Lets Talk African History:"Sahel" West African Civilizations

[BigMan]

oh god, don't tell me you're one of those people

Let's hear your projections so I can laugh

 

[Premeditated]

Let's hear your projections so I can laugh

it's on you to provide the receipt since you layed the claim

if you're saying french is an original black language then you have to say the same thing about spanish, italian and Portuguese

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Fixed

In the case of West Sudanic civilizations like Mali learning Arabic would be much more better suited and needed if we wanna translate those manuscripts. Yeah sure the French speaking world has a "head start" due to the French colonizing that part of Africa but still those modern day Malians can't even translate it. And so without fully knowing these civilization we are still stuck at point 1. Only differences is that French speakers get a "head start."

 

[BigMan]

In the case of West Sudanic civilizations like Mali learning Arabic would be much more better suited and needed if we wanna translate those manuscripts. Yeah sure the French speaking world has a "head start" due to the French colonizing that part of Africa but still those modern day Malians can't even translate it. And so without fully knowing these civilization we are still stuck at point 1. Only differences is that French speakers get a "head start."

arsbic is good too

But what's easier for folks in the Americas to learn

it's on you to provide the receipt since you layed the claim

if you're saying french is an original black language then you have to say the same thing about spanish, italian and Portuguese

pree my thread

 

[Sinnerman]

What's interesting is that in the fifteenth century, it was said that there were five great Caliphs of the muslim world: The Caliph of Constantinople, The Caliph of Egypt, The Caliph of Baghdad, The Caliph of Bornu, and the Caliph of the Sudan(that is Mali/Songhai)

 

[Sinnerman]

Among this people, custom and rules demand that the successor to the king be his sister’s son; for, they say, the sovereign can be sure that his nephew is indeed his sister’s son; but nothing can assure him that the son he considers his own in actuality is.

Regarding the monarchic succession in Ghana/Mali

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Regarding the monarchic succession in Ghana/Mali

Damn.

 

[Sinnerman]

Some more random info

The djina-koï (generalissimo, commander of the “vanguard”) was the only one in the entire army entitled to sit on a rug during the audience with the king; he covered himself with flour instead of dust. The kurmina-fari or kan-fari, whose residence was at Tindirna, was a veritable viceroy. He did not have to take off his headgear or cover his head with dust. The dendi-fari, governor of one of the most important provinces of the empire, the one bordering on Upper Dahomey, was the only one who could speak frankly to the king without fear. The barakoïs alone had the right of veto. It will be recalled that all of them (with one exception) were born of noble women, in contrast to the Askias, all of whom (with one exception) were sons of slaves, of “concubines,” according to the same author. The prince was obliged to heed their veto willy-nilly. One gets the impression that the bara-koïs must have been the former legitimate masters of the soil from whom the Askias usurped the tin-touri, that emblem of power of the earliest occupants of the land. The dirma-koï alone could enter the enclosure of the imperial palace on horseback. Only the cadi could employ the servants of the king. He was entitled to a mat when he came visiting. The guissiri-donké alone could question the king during an audience. Only a Sherif could sit next to him on his “platform.” Eunuchs (an Oriental custom introduced into Africa with Islam) stood to the left of the Askia, who rose only for scholars and returning pilgrims. The Askia ate only with Sherifs, scholars, and their children, as well as with the “San,” even when these were very young. The latter, whose district in Timbuktu was San-Koré (from which the university got its name), constitute the authentic noble class. It should be remembered that meals were eaten sitting on mats around one common platter.

Diop, Cheikh Anta. Precolonial Black Africa

 

[Bawon Samedi]

@Don Drogo

Important question

Do you know if there is any big archaeological findings in Niani, Guinea and Kangaba? Both were both said to be the Mali Empire capital and they were said to even have an Arab quarters. They were said to be quite large. However, Ancient Jenne(not the modern one) is buried and yet we can STILL finding archaeological findings for that city unlike with the two I mentioned which were said to be capitals.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

Some more random info

It should be remembered that meals were eaten sitting on mats around one common platter.

Diop, Cheikh Anta. Precolonial Black Africa

I visualize this...

Africans in the Sahel and East Africa STILL eat like this which is interesting. Meanwhile many people associate this eating style only with Near Easterners.

 

[BigMan]

I visualize this...

Africans in the Sahel and East Africa STILL eat like this which is interesting. Meanwhile many people associate this eating style only with Near Easterners.

They do this throughout Africa and Asia

 

[Bawon Samedi]

They do this throughout Africa and Asia

I KNOW. But many people I know think its only an Asian thing.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

THIS! Repeat THIS is why MORE of the manuscripts MUST be translated!

Yet evidence quite contradictory to the Moroccan claims comes from south of the Sahara, from the Muslim scholars of Timbuktu. Muhammad al-Mahdi's attempt to extend his rule into the Sahara and beyond is mentioned also by Abd al-Rhman al-Sa'di, the author of Ta'rikh al-Sudan, which is an invaluable source for Songhay history, and almost contemporary with Marmol. But al-Sa'di nowhere mentioned that the Moroccan claims over western Sudan were affirmed by any Almoravid precedent. Perhaps such justification was not used in this particular instance, or perhaps al-Sa'di edited it out—we can never know--but his silence rather suggests that such a precedent did not exist at all.

Moreover, there is another scholar, the celebrated Ahmad Baba, who denied without hesitation that any conquest of the Sudan by Muslims in the more remote past ever took place--in a document written in 1024/1616 entitled Al-Kashf wa'l-bayan li-asnaf majlub al-Sudan, ("Enslavable categories among the blacks revealed and explained").

- Masonen & Fisher

Just beautiful.

 

[Sinnerman]

@Don Drogo

Important question

Do you know if there is any big archaeological findings in Niani, Guinea and Kangaba? Both were both said to be the Mali Empire capital and they were said to even have an Arab quarters. They were said to be quite large. However, Ancient Jenne(not the modern one) is buried and yet we can STILL finding archaeological findings for that city unlike with the two I mentioned which were said to be capitals.

I haven't heard anything regarding that, unfortunately, only that there was a great city there once, but you are right about the Arab quarters. They had quarters for Europeans(mostly Italians) as well.

 

[Bawon Samedi]

I haven't heard anything regarding that, unfortunately, only that there was a great city there once, but you are right about the Arab quarters. They had quarters for Europeans(mostly Italians) as well.

I had a hunch they did! Since Southern Europeans UNLIKE the rest of Europe were connected to the Trans Sahara Trade. Damn do you have a source for this? This adds even more layer to debunking the silly idea that West Africans were isolated from everyone else. lol.