Let's actually have a hip-hop conversation for once... Does anybody else have "IWW > Illmatic"?

[Art Barr]

I have "It Was Written" AND "God's Son" >>> Illmatic

You have that in error, too.


Art Barr

 

[NormanConnors]

Iww> illmatic imo, nas was a better mc on that album point blank.

I had both albums when they dropped respectively/opinion validated

Both Classics

 

[CSquare43]

Absolutely.

sidebar: I'm legit shocked at all these folks skipping "Nas Is Coming".

CS.....that sh*t is dope as fu*k.........

 

[Art Barr]

This is an interesting discussion.

First time I ever heard the name "Nas" was in 1997, the year I seriously got into hip hop. I didn't even know It Was Written was Nas's sophomore album until years later: I actually thought IWW was his debut.

Anyway, I loved "The Message" instantly. It really spoke to me, especially the famous "and love changes" part.

The rest of the CD? Boring. I thought "wow this is really well written and I wonder if rap lyrics look this good when written down" (the CD came with rhyme booklets)
But overall I saved The Message and Shootouts - deleted the rest.

I didn't really care for Nas till the absolutely brilliant "Nas Is Like". That shyt was the best stuff I'd ever heard from dude (keep in mind it's 99, and I still don't know Illmatic even exists)

I always wonder: if not for IWW, would I even know Nas existed? Is selling out necessary to make sure your great work doesn't die in obscurity? Do we love Illmatic partly because Nas sold out directly afterward, which makes Illmatic a rare gem?

Then again, would Nas had been bigger if he just stayed true, and let the accolades catch up to him? Sure it's taken 10-20 years to see that Illmatic is the pinnacle of rap, but it's happened nonetheless. Illmatic is so good it makes you reevaluate what hip hop is about. One shouldn't be scared to be a leader

Nas would have been even bigger.
than any of his other peers without selling out.
Plus, would have ushered in the sonic landscape.
that was culturally acceptable and not based.
on past phased out ol school sellout based rnb.
or Mecca envy related sellout rap.
It was all setup for nas.
To be what he was on illmatic without any change in content, character and direction as well.
As 95, although it was an anemiac year, culturally for releases.
saw the explosion of the wu's more relatable gateway rappers.
Raekwon, on obfcl.
who no one knew were making COMPLETELY CODED covert styled drug dealer rap at the time in full.
[toys try to play along and act in revision like they know what all the references and wordplay mean on obfcl. Yet, I know they don't and did not know because I was originally the only guy on the web decyoherijg Wu tang verses bar for bar. Plus, I was the guy who wrote what has been taken as parody now. The original stolen and lifted meaning of biggie smalls verses. Which were stolen online and used in socalled hip hop blog publications as parody pieces. Or later on, became the translation comedy basis for an entire millionaire blog. Based around marketing cam'ron as the focal point. Which is really stolen from me. being the first guy to decypher ghostface verses on Davey d as auran dayspring.]

Yet, their impact was so profound.
it shook all of rap to try to create a mainstream non-coded biting of their content and street pharmacist based styles.
Which is why in 96, the jiggy sellout mash up of nas style technical rhymes.
meets non-coded jayz was released and had 500k print run success in rd, on priority/freeze.
Until, the gza and the changing of their aliases to their wu-gambino style nicknames. Which were all coded to nav around the cowboy and double trouble edicts as well.
Plus, mobb deep just off the sheer impact of nas's technical skill revolution.
Plus, hailing from the same project with qtip as a silent mentor.
Working to ramp them up for a second release were also in the fold socially. As both mobb/rae/ghost ramped up the most in rap history. By the way of real skill, and the technical rhyme revolution.
With nas, being the herald of rap.
after rap was almost killed by the draw of hammer and vanilla ice. As nas was the herald of the legacy of guys, from the actual Mecca of hip hop.
who directly defended not just rap but all of hip hop.
from what would have been the simultaneous destruction of rap as a business and hip hop as a culture.
So, nas was already poised to be and secure the draw, he had on iww.
Yet, nas would have garnered the success without sellout change.
The change in moving from a cultural direction.
to a purposeful downgrading in content and even stature.
to succumb and follow the very market, with no evolution.
That, nas was looked at to actually lead.
Which is why nas is not the leader.
Plus, lacks effectiveness culturally in full.
to be what he should have been.
If nas never sold out,...
Everything would be totally different.

Nas created a wack sellout alternate universe for all of us.
Even people in the culture.
When, we, the people of the actual culture of hip hop.
Used to and had the protection mechanism intact, that nas was the actual herald of.

Nas pretty much Darth Vader'd us all in rap and the culture of hip hop with iww.

