Kyrie Iriving will be the 2017-18 NBA MVP

Draje

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Kobe was the best player on the court when he played against the Spurs

Lebron been the best player on the court the vast majority of times he's played Kobe. Look at his record against him.

Who cares? Y'all use context in motion heavy offenses until it comes to discuss Kobe and Duncan when stats are the main thing that matters, not winning and impact.
 

Controversy

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Lebron been the best player on the court the vast majority of times he's played Kobe. Look at his record against him.

Who cares? Y'all use context in motion heavy offenses until it comes to discuss Kobe and Duncan when stats are the main thing that matters, not winning and impact.

You mean the same guy who didn't play defense until year 7? The same guy who shrinks in big moments? The same guy who only started to develop footwork in year 15? The same guy who has no go to move? The same guy who never shot 80% from the line? The same guy who doesn't defend the opposition's best player for entire games? That's a no for me dawg.
 

Mad Good Dro

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The same guy who shrinks in big moments? The same guy who has no go to move?
Haven't watched basketball since 2011 I see..:pachaha:

Oh come on Gil, you're better than this. That's a goddamn, outright lie.

Lebron has taken 136 game-winning/game-tying shots in his career, and they're spread over the whole career. There is only ONE season where he took fewer than 6, and he's had as many as 15 in 2007, 17 in 2008, and 15 in 2013.

I didn't think I'd have to post this again so soon, but you appear intent on acting like it doesn't exist:

2004, attempts first game-winner in just 5th NBA game, makes first game-winner by getting a steal and layup with 16 sec left against the Nets to cap off a 41-6-13 game...at the age of 19.





2005, hits his first game-tying three, right over prime Artest with just 1.7 sec left in regulation in the season opener (can't find video).


Pacers vs. Cavaliers - Game Recap - November 4, 2004 - ESPN



2006, the first player in history to hit multiple game-winners in his very first series right out of the gate.





2007, scores 29 of the last 30 points in overtime in the decisive ECF game, including the game-tying shot in regulation and the game-winning shot in overtime.





2008, hits 7 game-tying or game-winning shots and duels Paul Pierce to the end of Game 7, scoring 45 against a stacked title team with almost no support.





2009, hits that huge fadeaway three to win Game 2 of the ECF against Orlando, and was an inch from nailing back-to-back threes to take Game 4 as well.





2010, one of his better years with four game-winning/game-tying shots, but none of them were particularly special so I'll throw up his buzzer-beater from 2009 instead:





2011, dominates every 4th quarter against Chicago in the playoffs, including the elimination game where he scored the final 10 points while holding Rose to 1-10 shooting to come back and win.





2012, the title run (with both Bosh and Wade hurting) goes without saying, especially Game 6 against Boston





2013, an even more impressive title run, especially the huge shots in Game 1 against Indiana, and Game 6 and Game 7 against San Antonio.









2014, drains that classic buzzer-beater three against the Warriors.





2015, when he not only called his own number to make that enormous game-winner in the ECSF against the Bulls, but took pretty much EVERY damn shot against the Warriors in the Finals while his entire team was in the ER.





2016, scores 9 of the final 12 points in Game 7 of the NBA Finals and had the clutchest block in NBA history to cap off the greatest 3-game stretch in Finals history





2017, hit big threes against the Bucks and the Wizards to win games.





I mean, you're right, other than hitting 42 game-tying or game-winning shots over the course of his career (including 8 in the playoffs > Kobe's 7), and having the best clutch time stats in the NBA nearly every year, he's certainly tried to keep those situations to an absolute minimum.

:comeon:




The same guy who never shot 80% from the line? The same guy who doesn't defend the opposition's best player for entire games? That's a no for me dawg.
Yall keep bringing up lebron not guarding the opps best player the entire game, When no star player guards the opponent's best player the entire game. The shyt isn't YMCA basketball.:dead:
 

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You mean the same guy who didn't play defense until year 7?

:dead:

He was already getting named to the 1st-team All-Defensive Team by year 6 (got his first votes in year 3), but now he didn't even "play defense" that year. :heh:



The same guy who shrinks in big moments?

