Last 18/19 NY Knicks season transmission: "F*** all the haters from you to SAS" See y'all in '20

storyteller

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Knicks basketball is back fam! We spent all summer anticipating a tough year, but one where we get to watch a bunch of young players develop together while a new coach works to establish an actual identity in MSG for the first time since Kidd, Sheed, Thomas and a bunch of vets held it down for all of one season...and on day one they delivered. I'm not gonna get into every player, just guys that I feel will be important or have a chance to be; but let's just dive right in on the cast. I've waited too long to finally be able to watch these guys.

The Vets (let's get 'em out the way):

Tim Hardaway: I expected more from Timmy but in 12 minutes, there's not much time to show a lot. The thing is, our expensive SG did try to establish himself with 8 FGA's in that time...but he wasn't remotely efficient. 3-8 from the field; 1-6 from three for 11 points contributing just 1 assist and 1 board otherwise. When Knox missed his first two jumpers, he drove on his third...that's the rookie. Timmy just kept plowing away at three pointers. This is frustrating because he's really talented handling the rock and attacking from midrange to inside; he doesn't have to be inefficient. Hopefully he was just getting some reps.

Lance: My least favorite Knick turned in a really good performance. He was our best defender for chunks of game time, hit his open looks and even finished inside. He still manages nothing in terms of assists and boards but the defense did shine and 12 points on 5 FGA's over 16 minutes was a serious contribution. Do I trust that floater he hit last night? Not yet, but good on him.

Kanter: It was a Kanter-like performance tbh. 7 points and 5 boards in barely 12 minutes of time. He had a nice post move to score early and then was a workhorse on the glass. He actually made his presence felt inside on a couple of defensive possessions but that was lacking in general, which we just gotta live with while he rocks. Kudos to him for running the floor hard all night, remember Hornacek had to bench him for lackadaisical transitions after made baskets early last season and he had lapses all year. In preseason, he outran bigs.

The Youth (this is what you're here for right?):

Knox: On more than occasion, Kevin Knox grabbed a defensive board in a crowd and handled the rock from end to end. There's something very smooth about his execution and ability to get where he wants on the floor without much flash to his ball handling. 13 pts, 10 boards, 3 assists, 2 steals with 2 out of 5 three pointers falling...a little of everything for the youngster. The tools that shined in summer league still worked against vets. The assists came less from pure playmaking and more from just being willing to make the rhythm pass but that's all you need from someone who projects to become a go-to scorer. Defensively, his reach definitely helped on multiple occasions and he held his own. This was just a promising debut pretty much every which way. Knox should get a few chances to be the PnR ball handler every time out too; he can become truly unstoppable navigating screens with his mix of height, range and athleticism.

Mitch: I could wax poetic on 2 of Mitch's 3 makes being alley-oop dunks or on his 7 boards in just 16 minutes; but I really want to focus on his presence. You normally don't feel a rookie's presence on the court, but the Wizards players KNEW where he was when they attacked. Mitch got some bad fouls, made mistakes, was out of place at times; but he was always racing to be involved and never shy about physicality in spite of lacking some strength. It frustrated Morris to the point of getting ejected and it played a big role in the third quarter run. The kid has a lot to learn and will be in foul trouble plenty early on; but his motor and athleticism are overwhelming. He demands attention on both sides of the court every time out. The only truly ugly thing about his game were his free throws (0-4). Guys...we got one...we got a second round steal.

Frank: For way too long in this one, Frank allowed the other ball handler be THE ball handler. Part of that was the offense, even Trey Burke didn't get as many chances to assert himself; but it was also a matter of Frank not always moving to the action but rather relegating himself. He did make nice off ball cuts though and it got him the ball going toward the basket...he just didn't try to finish enough. He had one nice floater and then a couple of kickout attempts. How he opened the second half however was eye opening. Frank/Mitch makes for an imposing duo in spite of them being barely older than Bow Wow was in Like Mike. The two were key in creating stops that sparked transitions and just a very fast moving offense that ran up a big lead. Frank actually pulled a three pointer in transition on the break and knocked it down. That kinda aggressive confidence in his jumper didn't exist last year. He's still going to take a lot of work, development and molding but the tools are prevalent on runs like that. 5 points, 2 assists and a steal from Frank in just 15 minutes in which all of five actually saw him lead the offense but those were his BEST five minutes of the game and he needs more opportunities to show us what he can do in that role.

And also...Frank for nba all defensive team...get on the bandwagon now.

