?

No I don't think that is true. The Mande people pretty much stayed in the countries that I indicated. They were not Jihadists, in fact they did not even make all of the other Mande people or any other people in their region convert to Islam. The Mande people were always very tolerant of other religions, which might explain why African Americans are pretty tolerant of other religions to this very day. So the Mandingos never invaded any land other than the ones in their own territory. They were always more interested in trade.

The Nigerian ethic groups (Yoruba and Igbo) were always were they are right now. The Yoruba had many Kingdoms like Benin, Oyo, etc. I think that the Igbo had a Kingdom called Nri. The Hausa people are actually Chadic, so they came to Nigeria from the East.

When you think of Jihads I think that you are thinking about the Fulani/Fula/Fulbe people. They were the ones that carried out the jihads. They started their jihads in Futa Toro and Futa Jollon, which was in the land of the Mandingos. However, the Mandingos were formidable fighters and they drove the Fulani people East into present day Nigeria. That is how the Fulani got to Nigeria and Cameroon.

The Mande people were pretty much only into trade and education; but definitely trade. The Mande people expanded their kingdom geographically, but it was pretty much for trade and to collect taxes/tribute. The expansion had nothing to do with expanding Islam, because the Mande people did not typically make other people convert; in fact they had great respect for their indigenous religions and didn't even make all of the other Mande people convert. That failure to follow strict Islam and embracing the indigenous belief system might be the reason that a lot of Mandingos joined the people of Songhay, when Songhay rebelled against the Kingdom of Mail.

 

[Apollo Creed]

No I don't think that is true. The Mande people pretty much stayed in the countries that I indicated. They were not Jihadists, in fact they did not even make all of the other Mande people or any other people in their region convert to Islam. The Mande people were always very tolerant of other religions, which might explain why African Americans are pretty tolerant of other religions to this very day. So the Mandingos never invaded any land other than the ones in their own territory. They were always more interested in trade.

I think that you are thinking about the Fulani/Fula/Fulbe people. They were the ones that carried out the jihads. They started their jihads in Futa Toro and Futa Jollon, which was in the land of the Mandingos. However, the Mandingos were formidable fighters and they drove the Fulani people East into present day Nigeria. That is how the Fulani got to Nigeria and Cameroon.

The Mande people were pretty much only into trade and education; but definitely trade. The Mande people expanded their kingdom geographically, but it was pretty much for trade and to collect taxes/tribute. The expansion had nothing to do with expanding Islam, because the Mande people did not typically make other people convert; in fact they had great respect for their indigenous religions and didn't even make all of the other Mande people convert. That failure to follow strict Islam and embracing the indigenous belief system might be the reason that a lot of Mandingos joined the people of Songhay, when Songhay rebelled against the Kingdom of Mail.

Many of the Mande tribes have oral history of coming from East Africa (and some even the Arabian Peninsula) into West Africa. Mandingos are the most prominent Mande group but we cant use Mande and Mandingo interchangeably.

And overall more slaves came from Nigeria/Angola to the new world, but Most of the Mande slaves that did come went to North America and the caribbean, while the Nigerians/Angolans mainly went to South America and the Caribbean.

Mandingos are the most popular tribe of Mande people so their info is probably the most easily accessible for you but like I said we can't use the term Mande interchangeably with Mandingo.

 

[Samori Toure]

Many of the Mande tribes have oral history of coming from East Africa (and some even the Arabian Peninsula) into West Africa. Mandingos are the most prominent Mande group but we cant use Mande and Mandingo interchangeably.

And overall more slaves came from Nigeria/Angola to the new world, but Most of the Mande slaves that did come went to North America and the caribbean, while the Nigerians/Angolans mainly went to South America and the Caribbean.

Mandingos are the most popular tribe of Mande people so their info is probably the most easily accessible for you but like I said we can't use the term Mande interchangeably with Mandingo.

I use it interchangeably, because you really can't separate the Mende and Mandingos in the history of the USA. Both groups were here in high numbers, but they were just all called Mandingos, even though the Mende were clearly not Mandingos; but they were all Mande though. So there is a difference on mainland Africa but for African Americans since no one can remember who came from anymore, then it is just easier to call them what our ancestors called them.

 

[Apollo Creed]

I use it interchangeably, because you really can't separate the Mende and Mandingos in the history of the USA. Both groups were here in high numbers, but they were just all called Mandingos, even though the Mende were clearly not Mandingos; but they were all Mande though. So there is a difference on mainland Africa but for African Americans since no one can remember who came from anymore, then it is just easier to call them what our ancestors called them.

Your post says Mande not Mende.

Mende and Mandingo are one of the many tribes of the overall Mande family. All Mande people pretty much share the same culture and mainly just speak different dialects/languages. The thing is you can't use the term Mandingo when talking about Mande people in general because using Mandingo is making a distinction on tribe.

It's like Geechi and Creole people are African Americans but you wouldn't use the term Creole to describe something a Geechi person did even though they are both sub groups of African Americans.

