A.V.
reTIreMEnt: THE ALBUM (01/22) ALL DSPs
True facts. And agreeable. I like IWW better for these very reasons, Illmatic second.
Let's actually have a hip-hop conversation for once... Does anybody else have "IWW > Illmatic"?
- Thread starter RichYung
- Start date
True facts. And agreeable. I like IWW better for these very reasons, Illmatic second.
. And in his own words "name a rapper I ain't influence
Brown_Pride
All Star
lol is there a TLDR version of what's going on in here I really don't want to have to read all this
IWW>Illmatic for people who don't appreciate heart in music. as the first few posters said, production was better in IWW while Illmatic had that certain something that makes it a classic.
They're both classics in my book but Illmatic is like that first high, you spend the rest of your life trying to get it, and always falls short. For people who experienced IWW either at the same time as Illmatic or even first it's hard to appreciate going the 2 years we had with ONLY Illmatic, soaking it in like a fine wine, again, the time in which it was released it essentially was like WOH! wtf is this ear fukking I just got. There was nothing really like it. Then IWW dropped and, IMHO it was solid, a lot of people compared it to the grit of Illmatic and it doesn't hold up, it lacked the heart of a 19 year old NYC thug poet rhyming about life.
Illmatic epitomized the heart of hip hop and transcended mere music, it was a cultural anthem.
IMHO that's what a lot of kids (no disrespect) don't really understand about "old" hip hop, particularly Illmatic. It wasn't just music. It was watching someone JUST LIKE YOU or hearing your voice and that of your friends in media, which didn't really exist at that time, and feeling inspired.
It wasn't just about making money for music labels or going platinum, those were semi-foreign concepts...matter of fact I can't think of one "going plat" type reference in all of illmatic? There might be but it's not the underlining theme of the album.
illmatic lacks that "commercial" vibe that you hear in IWW or in future rap, "visualizing the realism of life in actuality fukk who's the baddest a person's status depends on salary"...no joke as a kid that shyt opened my eyes. That's some shyt that wasn't really being put out there at the time like that, I could relate. Illmatic was about telling how life was for ghetto youth, get yours, grind, overcome by any means necessary, maybe make it, maybe don't.
Memory lane summarizes what Illmatic was/is for those who experienced it as more than just music.
"I rap for listeners, blunt heads, fly ladies and prisoners
Henessey holders and old school nikkas"... that' who understood/stand it.
"Poetry, that's a part of me, retardedly bop
I drop the ancient manifested hip-hop, straight off the block"...that's where it's coming from.
...i mean just the whole damn song is an example of what the SOUL of Illmatic is. A kid talking about a life that a lot of people could relate to.
Take into account the times, the early 90's, crack, gangs, etc, etc I mean to really understand and appreciate Illmatic you have to be able to appreciate the destitution and shyt that kids were living in.
This is an interesting discussion.
First time I ever heard the name "Nas" was in 1997, the year I seriously got into hip hop. I didn't even know It Was Written was Nas's sophomore album until years later: I actually thought IWW was his debut.
Anyway, I loved "The Message" instantly. It really spoke to me, especially the famous "and love changes" part.
The rest of the CD? Boring. I thought "wow this is really well written and I wonder if rap lyrics look this good when written down" (the CD came with rhyme booklets)
But overall I saved The Message and Shootouts - deleted the rest.
I didn't really care for Nas till the absolutely brilliant "Nas Is Like". That shyt was the best stuff I'd ever heard from dude (keep in mind it's 99, and I still don't know Illmatic even exists)
I always wonder: if not for IWW, would I even know Nas existed? Is selling out necessary to make sure your great work doesn't die in obscurity? Do we love Illmatic partly because Nas sold out directly afterward, which makes Illmatic a rare gem?
Then again, would Nas had been bigger if he just stayed true, and let the accolades catch up to him? Sure it's taken 10-20 years to see that Illmatic is the pinnacle of rap, but it's happened nonetheless. Illmatic is so good it makes you reevaluate what hip hop is about. One shouldn't be scared to be a leader
First time I ever heard the name "Nas" was in 1997, the year I seriously got into hip hop. I didn't even know It Was Written was Nas's sophomore album until years later: I actually thought IWW was his debut.
Anyway, I loved "The Message" instantly. It really spoke to me, especially the famous "and love changes" part.
The rest of the CD? Boring. I thought "wow this is really well written and I wonder if rap lyrics look this good when written down" (the CD came with rhyme booklets)
But overall I saved The Message and Shootouts - deleted the rest.