Trier: Got in the game over Baker and Dotson early, played some ugly defense, but had moments of sheer brilliance attacking in isolation. He's not a PG, he's a pure scoring guard who is already pretty damned good at it. 13 points, 2 boards and 6 FTA's in 21 minutes off 3-7 shooting from the field including a made three. His ability to draw fouls is ahead of the rookie curve by a longshot and his mix of shooting threat and ball handling make him a handful. But defense is something to monitor with him and in this ball movement friendly system; too much isolation can be harmful.

Burke: Speaking of isolations; this system kinda gets away from Burke's strengths. Burke was 2 of 6 from the field for 7 points, 1 assist to 2 TO's and plenty of defensive effort but to his typical mixed results. He kinda needs the rock to be effective and while he had some flashy moments (fast break pass to Kanter for a foul and breaking sending Austin Rivers ankles to the Sunken Place for a pull up make); he was also conspicuously not involved in plenty of plays where Knox or THJ were the focal points. Don't get me wrong, he looked good. The handle is filthy, he can finish inside and his jumper is steady but he needs the rock to be effective and this system shares that responsibility a lot more than the last did. He only got 14 minutes, so maybe a longer burn will help him set himself apart.

Super Mario: It was a mixed bag for Hezonja in his debut but he displayed a lot of promising tools. 8 points on 3/6 including a nice 3 points; 2 assists to 5 TO's; and a few nice defensive moments mixed with absolute exasperation on others. The good, his command on scoring opportunities is almost as smooth as Knox. He's also a willing passer, the TO's tallied up because he was trying some risky passes but that also led to a highlight reel alley oop pass for Mitch. He needs to learn the happy medium as a creator but his willingness to be aggressive with the rock and in creation is great to see. Now defensively...woah boy. There's one point in the first half where he literally just forgets about his man and wanders to the paint ball watching. Lance is left trying to cover two guys and gives up a baseline 3 while Hezonja is running back over extremely late. Hezonja also got stuck on Wall a couple of times early which ended as badly as you'd expect. That said, he did TRY plenty, but his defense was full of mental lapses that can knock a promising multi-tool player out of a starting line-up.

Mudiay: Biggest disappointment of the night to me. He has every tool for getting into the lane but it's some Ricky Bobby first interview ish once he gets there ("idk what to do with my hands"). Tunnel vision kicks in, he evades contact at all costs which means flipping awkward attempts up right before he lands in space somewhere far off from the hoop. It makes no sense and is exacerbated by the fact that he only ever looks to attack the lane. This is literally the first guy I've seen that I DON'T want to see attacking the rack so much. 1 for 6 from the field, 5 assists to 2 TOs and no his defense didn't stand out as poor but it certainly didn't stand out for anything good either. It's frustrating because just a couple of things clicking could turn him into an impact player.

The rest (real quick random thoughts):

Dotson: Led the team in scoring and was really aggressive, maybe playing his contract. I really appreciated the assertiveness he showed and would like to see him get more minutes with the real rotation guys.

Hicks: Not a fan of his game but the side stuff he added was solid. Two man game with Dotson led to 3 assists and active hands netted him 3 steals. Those sorts of contributions can pick a guy's impact up.

Ron Baker: I can't get the image of a spit covered contact going back in his eye out of my head and it ruined his otherwise workman-like solidness for me. That ish was gross.

Vonleh: Disturbingly ugly start his minutes, with two offensive foul TO's and bad defense after. But as he settled in, he knocked down a long jumper and flashed some actual big man handling. 5 boards in 12 minutes...the glass is where his impact will be guaranteed. I want to see more and see how he'd fit with some of these units.

Kornet: +7 feet tall, has legitimate three point range with a quick release...somehow still feels like his game is dated because his feet are apparently two bricks that simply cannot be kicked into gear.

Walker and Allen: They played...

Random: Imagining the dynamic attack we can produce when KP takes his spot at PF between Knox and Mitch will get me through the inevitable lows of this season. Having patience with all these kids should be made easier by the fact we have our draft pick, a franchise player coming back from injury in the future and max space...but their quality of play early is making it tough not to carry some wholly unfair expectations. Temper those family; their kids and they'll have a lot to learn with very no safety net or shields.
 

storyteller

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Three PG's:
PG 1: 14 minutes, 2-6 from the field, 7 points, 1 assist to 2 TO's, 1 steal +2 on the night

PG 2: 15 minutes 2-5 from the field, 5 points, 2 assists to no TO's, 1 steal +7 on the night

PG 3: 16 minutes 1-6 from the field, 4 points, 5 assists to 2 TOs, 1 steal +3 on the night

I get that Burke has flash and Mudiay is aggressive; but the gap in performance within the offense was miniscule and debatable. I'd argue it was close enough between them that you could look to other intangibles when picking the best performer...and by intangibles I mean defense. Only one of those PG's played effective defense.
 

