Let's stop using NBA Finals record to determine who is the GOAT.

[Sleepy Floyd]

Basketball is literally the only sport where you see dudes counting rings to determine a players greatness. Messi finally won a World Cup but even before that he was already established as GOAT in soccer. Barry Bonds is considered one of the best ever, with many arguing he’s the GOAT with no World Series. When you watch NFL media, they’ve readily accepted Mahomes greatness and some already accept him as a GOAT candidate or one of the most talented they’ve ever seen. No one ever says “he has to win xyz super bowls to impress me.”

What’s even funnier is this style of player comparison in basketball did NOT exist in the 70s, 80s or even really 90s. We know this, because Jordan was anointed the GOAT at 6 rings when there are legends every bit as successful as him who also have 6 or more rings (KAJ, Bill Russell). It’s a gatekeeping tool that was developed in the 2000s by fakkit old heads to protect Jordan’s legacy. I also have to believe Nike and the media played a part in pushing this narrative to keep Jordan relevant because he’s too profitable for them.

In reality, Jordan was an excellent wing playing in the worst era of basketball ever. The Bulls were loaded in a weak era. Mf retired temporarily and the team didn’t miss a beat still winning 50+ games and were one suspect call away from getting to the ECF (Nike probably made that call because Bulls in the ECF without MJ is a bad look.)

These are FACTS. Saggy tit old nikkas can stay mad

Jordan was already deemed the GOAT before he even won a ring. He will remain the GOAT until another player comes along and leads their team to 7+ rings with no Championship losses

 

[fifth column]

Bron shyt the bed in 2011 in my eyes. He also made it to the finals damn near single handed (very few have done that Iverson also comes to mind) before that and He turned around and did the impossible in 2016. Did 2011 still happen? Yes but he made up for it. With that being said you cant say rings are the end all be all in a comparison against single players because they are a team accomplishments. No GOAT candidate has ever won a NBA championship by himself and as far as i know no non GOAT candidate has either its virtually impossible. You must have rings to be in the GOAT discussion and in my eyes its a complete body of work that you judge the GOATs off of. Some things are more important to different people thats why i dont judge other people for who they consider as the GOAT. I do have Bron as the GOAT but its because of personal preference and people that dont have him so be it we all dont value everything the same. If you have Mike Bron Kobe Shaq Curry Kareem whoever as your GOAT then thats fine we can compare and talk shyt about but at the end of the day there is no universal unchallenged GOAT its just people arguing who they like more.

MJ is the standard, he is the unchallenged to this point goat.

No player is more relevant to the globalization of the NBA
No player is more impactful on the culture of basketball and shoes
No player is more iconic like that no. 23
No player is as aesthetically pleasing to watch
No player can challenge for goat on their own merits without MJ added to the discussion

 

[RoCKetSity256]

MJ is the standard, he is the unchallenged to this point goat.

No player is more relevant to the globalization of the NBA
No player is more impactful on the culture of basketball and shoes
No player is more iconic that no. 23
No player is as aesthetically pleasing to watch
No player can challenge for goat on their own merits without MJ added to the discussion

All your opinion and they mean no more or less than the next mans.

 

[Diondon]

How about scoring titles, DPOY, All Team Defenses?
And when you stack teams to win and still don't
they should count so we can point and laugh

 

[Roger king]

If you use championships the GOAT is bill russell, if you use longevity and high level basketball its lebron, there are several arguments people can use on this issue.

 

[feelosofer]

Would it have been better if LeBron never made those finals at all than lose 6 of them (like getting there is easy).

 

[Bigblackted4]

Basketball is literally the only sport where you see dudes counting rings to determine a players greatness. Messi finally won a World Cup but even before that he was already established as GOAT in soccer. Barry Bonds is considered one of the best ever, with many arguing he’s the GOAT with no World Series. When you watch NFL media, they’ve readily accepted Mahomes greatness and some already accept him as a GOAT candidate or one of the most talented they’ve ever seen. No one ever says “he has to win xyz super bowls to impress me.”

What’s even funnier is this style of player comparison in basketball did NOT exist in the 70s, 80s or even really 90s. We know this, because Jordan was anointed the GOAT at 6 rings when there are legends every bit as successful as him who also have 6 or more rings (KAJ, Bill Russell). It’s a gatekeeping tool that was developed in the 2000s by fakkit old heads to protect Jordan’s legacy. I also have to believe Nike and the media played a part in pushing this narrative to keep Jordan relevant because he’s too profitable for them.

In reality, Jordan was an excellent wing playing in the worst era of basketball ever. The Bulls were loaded in a weak era. Mf retired temporarily and the team didn’t miss a beat still winning 50+ games and were one suspect call away from getting to the ECF (Nike probably made that call because Bulls in the ECF without MJ is a bad look.)

