Latino magazine mad over Empire ask: "Where are the Latinos?"

[loyola llothta]

Dudes went from getting at this latin mag to getting on other black folks. ..it always go back sameway

 

[BigMan]

@IllmaticDelta ive read all that in another thread.

 

[bouncy]

Dudes went from getting at this latin mag to getting on other black folks. ..it always go back sameway

And I was part of it

I just get tired or people saying this stuff, and its taken as fact. I even seen the white guy in the Asap mob battle with other DJs in England say hip hop started in jamaica because of kool herc, ad the crowd was yelling, yeah! If no one go agiamst the lie it would become truth.

@IllmaticDelta ive read all that in another thread.

So why are you making claims that have been proven false? And please don't try to twist things so you won't look bad, like you've been doing.

 

[IllmaticDelta]

This is a loaded question, but for the sake of discussion, let's rock with it. When Blacks were migrating from the south, there were next to no Caribbean's in the United States (A very small percentage of Jamaicans). And the Caribbean's who were here in the country at the time were comprised mainly of Puerto Ricans and Dominicans (Also a very small population). The time when African Americans were migrating from south into cities like Chicago, Philadelphia, Detroit, NYC etc was known as the Great Migration that people put between 1910-1970. During that time, African Americans in the south already had Jazz, Bluegrass, gospel, etc. and It wasn't until the Great Migration that Blacks in various cities started to form their own cultural movements. Detroit had soul music. Chicago had the Black renaissance, and of course you had the Harlem Renaissance. One of the biggest voices of the Harlem Renaissance was Arthur A Schomburg; a black Puerto Rican. He has his own museum named after him in Harlem.

In alot of ways, the south was the genesis of these cultural movements and as people moved abroad into their own individual cities, various cultural movements started popping up on their own. Each movement drawing from it's origins which laid in the south.

The reason HipHop didn't start in the South is simple, Clubbing Culture started in NYC. HIpHop was the ghetto imitation.


You do realize that HipHop or early park Jams began as really b*stardized or "hood" Disco but with Funk (Funky Disco and Disco-Funk) songs instead?













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[IllmaticDelta]

Yeah, that's why we have hardcore hiphop Dj's/producers from the oldschool like 45 King doing mixes like



Grandmaster Flash dropping tapes like

and Marley Marl doing

..those oldschool pioneering HipHop Dj's all played and listened to Disco

 

[IllmaticDelta]

A little on DJ Grandmaster Flowers

The mobile DJ, as we know him, has been around since the early 1940s. Names like Bertrand Thorpe, known for playing 78rpm records through a 30-watt amp, and Ron Diggins, have been cited as some of the first mobile DJs in the UK. Diggins even built his own art deco DJ booth by 1949, complete with home-made mixer, 78rpm double decks, lights, microphone and ten speakers. Jimmy Savile, also from the UK and recently deceased, was also originally known as one of the first mobile DJs, even so much as being one of the first to use two turntables and a microphone in the early 1940s, according to his autobiography. In the late 1940s in Jamaica the mobile DJ was also appearing and later towards the early 1960s, stars were beginning to come out with their sound systems, like Coxsone Dodd, Prince Buster and Duke Reid. In 1959 in the US, DJ John Ausby began making appearances in Brooklyn, New York with his sets. But by far, the single most important mobile DJ to come out of the US was Jonathan Cameron Flowers, also known as Flowers, and later, Grandmaster Flowers. His importance lies in the fact that it was he, who gave birth to the mobile DJ as a movement.




After Flowers the barrage of DJs came. Everyone started deejaying or wanted to become a DJ. After Flowers major DJs either started or started to become known, like Pete DJ Jones, Maboya, Plummer, Hollywood, Lovebug Starski, Disco Twins, Frankie Knuckles and others, then later the hip hop DJs like Kool DJ Herc, Afrika Bambaataa, Grandmaster Flash and Grand Wizzard Theodore for example. Flowers is the unsung hero of the entire recording industry, promoting hundreds, if not thousands of records through his sound system, which was as much the star as him, because of its power, complete with walk-in woofer cabinets, JBL bullet tweeters, Thorens TD-125 turntables and such. Flowers generated tons of sales for the record industry, something that the present day DJ continues to do for them. But it was with and after Flowers that the industry really began to see the importance of the mobile DJ as a selling machine, so much so, that towards 1975 in the US, record pools for DJs came into being, where companies actually gave DJs records to play for them for little or no money.