I didn't really care for Nas till the absolutely brilliant "Nas Is Like". That shyt was the best stuff I'd ever heard from dude (keep in mind it's 99, and I still don't know Illmatic even exists)
I always wonder: if not for IWW, would I even know Nas existed? Is selling out necessary to make sure your great work doesn't die in obscurity? Do we love Illmatic partly because Nas sold out directly afterward, which makes Illmatic a rare gem?
Then again, would Nas had been bigger if he just stayed true, and let the accolades catch up to him? Sure it's taken 10-20 years to see that Illmatic is the pinnacle of rap, but it's happened nonetheless. Illmatic is so good it makes you reevaluate what hip hop is about. One shouldn't be scared to be a leader
Brown_Pride
All Star
Of course it makes sense to switch up, make money why the hell not. In short here's what has happened to "real hip hop"
Real hip hop came out and was a reflection of culture, you could relate to someone talking about YOUR LIFE, literally the shyt you seen every day.
Real hip hop wanted to eat.
Real hip hop had to go commercial, it just made sense.
Real hip hop started talking about shyt that most of it's audience couldn't relate to (jets, big houses, stacks, etc, etc)
People made a decision. A. Embrace the new music and fantasize about having all that shyt. B. Reject it because you couldn't relate to it.
For those who chose A. Life went on as normal as album after album was concocted to suit just that.
"I do this for my culture
To let them know what a nikka look like when a nikka in a Roadster
Show them how to move in a room full of vultures
Industry is shady, it needs to be taken over"
It's there in blue. Rather than hip hop being a reflection of what is, it became a "what could be", but then only for a very small few and ultimately it tainted a lot of minds...maybe... into thinking they could and SHOULD try to live those lifestyles.
For those who chose B, shyt gets weird because at some level the music is still representative of life, but then also not, plus well it's all that there is. Part of you wants the old things, but you learn to adapt to the new things, the available things.
Nothing wrong in either case, just trying to give an opinion/perspective.
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
Puff was on calculated bullshyt.
Using effective emotion considering the situation.
to fuel a large selling sellout in full bloom launch of jiggy-Dom.
Which caused what I guess we are considering.
the real last days of the actual culture of American hip hop.
Being an actual principled culture with mores and norms.
Created on actual American soil.
birthed out of purposeful systematic faulty education and economic narcissistic plans of ruin.
If, you really got to really partake in your areas and nationally/regionally.
Where your real bboys/bgirls were.
then you were blessed to witness.
The only real peaceful gathering of black folks.
with no ill in their heart in the ghetto.
Just practicing and getting up with skills, on some real shyt.
Art Barr
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I always thought this comparison was a preference thing. Illmatic is the epitome of 87-94 Hip Hop. It is Rakim, Kane, KRS, Kool G, all rapped up into one perfect blend.
It Was Written, was the album that took Nas out of that era, with the clean drums and samples of TrackMasters I think a lot of people favor It Was Written, because it sounded more contemporary in car systems. Illmatic's vibe was a headphone type of album.
Nas definitely focused on word play more on It Was Written. Its probably the better album lyrically, but I still think Illmatic has the more memorable material.
It Was Written, was the album that took Nas out of that era, with the clean drums and samples of TrackMasters I think a lot of people favor It Was Written, because it sounded more contemporary in car systems. Illmatic's vibe was a headphone type of album.
Nas definitely focused on word play more on It Was Written. Its probably the better album lyrically, but I still think Illmatic has the more memorable material.
Grizzly
Home Run Hitter
I have "It Was Written" AND "God's Son" >>> Illmatic
The production on IWW is nowhere close to Illmatic. Just FYI
But you're describing a personal classic. People who say IWW are just talking music. That is why I say mid 20s is the best age to judge anything if you're not biased and well informed. Nostalgia does not affect you the same. That's as close to objective as you will get. That my personal experience anyway. All that personal stuff you said about Illmatic can be said about us and Stillmatic but we are not calling that better than iww or illmatic.lol is there a TLDR version of what's going on in here I really don't want to have to read all this
IWW>Illmatic for people who don't appreciate heart in music. as the first few posters said, production was better in IWW while Illmatic had that certain something that makes it a classic.
