Melo and lebron are def sweating being guarded by winslow
Winslow did a great job on Melo and even played great defense when he got switched onto Kristaps. Go ask Knick fans, Winslow played Melo amazingly.
Do you even watch games or are you stupid?
Let an elite 19 year old defender drop to 10th in the draft
- Thread starter Draje
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Winslow did a great job on Melo and even played great defense when he got switched onto Kristaps. Go ask Knick fans, Winslow played Melo amazingly.
Do you even watch games or are you stupid?
He had the better DRTG according to basketball-reference.com too until last week tooIsn't Frank the Tank's PER higher
if Justise was so elite then he wouldn't be neck to neck with the blue collar high bball stiff who plays the game the right way
Also, Justise's DRTG is massively boosted by Miami playing slower than damn near the entire league. His on/off is greatly exaggerated because of who he's typically replacing (Deng)
Its real easy to play hard D and not worry about fouling too - Miami's offense damn sure ain't dependent on his production
But I like Justise
I just don't think that Miami is a good place for a rookie because they haven't developed a young player since Wade (still couldn't teach him how to shoot btw).
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He had the better DRTG according to basketball-reference.com too until last week too
if Justise was so elite then he wouldn't be neck to neck with the blue collar high bball stiff who plays the game the right way
Also, Justise's DRTG is massively boosted by Miami playing slower than damn near the entire league. His on/off is greatly exaggerated because of who he's typically replacing (Deng)
Its real easy to play hard D and not worry about fouling too - Miami's offense damn sure ain't dependent on his production
But I like Justise
Lmao oh you're using DRTG? Here, lemme help you out with some stats to better paint a picture of Winslow's defense.
Isolation
Kawhi - 87
George - 79.7 percentile
Butler - 52.3
Winslow - 49
PnR ball-handler
Kawhi - 85
Winslow - 77
George - 68.8
Butler - 21.9
Post up
Kawhi - 99
Winslow - 66th
George - 15.1
Butler - 32.3
George and Kawhi have only defended these 19 and 14 times, respectively, while Winslow is at 31 and Butler 40+
Spot up
Winslow - 75
Kawhi - 71
George - 73.1
Butler - 37.4
MKG hasn't played this year, and it doesn't seem to let you look at last year for those stats.
Opponents shooting 4.1% worse than normal against George, 0.9% better than normal against Butler.
That's how Winslow compares to the other top tier defenders in the league and he's a 19 year old rookie. He's also played a huge amount of minutes for a 19 year old rookie so this is actually a pretty good look.
Now tell me more about how his numbers are bolstered by a slow pace, coming in for Deng, and the like.
Again, being a good one on one defender is one thing - being a game changing wing that allows you to fulcrum your entire defense from the wing instead of the 5 is ENTIRELY different.
I'm not even saying he isn't good. Just that he's not a defensive anchor from the wing like PG/Kawhi/MKG are. The defensive responsibilities aren't even remotely the same. Those guys can end up guarding 3 guys in one possession from the 1 to the 4. Winslow just guards his man with 6 hard fouls. Like.. aite. GJ.
Huge amount of minutes too? He plays 26 a game
off the bench. And does he NOT come in for Deng's dead body? 
Miami's wing rotation is 3 guys 
(and I ain't even gonna bring up the fact that have having him on the floor almost isn't even worth it because of how he can't do shyt on the other side of the ball... at least MKG could work off-ball and rebound... but that's another topic too)If you don't know what Pace is and how it plays into slewing a fukkton of regular/advanced defensive stats, then telling you that Miami is the 29th slowest team in the league won't do anything for you... but its out there for anyone else that wants to laugh at this crappy @CantStop impersonation you putting on right now.
But I like Winslow
not more than Frank, and I think Miami would've been better off with Stanley too... but he definitely needs time to grow. He has a ton in common with Henderson though man.... I don't trust Duke wings at all.Again, being a good one on one defender is one thing - being a game changing wing that allows you to fulcrum your entire defense from the wing instead of the 5 is ENTIRELY different.
I'm not even saying he isn't good. Just that he's not a defensive anchor from the wing like PG/Kawhi/MKG are. The defensive responsibilities aren't even remotely the same. Those guys can end up guarding 3 guys in one possession from the 1 to the 4. Winslow just guards his man with 6 hard fouls. Like.. aite. GJ.