Flowers hailed from the Farragut Projects in Brooklyn, New York. His first appearance on the scene was as a tagger or graffiti writer. His black magic marker tag “Flowers + Dice” embossed many subway walls and parks in the 1960s, in and out of the vicinity. His official documented appearance as a DJ was in 1969 when he opened for James Brown in Yankee Stadium, a major feat for any serious artist of any kind at the time, especially considering that there were other DJs with systems out there working, like Nu Sounds and King Charles for example.




Besides his powerful sound system, which is what all DJs were recognized for during their reign before the appearance of MCs (later to be called rappers), Flowers, like all DJs then, was also recognized for the records that he played, and the way he played them. His blending and mixing of these, by all accounts, was extraordinary, and it helped to establish him as unique. He was known to throw on records from genres such as rock, hustle or disco, funk, with R&B and sometimes a little jazz. During this period, not all DJs played the same thing. If you wanted to dance to a particular record that you liked, you had to go to the DJ that played it. This is because DJs took to darkening the labels of certain records that their dance crowd liked, so no other rival DJ (or their spies) could identify what it was and play it for their own crowd. Flowers darkened his labels, probably with a magic marker. Soon DJs began soaking labels completely off records all together. This method and technique only lasted a few years. The end of it helped destroy the uniqueness of the DJ’s record sets, as far as what they played, because soon, everyone began playing the exact same records in their sets.




Some of the records that Flowers was known for playing include “Space Age” by the Jimmy Castor Bunch, “Sunnin’ And Funnin’ by MFSB, “Somebody’s Gotta Go” by Mike and Bill. “Touch and Go” by Ecstasy, Passion and Pain, “Changes” by Vernon Burch and “Messin’ With My Mind” by Labelle. Another favorite of his was the rock group Babe Ruth’s “The Mexican” (which would later become a hip hop staple as a breakbeat record and sample). He would mix that with James Brown material, and he was also known to on occasion, use three turntables simultaneously. (He would combine Chic’s “Good Times,” MFSB’s “Love Is The Message,” and Vaughan Mason and Crew’s “Bounce Skate Roll Bounce” for example.)




The venues for a DJ during that period included many parks, beaches, roller skating rinks, school gyms, hotels and community centers. Flowers, like other DJs, played places like the Hotel Diplomat, Hotel St. George, Leviticus, Club 371, Club Saturn, Manhattan Center, New York Coliseum, Stardust Ballroom, Riis Beach and Prospect Park to name a small few. If there was more than one DJ billed at a venue on a flyer (the most prominent method of promotion for DJs at the time, with radio promotion announcements being the second), they were usually billed in “versus” fashion, and labeled as battles. In that regard, Flowers battled a few, including Pete DJ Jones, Maboya, the Smith Bros., Fantasia, and the Disco Twins. It wasn’t just their music repertoires pitted against each other, but their sound systems.




DJs did a lot of traveling from venue to venue, and many times the venues were not located in the best of communities. Occasionally they were subjected to thieves stealing their equipment. Flowers was no different, so after he himself was robbed of his speakers, he began carrying a .357 Magnum for protection. It was big enough for people to see, and helped curtail further incidents.




For most of the DJs from the 1960s, their popularity began to wane during the late 1970s and early ‘80s. This was due to the emergence of the hip hop DJs and their MCs. Gigs for them became few and far between. Some tried to compete by getting their own MCs. Others were not able to compete at all. During this same period, the crack epidemic began to emerge. As time went on, Flowers would become the victim of declining popularity and hard drugs. His last known appearance in the music capacity was as the sound man for the hip hop group X-Clan in the early 1990s. He was literally spotted on the streets and given the job by the group members who remembered his significance in the industry. By the time of his death in 1992, Flowers was homeless and dependent on drugs. His name in later years would become legend among DJs who heard about his importance to the culture of deejaying.

