Let's stop using NBA Finals record to determine who is the GOAT.

Supa

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Jordan was already deemed the GOAT before he even won a ring. He will remain the GOAT until another player comes along and leads their team to 7+ rings with no Championship losses

Nah, players were saying he was the best and on another level but to the media the narrative was he had to win a title.

Don't forget the narrative was that he couldn't win playing the way he played.

Its harder because the game evolves and moves along and becomes better with better players.....its a piss poor way to compare players from different eras.
Its punishing MJ for the comp he had to face and the era he was in....MJ never got his lunch took by a midget like JJ Barea in his prime in the finals as you said...thats a real ass quantifiable argument.

2011 tilts the argument undeniably in MJs favor too....cuz 5-5 at least is even.

:dahell:

The East had The Ewing Knicks, Bad Boy Pistons, Miller /Smits' Pacers, Brad/Price's Cavs...

Then in the Finals he had to face Magic's Lakers, the Blazers with Clyde, Barkley's Suns, the Sonics with Payton and Kemp, the Jazz with Stockton/ Malone...

He didn't have an easy path and the comp was tough.
 

360Waves

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Nah, players were saying he was the best and on another level but to the media the narrative was he had to win a title.

Don't forget the narrative was that he couldn't win playing the way he played.



:dahell:

The East had The Ewing Knicks, Bad Boy Pistons, Miller /Smits' Pacers, Brad/Price's Cavs...

Then in the Finals he had to face Magic's Lakers, the Blazers with Clyde, Barkley's Suns, the Sonics with Payton and Kemp, the Jazz with Stockton/ Malone...

He didn't have an easy path and the comp was tough.
Jordan couldn’t beat the Pistons until they were old and washed.

That Knicks team was basically Jordan’s version of the Raptors. Had some strong years and even won 60 games one year but were always food in the playoffs. Except Jordan is praised for beating them while LeBron is slandered for “weak comp.”

I won’t even dignify the Pacers and Cavs with a real response. nikka really said Mark Price and Brad Daugherty. You 90s nikkas are shameless :mjlol:

You put any of those teams in a Time Machine to the 2010s and you’re slandering them as “leastern conference fodder” that gives Bron an easy path. :dead:

I won’t even speak on his finals competition because only a brain dead idiot could possibly think MJ played harder finals comp. The KD warriors, 2016 Warriors, and those Spurs squads with Kawhi are dog walking every single team Jordan faced. shyt the Baby Thunder too. :umad:
 

nieman

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Jordan couldn’t beat the Pistons until they were old and washed.

That Knicks team was basically Jordan’s version of the Raptors. Had some strong years and even won 60 games one year but were always food in the playoffs. Except Jordan is praised for beating them while LeBron is slandered for “weak comp.”

I won’t even dignify the Pacers and Cavs with a real response. nikka really said Mark Price and Brad Daugherty. You 90s nikkas are shameless :mjlol:

You put any of those teams in a Time Machine to the 2010s and you’re slandering them as “leastern conference fodder” that gives Bron an easy path. :dead:

I won’t even speak on his finals competition because only a brain dead idiot could possibly think MJ played harder finals comp. The KD warriors, 2016 Warriors, and those Spurs squads with Kawhi are dog walking every single team Jordan faced. shyt the Baby Thunder too. :umad:
The Knicks had Patrick Ewing. The Raptors had no one of that caliber. Lebron also played the Hawks, the Wizards, the Bulls, and no one of merit. Dude also lost to Dwight Howard. If you're counting an old ass Spurs team in which Tony Parker was the best player, and old ass Cs team, then you have to give credit to others as well.

Jordan played in an era in which every team either had 1 A player, or 2 B players. Lebron created, and played in an era in which 2-3 teams had 2 A players, and he still didn't run the tables.

Once you start using narratives, the entire argument falls apart.
 

King Poetic

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That 2014 finals was a ass whopping of a lifetime.. nikkas talking about they can’t breathe because San Antonio turn the air off..

That 2011 finals press conference where lebron told coli nikkas u have to wake up and punched in every day while hes ok was a straight embarrassment
 

Luke Cage

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I measure goatness, simply by how much you dominate your peers during your career.
are you constantly beating them, or are they beating you. or is it give and take.

and how long and consistently were you dominating them.
 

Kunty McPhuck

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GOAT debate #23232485888888887464905748151515151515151515151515968430303030306324242434242424333334869675243849061313131313142324232323213131313212132121212124242525252524242747595953y3636363637773232323232736133030303030495923233232333333332424242424242323294748055835161849595737496057362858586078223232365185960672723232323423

How many time machines built to time heist players out of their era to finally settle the debate. 0
 

Remote

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It would be easier if you all just stopped insisting that there is a GOAT and just treated sports like movies.

It's all just entertainment.

There's nothing to be gained by arguing whether The Godfather is better than The Shawshank Redemption. Just like there's nothing to be gained by arguing whether LeBron is better than Jordan.

