Lets Talk African History:"Sahel" West African Civilizations

[Jammer22]

Here's part 2. Also want to give people a heads up. According to the book, it seems that Berber influence was involved with Sahelian polities for a long while, beyond just trade. Any thoughts on that?










Also, the language in the book to describe some people is not PC. Be Warned.

 

[Jammer22]

Last post.

 

[Samori Toure]

Here's part 2. Also want to give people a heads up. According to the book, it seems that Berber influence was involved with Sahelian polities for a long while, beyond just trade. Any thoughts on that?










Also, the language in the book to describe some people is not PC. Be Warned.

There influence was as trade partners. Religion came with that trade.

 

[Jammer22]

There influence was as trade partners. Religion came with that trade.

The images also talk about musical, architectural, and art influence as well as a hand in state formation in the Sahel.

I've never heard of this.

Any thoughts on the second and third images? They mention the Burdam Berbers, who I believe are the same Burdama mentoned in Gassire's Lute. Anyway, it talks about them forming the Namadir empire with another white-skinned people's called Geudula by the Soninke.

I also never heard of any pre-Ghana empire before this.

I'll try and add descriptions to the images. The images are harder to make out on my phone than I thought.

What's your take on this? Or should I take this stuff with a grain of salt?

 

[Jammer22]

@Sonni Was also curious if you ever came across a empire or kingdom? And do any of the oral info seem familiar?

Found an interesting blog:
histoire ouest-africaine - histoiresahelienne.over-blog.com

 

[Jammer22]

Think this should read a little better. If not, I enlarged all the images on Imgur directly, so head on over if you want to read this better.

 

[Jammer22]

A video from HomeTeam History that proposes 5 reasons for Africa's downfall.
Very interesting bit at 7:00 where he mentions Africans projecting moral values from themselves onto other foreigners.

 

[The Wall Is Undefeated!]

Last post.

This reads and looks like complete and utter bullshyt.

 

[Jammer22]

This reads and looks like complete and utter bullshyt.

I don't really know how to post Imgur images like that.

But yeah, it does give me a Clyde Winters vibe, but I didn't dismiss it outright since dude's a native and has some sources...
I really wish I could follow up on the sources cause the oral history he subscribes to follows the Arab "22 white kings were in Ghana" theory, which should be dead at this point.

 

[Samori Toure]

The images also talk about musical, architectural, and art influence as well as a hand in state formation in the Sahel.

I've never heard of this.

Any thoughts on the second and third images? They mention the Burdam Berbers, who I believe are the same Burdama mentoned in Gassire's Lute. Anyway, it talks about them forming the Namadir empire with another white-skinned people's called Geudula by the Soninke.

I also never heard of any pre-Ghana empire before this.

I'll try and add descriptions to the images. The images are harder to make out on my phone than I thought.

What's your take on this? Or should I take this stuff with a grain of salt?

My take on it is that it is b.s. and you never heard of it, because it is not true. The Berbers were basically a bunch of nomads except for the ones in North Africa.

The pre-Ghana empire was Tichit Walata, which was a Mande empire. That empire came into existence before the birth of Christ.

Oualata - Wikipedia

 

[Jammer22]

My take on it is that it is b.s. and you never heard of it, because it is not true. The Berbers were basically a bunch of nomads except for the ones in North Africa.

The pre-Ghana empire was Tichit Walata, which was a Mande empire. That empire came into existence before the birth of Christ.

Oualata - Wikipedia

Good look.
Thought as much.

Soninke doesn't have Berber influence like Songhai, so I really had to know how they could have influenced the Mande city-states culturally. And the architecture at Dhar Tichitt and Nema resembles that near koumbi. So I didn't really buy it.

Was hoping I'd be led to sources I could track down in french but i struck out. Dude should have went into his methodology more. It was badly translated too...

I think ill edit the previous posts with a disclaimer 'psuedo-history' warning.

Or maybe I should ask a mod to delete em?

 

[Jammer22]

Very interesting videos about the African urban centers being true cities and the function os those cities.
Roderick McIntosh and Susan have done a lot of Archaelogical work on Dhar Tichitt and the Sahel.




This next one is about 30 mins long.
Kevin MacDonald is another archaeologist that's done some good work on the Sahel.

He makes the case that Ghana was far more centered on the Mema/Macina region or the Inner Niger Delta than the traditional maps that show it more centered towards the west and centered nearer to the desert.

It kind of looks far more like it's successor Mali in terms of territorial power projection and in it's demographic heart.

He goes on to elaborate over the transition to Ghana to Sosso and then Mali.

Here ya go.

 

[Samori Toure]

Very interesting videos about the African urban centers being true cities and the function os those cities.
Roderick McIntosh and Susan have done a lot of Archaelogical work on Dhar Tichitt and the Sahel.




This next one is about 30 mins long.
Kevin MacDonald is another archaeologist that's done some good work on the Sahel.

He makes the case that Ghana was far more centered on the Mema/Macina region or the Inner Niger Delta than the traditional maps that show it more centered towards the west and centered nearer to the desert.

It kind of looks far more like it's successor Mali in terms of territorial power projection and in it's demographic heart.

He goes on to elaborate over the transition to Ghana to Sosso and then Mali.

Here ya go.

I am going to watch these later. They look really interesting. Before even watching these though I kind of think that Ghana was further East too. Sundiata Keita the first Mansa of Mali was born in Niani, which is in Guinea right near the modern Mali border; and Djenne Djenno is very near Burkina Faso.

 

[Jammer22]

I am going to watch these later. They look really interesting. Before even watching these though I kind of think that Ghana was further East too. Sundiata Keita the first Mansa of Mali was born in Niani, which is in Guinea right near the modern Mali border; and Djenne Djenno is very near Burkina Faso.

Well worth the watch, breh.

It makes sense too.

They discovering that hinterlands in the eastern region that are much more productive and even makes the case that Kumbi Saleh was more of a large trading entrepot than the capital.

This is another video of Kevin MacDonald in which multiple areas could've served as capitals to various dynasties and that Kumbi Saleh was way to close to the desert frontier and lacked surrounding defensive settlements for a capital.

Has some gems. Video is kinda low on volume, might need to turn that sound up.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Dope shyt @Jammer22