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Pete Dj Jones

In the early 1970’s when disco was monopolizing the mainstream radio waves, the movement of rap was just being born. A man by the name of Pete DJ Jones was about the most notable DJ during those early days of disco. Pete epitomized the true meaning of a DJ. He had the precision timing necessary to enable the partygoer to do the hustle or dance nonstop while keeping the break of a record continuously playing. He had a clean mixing style and an excellent sound system. Pete DJ Jones was New York’s number 1 DJ. He had an MC named KC the Prince of Soul who was the first real MC of the Disco era. Now don’t get me wrong, during the early days, an MC was the master of ceremony and the host of the party, show, or gathering. He orientated the crowd to where they were, the DJ’s name, and also motivated the audience to have a good time. Pete had other MCs like JJ the Disco King, JT Hollywood and the great Lovebug Starski. He played at all of the big midtown clubs like; The Iron Horse,Nell Gywnns, Pippins, Nemos, Justines, Ipanemas, Tribeccas, Superstar Cafeteria etc.
Both Kurtis Blow and Grandmaster Flash note that Pete was the first one they ever saw rock two turntables and spin two copies of the same record. This was in 1972.. His influence and his importance should not be understated or overlooked. There are two pieces people should read to understand who this man was and why he was important..

2 other clips

 

[BigMan]

And I was part of it

I just get tired or people saying this stuff, and its taken as fact. I even seen the white guy in the Asap mob battle with other DJs in England say hip hop started in jamaica because of kool herc, ad the crowd was yelling, yeah! If no one go agiamst the lie it would become truth.



So why are you making claims that have been proven false? And please don't try to twist things so you won't look bad, like you've been doing.

why didnt hip hop emerge in the 50s and early 60s? Why didnt hip hop emerge in la? Disco is not an acceptable answer because it was not regional

 

[BigMan]

I see west indians among those names. Why are you so intent on excluding us?

 

[How Sway?]

uh

That's why we got so many gwalla gwalla bytches on our music videos. Like the one that had the brother set up and killed up in the Bronx. They can't get acting /modeling jobs on those gwalla channels because tha are considered too ugly (feo). Those gigs go to white latinos. So they go the hip hop route and piggy off us.

you might be on to someting

 

[bouncy]

@IllmaticDelta I already mentioned everything, ad he still keeps saying, without west Indians there would be no hip hop. I don't know what else to write. He has his MIND made up, and that's it.

 

[bouncy]

why didnt hip hop emerge in the 50s and early 60s? Why didnt hip hop emerge in la? Disco is not an acceptable answer because it was not regional

Yes it was!

NYC was the party mecca of the world!

http://www.redbullmusicacademy.com/magazine/from-disco-to-disco


The case is harder to make today, but once upon a time New York hosted the most numerous and adventurous DJ-led party spaces in the world. Visitors testify they had never experienced anything like it prior to their trip to the city. Some even returned home with the dream of re-creating something of their own.

New York’s influence can be traced back to the moment at the beginning of 1970 when David Mancuso hosted the first in a series of shimmering house parties that came to be known as the Loft. Around the same time, two entrepreneurs known as Seymour and Shelley took over a struggling discotheque called the Sanctuary and became the first nightclub proprietors to welcome gay dancers into a public venue.

 

[J-Nice]

again, -if hip hop was developing without west indians, why didn't hip hop emerge in Chicago, Detroit, Atlanta, Los Angeles, Gary, DC, etc. etc. etc. ?

Hiphop didn't emerge in the cities you highlighted because each city laid it's own foundation for the elements that would later be absorbed into hiphop. Hiphop is comprised of the cultural movements that came from the cities mentioned. No one is denying the contribution the Caribbean brehs played in hiphop, but hiphop is still an African American creation. Ain't no two ways about that.

 

[Tae]

They are...

No they aren't. Ask Brazilian if they are Latino and see what they say. A Brazilian lady made sure she corrected me a few years ago when I called her that.
And if you consider Brazilian Latinos I hope you also consider people from Martinique and Guadalupe Latinos as well since French (their national Language) is a Latin language.
Latinos want to claim Brazilians but Brazilians don't want to be claimed by Latinos.

 

[J-Nice]

The reason HipHop didn't start in the South is simple, Clubbing Culture started in NYC. HIpHop was the ghetto imitation.


You do realize that HipHop or early park Jams began as really b*stardized or "hood" Disco but with Funk (Funky Disco and Disco-Funk) songs instead?

I'm kinda iffy on that because Juke Joints have a long history in the south and you can see the elements of the juke joint being applied to the NY club scene. The Cotton club is evidence of this.

 

[BigMan]

Hiphop didn't emerge in the cities you highlighted because each city laid it's own foundation for the elements that would later be absorbed into hiphop. Hiphop is comprised of the cultural movements that came from the cities mentioned. No one is denying the contribution the Caribbean brehs played in hiphop, but hiphop is still an African American creation. Ain't no two ways about that.

AGAIN QUOTE ME WHERE I SAID HIP HOP IS NOT AFRICAN AMERICAN