These are FACTS. Saggy tit old nikkas can stay mad

People always talk about 93-94 when it comes to Bulls not needing Jordan but what about 94-95 before Jordan got there and after he did as a comparison. But I agree with OP overall, stop basing GOAT off rings unless your ready to Keep Bill Russell or make KAJ also the GOAT

 

[RoCKetSity256]

People always talk about 93-94 when it comes to Bulls not needing Jordan but what about 94-95 before Jordan got there and after he did as a comparison. But I agree with OP overall, stop basing GOAT off rings unless your ready to Keep Bill Russell or make KAJ also the GOAT

When people bring up 93-94 its not to say that Jordan wasnt needed you can never say that man wasnt needed its a testament to how great Jordans team was. People love to discredit Lebron because of the talent he has played with it doesnt matter how many times that talent was injured at key points in the season/playoffs and it doesnt matter how far past their prime the talent was it just counts as HOF/ALLSTAR talent when its Lebron. But when its Jordan its just Jordan and company and the rest of the team is disregarded.

 

[Shutdown10]

This is what it's come to? Stop making exceptions and excuses to prop up a player you Stan for. The bar is the bar. Final's record is a huge indicator in this GOAT debate. Players in the GOAT debate all won multiple titles. so this has to be factored in. No curves or exceptions for nobody.

 

[MJ Truth]

Basketball is literally the only sport where you see dudes counting rings to determine a players greatness. Messi finally won a World Cup but even before that he was already established as GOAT in soccer. Barry Bonds is considered one of the best ever, with many arguing he’s the GOAT with no World Series. When you watch NFL media, they’ve readily accepted Mahomes greatness and some already accept him as a GOAT candidate or one of the most talented they’ve ever seen. No one ever says “he has to win xyz super bowls to impress me.”

What’s even funnier is this style of player comparison in basketball did NOT exist in the 70s, 80s or even really 90s. We know this, because Jordan was anointed the GOAT at 6 rings when there are legends every bit as successful as him who also have 6 or more rings (KAJ, Bill Russell). It’s a gatekeeping tool that was developed in the 2000s by fakkit old heads to protect Jordan’s legacy. I also have to believe Nike and the media played a part in pushing this narrative to keep Jordan relevant because he’s too profitable for them.

In reality, Jordan was an excellent wing playing in the worst era of basketball ever. The Bulls were loaded in a weak era. Mf retired temporarily and the team didn’t miss a beat still winning 50+ games and were one suspect call away from getting to the ECF (Nike probably made that call because Bulls in the ECF without MJ is a bad look.)

These are FACTS. Saggy tit old nikkas can stay mad

To be fair, basketball is also the only team sport where one player (and it can literally be ANY position) can really control the whole game on both sides of the court. Players play both offense and defense, you can play the whole game, there are no rules restricting who can and can’t have the ball at any one time. Positions matter less in basketball than any other major team sport.

 

[Shutdown10]

How about scoring titles, DPOY, All Team Defenses?
And when you stack teams to win and still don't
they should count so we can point and laugh

Exactly! You see how they want to take an important thing away like Final's record to make exceptions for a certain player they like. The problem is you still have all these other things to factor in like you mentioned that determine who's really the GOAT. The bar is high and has been set already. No curves or exceptions for nobody.

 

[Miggs]

Bron's Finals competiton was 100% harder than Mike's, but I agree overall.

No excuse for 2011. ZERO.

Its harder because the game evolves and moves along and becomes better with better players.....its a piss poor way to compare players from different eras.
Its punishing MJ for the comp he had to face and the era he was in....MJ never got his lunch took by a midget like JJ Barea in his prime in the finals as you said...thats a real ass quantifiable argument.

2011 tilts the argument undeniably in MJs favor too....cuz 5-5 at least is even.

 

[Miggs]

Exactly! You see how they want to take an important thing away like Final's record to make exceptions for a certain player they like. The problem is you still have all these other things to factor in like you mentioned that determine who's really the GOAT. The bar is high and has been set already. No curves or exceptions for nobody.

They can try,the Finals argument will stand up for 100 years 4/10 no matter the competition is never gonna be seen as GOATed.

 

[Rekkapryde]

Its harder because the game evolves and moves along and becomes better with better players.....its a piss poor way to compare players from different eras.
Its punishing MJ for the comp he had to face and the era he was in....MJ never got his lunch took by a midget like JJ Barea in his prime in the finals as you said...thats a real ass quantifiable argument.

100% agree.

All this GOAT talk is for arguments anyway. It's again opinion at the end of the day no matter what.

The youngins think Paul George The GOAT so

 

[RoCKetSity256]