Which is why things will never return to normal.
till he Is taken out like krs did melle Mel.
Which is also why jayz's wack sellout culture thief ass even attempted to stalk nas.
even in defeat, jay gained against nas, a sellout version of nas.
To go even against nas is power, but to beat him creates the ownership of actual cultural power.
The last cultural swaying power in hip hop left.




Art Barr


"I am the protege to the legend,.... I know what must be done."

Art Barr

I will do what must be done and bring you his head,...

There can be only one,...

 

[Taadow]

You are calling for toys to be consistent and in the history of this shyt.
it will never happen.
That is why the media/government created this oversaturation method and the subversive ideaology of the two.
It has always worked, so they continue to use it.
Yet, hip hop is a PRESCIENT CULTURE.
Meaning its people are prescient about its mores and apply prescient thought.
to situations that can be avoided by applying its norms/mores to that situation.
To create a pre-emptive and prescient accurate reaction to effective remedy the situation.
Our situation is we are getting away from the culture.
By outside forces we have effective norms and mores, to use prescient thought to fight against these attacks.
It is just the people who are supposed to be about this culture.
Are not really about this culture and are toys.
So, this ideaology and skill of prescient social thought and action. is not employed, and is purposefully shielded.
from any person who gains knowledge of our culture as an actual marketed destructive and social corrosive science and even business.


Art Barr

@Art Barr is kickin' dat SHEEIT TO YOU NICCAS, DOE!

 

[JerseyFinest!]

I always had IWW > illmatic

The notion he sold out on IWW is BS imo

You can tell from a lot of nas rhyme schemes on IWW he was inspired by Rae's OB4CL album. So the sound and theme was in that direction

IWW is Nas at his best lyrically. Only album imo opinion close to it from a Lyricism standpoint is Reasonable Doubt imo.

 

[RichYung]

I always had IWW > illmatic

The notion he sold out on IWW is BS imo

You can tell from a lot of nas rhyme schemes on IWW he was inspired by Rae's OB4CL album. So the sound and theme was in that direction

IWW is Nas at his best lyrically. Only album imo opinion close to it from a Lyricism standpoint is Reasonable Doubt imo.

Yoooooo!!! I SWEAR I said this before. He sounds just LIKE Rae on some of his verses on IWW.

 

[FocusedDaily]

It was written is my personal favorite Nas album. I got tired years ago arguing it if was better that Illmatic with people.

I enjoy it more, and it's aged better IMO.

 

[pointproven214]

nas one time for your mind


When I'm chilling, I grab the buddha, get my crew to buy beers
And watch a flick, illin' and root for the villain, huh
Plus every morning, I go out and love it sort of chilly
Then I send a shorty from my block to the store for Phillies
After being blessed by the herb's essence
I'm back to my rest, ten minutes, some odd seconds

all these syllable rhyming nas is so ill

 

[NvrCMyNut]

illmatic is superior & anyone who thinks otherwise is on some nostalgia and or hipster shyt.

 

[xiceman191]

Damn if nas is a c00n and sellout for dropping IWW than what are these nikkas nowadays

 

[RichYung]

illmatic is superior & anyone who thinks otherwise is on some nostalgia and or hipster shyt.

Nostalgia? Hipster? What's the reasoning behind that ?? I honestly just think it's better. Illmatic is CLASSIC. But I believe IWW is too. Why does a person have to be a hipster for preferring IWW?

 

[RichYung]

Can one of you older guys explain the "sell out" shyt?

 

[pointproven214]

nas murked nas is coming

 

[Brown_Pride]

But you're describing a personal classic. People who say IWW are just talking music. That is why I say mid 20s is the best age to judge anything if you're not biased and well informed. Nostalgia does not affect you the same. That's as close to objective as you will get. That my personal experience anyway. All that personal stuff you said about Illmatic can be said about us and Stillmatic but we are not calling that better than iww or illmatic.

Music is art so there will always be subjectivity too it. "Classic" will always be in the eye of the beholder, always. The point of which is better will always be moot, this is why this debate continues and gets dredged up every blood moon. You can never really have an objective view to music. 20 somethings just barely got wiping their asses down correctly you think they should be the gold standard for music? If i read your post right the less information you have the more qualified you are to make a decision on what good music is?

So ultimately I guess you can have varied levels of appreciation for music. Illmatic is the quintessential hip hop album for what it speaks to ME about, ergo it will always stand out. The point I was making with my post was to get people to look beyond the beats and lyrics of music (past present and future) to appreciate the current landscape it exists in, which then also helps to place it in the annals of "hip hop" history.

I used to HATE, i mean HATE, all southern rap when I was younger, but I learned to appreciate it for what it was and for what it meant to people, particularly from the south.