Huge amount of minutes too? He plays 26 a game
If you don't know what Pace is and how it plays into slewing a fukkton of regular/advanced defensive stats, then telling you that Miami is the 29th slowest team in the league won't do anything for you... but its out there for anyone else that wants to laugh at this crappy @CantStop impersonation you putting on right now.
But I like Winslow
You don't watch Winslow, breh. Winslow averages 2.4 fouls a game, has guarded multiple positions in the span of a possession multiple times, and absolutely does anchor the perimeter defense, especially when Deng slides down to the 4.
Also, Winslow has also guarded 4s too (Usually when Stat is in and playing center) in and he's switched onto the likes of Kristaps and Melo in single possessions so what are you talking about?
How many Heat games have you watched because I'm seriously doubting you've watched a thing if you don't see that Winslow is consistently guarding the best offensive player on the other team, in multiple environments (PnR, post, Iso, and spot ups) while improving the overall team defense dramatically in almost EVERY SINGLE LINEUP he's in (Deng in or not) and he's 19 years old.
You're bytching about advanced stats but tell me how the slower pace of the Heat somehow make players miss more shots than average when Winslow is on them? How does the slower pace account for how Winslow is in the top percentile (Which takes pace into account by counting possessions, not minutes played so try again).
As for the minutes comment, he's 19thnall time in minutes played for teenager.
Bosh played more minutes in a season he started as a teenager than all but five others, including LeBron James,, Carmelo Anthony and Kevin Durant. Winslow (27.2 minutes) now ranks 19th, one spot (and 0.1) behind current teammate Luol Deng’s minute average in 2004-05 for Chicago.
And did this nikka act like Winslow is a bad rebounder and off-ball cutter? 
You don't watch the Heat play. Winslow has multiple double digit rebounding games already despite being an elite perimeter defender. Dude is already showing to be a great rebounder and off-ball cutter.
You don't watch the Heat play. Winslow has multiple double digit rebounding games already despite being an elite perimeter defender. Dude is already showing to be a great rebounder and off-ball cutter.
The problem with referencing percentiles in situation matchups on defense is you have to provide the appropriate context (offense/defensive workload, defensive personnel, pace, team role, game/shot situation, scheme and all the other shyt that makes up the noise on that end). He's a solid defender, but he does benefit greatly from the team he plays on. You shouldn't be throwing him in the conversation with Butler, PG, Kawhi or any of the other elite perimeter defenders just yet.
If you're wondering what MKG's defensive stats look like - Vantage Sports - he pretty much was the best perimeter defender last season.
10 pages about a top 10 draft pick who can't start over Luol Deng 
In one breath, "he's an elite defender at 19", in the next breath it's "wait until he's 23". There is absolutely no Paul George or Kawhi in this kid. It's wishful thinking at best and absolute delusion at worst.
In one breath, "he's an elite defender at 19", in the next breath it's "wait until he's 23". There is absolutely no Paul George or Kawhi in this kid. It's wishful thinking at best and absolute delusion at worst.
10 pages about a top 10 draft pick who can't start over Luol Deng
In one breath, "he's an elite defender at 19", in the next breath it's "wait until he's 23". There is absolutely no Paul George or Kawhi in this kid. It's wishful thinking at best and absolute delusion at worst.
Deng's a former all-star. Stanley can't start over a Morris twin. Kaminsky can't start over a Zeller.
Again, it's easy to hold up PG and Kawhi now. In 2011 tho...
PG and Kawhi always had flashes of becoming primary offensive threats, even in 2011.
Deng's a former all-star. Stanley can't start over a Morris twin. Kaminsky can't start over a Zeller.
Again, it's easy to hold up PG and Kawhi now. In 2011 tho...
FWIW Marcus Morris is having a hell of a season and Stanley Johnson isn't half the offensive player he is. Deng at this point in his career is almost useless. I was never sold on Frank the tank.
Show me where you or anyone else said that shyt in 2011 and we good.
edit: And don't pull up no shy about being "AN" offensive thread, because you said "Primary". I'll take "primary" or "first option" please. Thanks.
Show me where you or anyone else said that shyt in 2011 and we good.
edit: And don't pull up no shy about being "AN" offensive thread, because you said "Primary". I'll take "primary" or "first option" please. Thanks.
Indiana Pacers 2010-2011 Player Review: Paul George
O.iatlhawksfan
Biggest homer on the Coli
Can we stop talkin about this guy so much. He was the most talks about player after the draft, more than KAT, Okafor, Porzingis