They're both classics in my book but Illmatic is like that first high, you spend the rest of your life trying to get it, and always falls short. For people who experienced IWW either at the same time as Illmatic or even first it's hard to appreciate going the 2 years we had with ONLY Illmatic, soaking it in like a fine wine, again, the time in which it was released it essentially was like WOH! wtf is this ear fukking I just got. There was nothing really like it. Then IWW dropped and, IMHO it was solid, a lot of people compared it to the grit of Illmatic and it doesn't hold up, it lacked the heart of a 19 year old NYC thug poet rhyming about life.
Illmatic epitomized the heart of hip hop and transcended mere music, it was a cultural anthem.
IMHO that's what a lot of kids (no disrespect) don't really understand about "old" hip hop, particularly Illmatic. It wasn't just music. It was watching someone JUST LIKE YOU or hearing your voice and that of your friends in media, which didn't really exist at that time, and feeling inspired.
It wasn't just about making money for music labels or going platinum, those were semi-foreign concepts...matter of fact I can't think of one "going plat" type reference in all of illmatic? There might be but it's not the underlining theme of the album.
illmatic lacks that "commercial" vibe that you hear in IWW or in future rap, "visualizing the realism of life in actuality fukk who's the baddest a person's status depends on salary"...no joke as a kid that shyt opened my eyes. That's some shyt that wasn't really being put out there at the time like that, I could relate. Illmatic was about telling how life was for ghetto youth, get yours, grind, overcome by any means necessary, maybe make it, maybe don't.
Memory lane summarizes what Illmatic was/is for those who experienced it as more than just music.
"I rap for listeners, blunt heads, fly ladies and prisoners
Henessey holders and old school nikkas"... that' who understood/stand it.
"Poetry, that's a part of me, retardedly bop
I drop the ancient manifested hip-hop, straight off the block"...that's where it's coming from.
...i mean just the whole damn song is an example of what the SOUL of Illmatic is. A kid talking about a life that a lot of people could relate to.
Take into account the times, the early 90's, crack, gangs, etc, etc I mean to really understand and appreciate Illmatic you have to be able to appreciate the destitution and shyt that kids were living in.
spliz
SplizThaDon
Fam I think Illmatic is the better album. What I'm sayin is. nikkas gotta be consistent across the board. I'm not really too much talkin bout u Art. Especially after reading what u said about Biggie. All I ask if for nikkas to be fair wit their criticisms. U can't call Nas a sellout for IWW yet turn around and praise Biggie like he was the savior or some shyt. It ain't right. If u gonna point one out. Point em all out. That's all I'm sayin.
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
So, you really want components of the culture fully explained for you.
When, you are supposed to get the principles of the culture on your own merit/discovery.
That creates how real of a bboy you are and why others can not fake it in this culture. I really actually wrote this out, but the problems with guys not building on their own is. It creates toys because it creates a situation.
where there are too many people playing dress up. Yet, not really committing to the actual culture presented.
the problem with giving to much info on here is people are lurking and wanting to use the rubrick of this culture in fallacy. Even more than the sales spike marketing boom era allowed them entry, in large oversaturated population.
Art Barr
I explained big earlier.
You guys who want to be apart of hip hop and rap so bad.
You should know this on your own from diggin in the crate, so to speak.
Also, I have written this out for close to twenty years by now.
Plus, just updated it and cut and paste it from this post.
the actual history of hip hop is available in spots online.
So, go do the full math and knowledge and stop being a toy, and playing with it, playing dress up.
I may post up the full rant, but real talk.
It is toys amoung us and I am tired of sharing with toys.
The same toys, who are culture thieves.
Art Barr
INVADING SOHH CHAMPION
You are calling for toys to be consistent and in the history of this shyt.
it will never happen.
That is why the media/government created this oversaturation method and the subversive ideaology of the two.
It has always worked, so they continue to use it.
Yet, hip hop is a PRESCIENT CULTURE.
Meaning its people are prescient about its mores and apply prescient thought.
to situations that can be avoided by applying its norms/mores to that situation.
To create a pre-emptive and prescient accurate reaction to effective remedy the situation.
Our situation is we are getting away from the culture.
By outside forces we have effective norms and mores, to use prescient thought to fight against these attacks.
It is just the people who are supposed to be about this culture.
Are not really about this culture and are toys.
So, this ideaology and skill of prescient social thought and action. is not employed, and is purposefully shielded.
from any person who gains knowledge of our culture as an actual marketed destructive and social corrosive science and even business.
Art Barr
That's my SH*T! That laid back track, smooth flow by Nasir.....
"....ya'll ni**as was born, I shot my way out of Mom Dukes..."