I`m not trying to be an ass but if you are talking to someone from a Mande tribe, they wouldn't want you using Mandingo to talk about something Mende people did, but if you use the term Mande and just that then nobody would be in disagreement.

 

[Neuromancer]

Excellent fukking drop.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Got some juicy info. Especially for those who claim people of West African descent had nothing to do with the Moors. Apparently there was this dynasty called Banu Ghaniya or people/ Children of Ghana who were apart of the Almoravid dynasty and ruled SPAIN!

Following the collapse of the Almoravid power at the hand of the Almohads in the 1140s, the Banu Ghaniya continued to govern the Balearic Islands as independent emirs until about 1203, with a brief interruption in the 1180s. Later leaders (Ali ibn Ishaq and Yahya) made a determined attempt to reconquer the Maghreb (and in particular Ifriqiya), taking Bougie, Constantine and Algiers,[3] and conquering most of modern Tunisia[4] from about 1180 onwards.

They were influential in the downfall of the Almohad Empire in Eastern Maghrib.[5] In Tunisia Ali ibn Ishaq adhered to the Abbasid Caliphate and was formally appointed by Al-Mustadi with the title of "heir of the Almoravids".[6]

Banu Ghaniya - Wikipedia


So I'm guessing thus dynasty was a mixture of Sonniki(Ghanaian), Sanhaja and Lamtuna. Their dynasty founder was none other than Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Yusuf Ben Ghaniya. Who ruled the Balearic islands of Spain.

@EastCoastNaga @Akan @LordCashmere @Raymond Burrr

So yea people may have to eat their words when they say people of West African descent had zero to do with the Moors.

 

[Samori Toure]

Got some juicy info. Especially for those who claim people of West African descent had nothing to do with the Moors. Apparently there was this dynasty called Banu Ghaniya or people/ Children of Ghana who were apart of the Almoravid dynasty and ruled SPAIN!



Banu Ghaniya - Wikipedia


So I'm guessing thus dynasty was a mixture of Sonniki(Ghanaian), Sanhaja and Lamtuna. Their dynasty founder was none other than Muhammad ibn Ali ibn Yusuf Ben Ghaniya. Who ruled the Balearic islands of Spain.

@EastCoastNaga @Akan @LordCashmere @Raymond Burrr

So yea people may have to eat their words when they say people of West African descent had zero to do with the Moors.

For clarification the Sonniki are a Mande people that founded the Kingdom of Ghana. They are not from the the modern Country of Ghana.

Additionally, I seem to recall that it was the Berber Moorish Almoravid Dynasty that later attacked the Kingdom of Ghana.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

For clarification the Sonniki are a Mande people that founded the Kingdom of Ghana. They are not from the the modern Country of Ghana.

You are aware of who you're saying that to, right? YES. I know the Sonniki are Mande. YES. I know Ancient Ghana=/=Modern Ghana.

Additionally, I seem to recall that it was the Berber Moorish Almoravid Dynasty that later attacked the Kingdom of Ghana.

The destruction of Kingdom of Ghana by the Almoravids has been challenged to be a myth, but anyways, the point is there WERE West Africans who not only helped the Moors in their invasions(I already knew this), but ALSO ruled parts of Iberia.

 

[Samori Toure]

You are aware of who you're saying that too, right? YES. I know the Sonniki are Mande. YES. I know Ancient Ghana=/=Modern Ghana.


The destruction of Kingdom of Ghana by the Almoravids has been challenged to be a myth, but anyways, the point is there WERE West Africans who not only helped the Moors in their invasions(I already knew this), but ALSO ruled parts of Iberia.

My point of clarification was not for you, but for people that might read the thread and not realize that the Kingdom of Ghana is not the same as the modern Country of Ghana. We sometimes lose track of fact that other people might have interest in finding out stuff, but they may not realize that some of these places are not the same.

I was recently reminded of that at Christmas party when people pulled out a map of Africa and pointed to the modern country of Mali and assumed that was in the same place as the Kingdom of Mali. Well we know that it is not, but people at the party were not aware of that.

 

[LoStranger]

My point of clarification was not for you, but for people that might read the thread and not realize that the Kingdom of Ghana is not the same as the modern Country of Ghana.

*cough* *cough* Hidden Colors....

 

[Secure Da Bag]

*cough* *cough* Hidden Colors....

Which one?

 

[Bawon Samedi]

My point of clarification was not for you, but for people that might read the thread and not realize that the Kingdom of Ghana is not the same as the modern Country of Ghana. We sometimes lose track of fact that other people might have interest in finding out stuff, but they may not realize that some of these places are not the same.

I was recently reminded of that at Christmas party when people pulled out a map of Africa and pointed to the modern country of Mali and assumed that was in the same place as the Kingdom of Mali. Well we know that it is not, but people at the party were not aware of that.

My bad.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

*cough* *cough* Hidden Colors....

I know what you're talking about. lol!