Just enjoy them both and shut up.
 

Still Benefited

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Exactly! You see how they want to take an important thing away like Final's record to make exceptions for a certain player they like. The problem is you still have all these other things to factor in like you mentioned that determine who's really the GOAT. The bar is high and has been set already. No curves or exceptions for nobody.


Exactly,people love blaming ring culture as if we only factor in rings. Plenty of people give Lebron credit for taking some of those Cleveland teams to the finals. While also discrediting Stephs rings that he won with KDs addition. Its rings,plus impact,plus eyetest. Lebron is at the bottom of the list on eyetest due to his style of play when we talk about GOATs. For the same reason Tom Brady will be passed by Mahommes with or without 7 rings,Lebron will never pass Jordan,Kobe for most people. Regardless of if he gets 6 or 7 rings. Eye test plays a way bigger role than people want to admit.
 
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Jordan couldn’t beat the Pistons until they were old and washed.

1988 Finals: Pistons vs Lakers
1989 Finals: Pistons vs Lakers
1990 Finals: Pistons vs Blazers
1991 ECFs: Pistons vs Bulls

Sooo if The Bulls didn’t beat The Pistons in 91 it would’ve been…























1991 NBA Finals: Pistons vs Lakers

:mjgrin::mjgrin::mjgrin:
 

IIVI

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Jordan will always be the best of the sport because it's a total snapshot in time. Dude built Nike, made a classic movie, etc.

I think LeBron was a marginally better basketball player, but that's it. The guy optimized the sport, but didn't necessarily innovate a style of play like a Jordan or Curry.

At the end of the day, I don't think people will remember LeBron much off the court after his career is finished compared to Jordan. Like I mentioned in the other thread, Luka is kind of annihilating his regular season milestones, while playing in a more difficult conference. If Luka ever goes to the east those numbers will be passed much sooner.
 
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fifth column

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Jordan couldn’t beat the Pistons until they were old and washed.

That Knicks team was basically Jordan’s version of the Raptors. Had some strong years and even won 60 games one year but were always food in the playoffs. Except Jordan is praised for beating them while LeBron is slandered for “weak comp.”

I won’t even dignify the Pacers and Cavs with a real response. nikka really said Mark Price and Brad Daugherty. You 90s nikkas are shameless :mjlol:

You put any of those teams in a Time Machine to the 2010s and you’re slandering them as “leastern conference fodder” that gives Bron an easy path. :dead:

I won’t even speak on his finals competition because only a brain dead idiot could possibly think MJ played harder finals comp. The KD warriors, 2016 Warriors, and those Spurs squads with Kawhi are dog walking every single team Jordan faced. shyt the Baby Thunder too. :umad:
Le-xplanation on why ya mans is 4*-6 in the finals. Y’all should be aiming for top 5 all time instead of trying to reach the goat level.
 

RoCKetSity256

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Exactly,people love blaming ring culture as if we only factor in rings. Plenty of people give Lebron credit for taking some of those Cleveland teams to the finals. While also discrediting Stephs rings that he won with KDs addition. Its rings,plus impact,plus eyetest. Lebron is at the bottom of the list on eyetest due to his style of play when we talk about GOATs. For the same reason Tom Brady will be passed by Mahommes with or without 7 rings,Lebron will never pass Jordan,Kobe for most people. Regardless of if he gets 6 or 7 rings. Eye test plays a way bigger role than people want to admit.
For the 1s that do give him credit there are probably 100x's more that discredit him for getting there and losing. Thats why 4-6 is such a big talking point for so many people. And that in itself is wild. They dont discredit MJ for only making it 6 times. And also what you accomplished with no help is just as important if not more important than what you accomplished when you were on teams that were head and shoulders above the rest of the league and had the GOAT coach to top it off. And it doesnt matter how you look doing something. lmao @ "its aesthetically pleasing" thats the most bullshyt talking point they use for MJ. 2 points is 2 points it dont matter if you bulldozed your way to the paint and laid it up or if you did a post up fade away middy its still 2 fukking points.


Its crazy that people will give mj credit for liking the way this muhfukka sticks his tongue out and dunks but discredit Bron because his prime lasted longer than most muhfukkas entire nba careers. Again Bron shyt the bed in 2011 hold it against him but also give him credit for getting to the finals basically 5 v 1 and give him his credit for what he did in 2016 the latter far outweighs the former. How many finals did Bron lose because of injury to the 2nd or 3rd best players on his team? Are injuries Brons fault? Was it Mj that kept the bulls healthy for damn near all of those 6 titles hell the fukk no they got incredibly lucky. How many of those titles does mike lose if Pippen is out for the finals? If you got Jordan as the GOAT ok fine but it definitely isnt as cut and dry as alot of yall make it out to be. And at the end of the day its opinion and preference on what you like.
 
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