You mean every big moment outside of his first playoff series ever (two game-winning shots), his 2006 series against the Pistons (controlled every 4th quarter and won three close matches in nearly beating the heavy favorites), his 2007 Game 5 against the Pistons (29 of final 30 points including game-tying shot in regulation and game-winner in overtime), his 2008 Game 7 against the Celtics (45 points in nearly beating the heavy favorites), his 2009 ECF against the Magic (averaged 39-8-8 and hit the game-winner in Game 2 and nearly back-to-back threes to win Game 4), his 2011 ECF against the Bulls (dominated every 4th on offense and defense), his 2012 ECSF against the Pacers (averaged 30+ in final three games after Bosh went down and they dropped behind 1-2), his 2012 ECF Game 6 against the Celtics (45-15-5 when down 3-2), his 2012 Finals against the Thunder (first title), his 2013 ECF against the Pacers (game-winner in Game 1), his 2013 Finals against the Spurs (came back from 3-2 down with huge performances in Games 6 and 7, including clutch shots in final 30 seconds of both), his 2014 ECF against the Pacers (won in Game 7), his 2015 ECSF Game 4 against the Bulls (game-winner when down 2-1 with Love out and Kyrie hurting), his 2015 Finals against the Warriors (pushed them to 6 with Love and Kyrie out), and his 2016 Finals against the Warriors (greatest 3-game run in NBA history while down 3-1, including 9 of final 12 points in Game 7).

You talking about the player with the highest elimination game scoring average in NBA history, three Finals MVPs including series where he was down 3-2 and 3-1 to stacked teams, and 8 game-winning or game-tying shots in the playoffs.

Yeah, other than that, I'm sure he always shrinks in big moments. :troll:



The same guy who only started to develop footwork in year 15?

Incredible that one of the most efficient post scorers from 2012-2016 didn't have footwork yet. Can only imagine what would have happened if he had started training with Hakeem. Oh, wait...:troll:




The same guy who has no go to move?

What the hell does that matter? :heh:



The same guy who never shot 80% from the line?

So now we're talking about free throws? :mjlol:



The same guy who doesn't defend the opposition's best player for entire games?

What offensive star does now? :dwillhuh:



That's a no for me dawg.

On those arguments? :usure:
 

Controversy

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He was already getting named to the 1st-team All-Defensive Team by year 6 (got his first votes in year 3), but now he didn't even "play defense" that year. :heh:





You mean every big moment outside of his first playoff series ever (two game-winning shots), his 2006 series against the Pistons (controlled every 4th quarter and won three close matches in nearly beating the heavy favorites), his 2007 Game 5 against the Pistons (29 of final 30 points including game-tying shot in regulation and game-winner in overtime), his 2008 Game 7 against the Celtics (45 points in nearly beating the heavy favorites), his 2009 ECF against the Magic (averaged 39-8-8 and hit the game-winner in Game 2 and nearly back-to-back threes to win Game 4), his 2011 ECF against the Bulls (dominated every 4th on offense and defense), his 2012 ECSF against the Pacers (averaged 30+ in final three games after Bosh went down and they dropped behind 1-2), his 2012 ECF Game 6 against the Celtics (45-15-5 when down 3-2), his 2012 Finals against the Thunder (first title), his 2013 ECF against the Pacers (game-winner in Game 1), his 2013 Finals against the Spurs (came back from 3-2 down with huge performances in Games 6 and 7, including clutch shots in final 30 seconds of both), his 2014 ECF against the Pacers (won in Game 7), his 2015 ECSF Game 4 against the Bulls (game-winner when down 2-1 with Love out and Kyrie hurting), his 2015 Finals against the Warriors (pushed them to 6 with Love and Kyrie out), and his 2016 Finals against the Warriors (greatest 3-game run in NBA history while down 3-1, including 9 of final 12 points in Game 7).

You talking about the player with the highest elimination game scoring average in NBA history, three Finals MVPs including series where he was down 3-2 and 3-1 to stacked teams, and 8 game-winning or game-tying shots in the playoffs.

Yeah, other than that, I'm sure he always shrinks in big moments. :troll:





Incredible that one of the most efficient post scorers from 2012-2016 didn't have footwork yet. Can only imagine what would have happened if he had started training with Hakeem. Oh, wait...:troll:






What the hell does that matter? :heh:





So now we're talking about free throws? :mjlol:





What offensive star does now? :dwillhuh:





On those arguments? :usure:

All I read was b-b-buttals

Bron didn't become a decent defender until after he played w/ Kobe in the Olympics. I was off by a year but the fact remains that defense wasn't even on his radar until he was 24.