Derek Lee

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Three PG's:
PG 1: 14 minutes, 2-6 from the field, 7 points, 1 assist to 2 TO's, 1 steal +2 on the night

PG 2: 15 minutes 2-5 from the field, 5 points, 2 assists to no TO's, 1 steal +7 on the night

PG 3: 16 minutes 1-6 from the field, 4 points, 5 assists to 2 TOs, 1 steal +3 on the night

I get that Burke has flash and Mudiay is aggressive; but the gap in performance within the offense was miniscule and debatable. I'd argue it was close enough between them that you could look to other intangibles when picking the best performer...and by intangibles I mean defense. Only one of those PG's played effective defense.

I thought Frank played poorly on defense in the first half surprisingly. Got beat off the dribble a few times and got hung up on screens. Played better in the second half
 

storyteller

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I thought Frank played poorly on defense in the first half surprisingly. Got beat off the dribble a few times and got hung up on screens. Played better in the second half

I wouldn't categorize his defense in the first half as poor but especially in three guard situations where he was SF, you could see some communication lapses. There was at least one point where he funneled a man into non-existent help and wound up beat outside for the lay-up that I can recall. I'd have to do a playback to zone in on some of the defensive breakdowns, especially early on.
 

seemorecizzy

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You basing all these assumptions off a singular preseason game is hilarious
you're wilding.
if posting about frank is emotional....then you're an emotional wreck.
relax
if you wanna be real about everything...hezonja did more point guard shyt in this game than the actual point guards :mjlol:
coach said before the season that mario was gonna go play sone point forward
fitz had frank playin sg and even sf:deadmanny:
they dont no where to put him.
 

Ironman

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Trey and Timmy would be such a sick 6th/7th man duo, Trier too.

Bench guys who can just come in and take a$$hole shots and get there's by breaking away from the offense.
Trey, Timmy, Trier, and maybe Mitch would be an interesting unit to me:ohhh:Defensively it be:picard:but that scoring and Money making Mitch on the inside with maybe a Mario at the 4:ohhh:
 

DoubleClutch

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theres no such thing ad positionless basketball lol
its just a catchy phrase
frank played the 2 the entire game and was not giving freedom to run the offensive like the other 2 guards
same shyt happened when horn wss here
i will be monitoring the rest of the pre season to see if fitz trust frank to run the offense, if not, then its pretty telling

frank is not a 2 no matter how tall he gets

If Frank ain’t a 2 and he can’t run the offense what is he then? :patrice:

Ain’t that what position less basketball is?

You can’t define frank easy. I don’t know if it’s good or bad

But he definitely isn’t strong at any specific position

But he can play the 1-3 :manny:

Hopefully knicks and frank figure out how best to use him before Kristaps comes back by the end of the season

We can’t have all these question marks about Frank come 2019:snoop:
 

seemorecizzy

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If Frank ain’t a 2 and he can’t run the offense what is he then? :patrice:

Ain’t that what position less basketball is?

You can’t define frank easy. I don’t know if it’s good or bad

But he definitely isn’t strong at any specific position

But he can play the 1-3 :manny:

Hopefully knicks and frank figure out how best to use him before Kristaps comes back by the end of the season

We can’t have all these question marks about Frank come 2019:snoop:
thats all im sayin fam
he doesnt seem comfortable at any position
mitch and knox seem like they already have their niche already
hopefully theres more clearity by the end of the season
 

DPresidential

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thats all im sayin fam
he doesnt seem comfortable at any position
mitch and knox seem like they already have their niche already
hopefully theres more clearity by the end of the season
One game.


It’s almost like y’all want to be cynical of our 20 year sophomore Knick.
 

seemorecizzy

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One game.


It’s almost like y’all want to be cynical of our 20 year sophomore Knick.
i said in my orginal post that i was making observations about that one game and im gonna keep on an eye on it for the rest of the preseason tho lol
yall so overprotective about frank
i dont think its hate to point out that hes essentially playing the same role he played in horn's offense after an entire summer and training camp
 

storyteller

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Thing about Frank is; He can handle the rock some, make open shots (it's only gonna improve), willing passer, showed ability to find off ball cutting lanes and he can guard the best perimeter player 1-3 (defended Oubre a ton yesterday and that's a legit strong SF). You can find a place in most units for someone with that skillset. Be it placing him next to a true point or a 2 guard with some playmaking; Frank can be slotted into a unit with that type of player right now. He also has the Lance-like quality of improving how other defenders look because of his instincts on rotations. "Where do you play him" is a fair question as far as what's optimal; but he was a fixture in our most effective units last year and led the team in +/- yesterday.

Also, my dude FoE with some great evaluations and video help in this thread,
 
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