You're naming all these stats but outside of chasedown blocks can't name 5 signature 4th quarter Bron moments in the playoffs...and he's played a sh*tload of playoff games

I see Greek Freak defending great players, I see KD doing it, I see Westbrook defending other star PGs, I saw Kobe do it for yrs
 

McPiff

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at one point y'all nikkas gotta stop giving trolls attention and let them e-die in a corner :francis:

y'all are letting yourselves get triggered by the same ass arguments over and over :francis:
 

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You're naming all these stats but outside of chasedown blocks can't name 5 signature 4th quarter Bron moments in the playoffs...and he's played a sh*tload of playoff games

2006 1st Game 3: Hits the game-winner against the Wizards to cap a 41-point game (14 in the 4th) and epic duel with Arenas in his first series ever
2006 1st Game 5: Hits 2nd game-winner of the series to cap a 45-point game (20 in the 4th/overtime) and take the 3-2 lead over the Wizards
2007 ECF Game 5: Scoring 29 out of the final 30 points plus the game-tying shot to get to overtime AND the game-winner in 2nd overtime to beat the Pistons
2008 ECSF Game 7: Scores 45 points, including 13 in the 4th, in an epic down-to-the-wire duel with Paul Pierce that nearly knocks off the Celtics
2009 ECF Game 2: The fadeaway three at the buzzer to beat the Magic
2011 ECF Game 5: Switching onto MVP D-Rose in the 4th to hold him to 1-10 shooting while also scoring the final 10 points (by either team) to finish off the Bulls
2013 ECF Game 1: Hits the go-ahead bucket with 10 seconds left, then the game-winner at the buzzer to beat the Pacers in overtime
2013 Finals Game 7: Hitting three dagger jumpers in a row, including one with 27 seconds left only up 2, to defeat the Spurs for a back-to-back title
2015 ECSF Game 4: Overturning Blatt's play to call his own number and hit the game-winner at the buzzer to tie up the Bulls
2016 Finals Game 7: Scores 9 of the last 12 points and has the greatest block in Finals history to finish the comeback over the Warriors.

That was 10 signature 4th quarter moments easy. Compare those to Kobe's 10 "signature" fourth-quarter moments and it ain't even close - Kobe gets washed.

And yeah, Lebron's won a lot of playoff games, but he's 144-71 in those games and most of the wins weren't close. He'd have a lot more "signature moments" if he had played more games where the opponent hadn't already been handled well before the buzzer sounded. There are only so many games that are even in position to have a "signature" finish.



at one point y'all nikkas gotta stop giving trolls attention and let them e-die in a corner :francis:

But then the terrorists will have won! :dwillhuh:
 

Emoryal

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All I read was b-b-buttals

Bron didn't become a decent defender until after he played w/ Kobe in the Olympics. I was off by a year but the fact remains that defense wasn't even on his radar until he was 24.

You're naming all these stats but outside of chasedown blocks can't name 5 signature 4th quarter Bron moments in the playoffs...and he's played a sh*tload of playoff games

I see Greek Freak defending great players, I see KD doing it, I see Westbrook defending other star PGs, I saw Kobe do it for yrs
KD is in a switch everything offense and the only thing Westbrook guards is the post for rebounds foh.
 

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Bron didn't become a decent defender until after he played w/ Kobe in the Olympics. I was off by a year but the fact remains that defense wasn't even on his radar until he was 24.

Four coaches voted for Bron onto the All-Defensive Team the year BEFORE he played with Kobe in the Olympics even though defense "wasn't even on his radar"?

Top-10 in the NBA in steals AND 1.1 blocks/game too without even trying to play defense? That's impressive.



I see Greek Freak defending great players, I see KD doing it, I see Westbrook defending other star PGs, I saw Kobe do it for yrs

The bolded is the biggest fukking joke I've seen. Westbrook hardly defends ANYONE, much less stars. Why the hell do you think that the Thunder have had to start purely defensive Andre Roberson to cover for him for the last 4 years, and Sefolosha every season before that? :gucci:

Bron DOES defend great players, all the time. He's defended Kobe in tons of games over the years, he defended Carmelo, he defended Paul Pierce in all of their battles (except when he got switched onto Rondo who was eating the Cavs alive), he defended D-Rose in the ECF in D-Rose's MVP year, he defended Durant in the regular season and their first Finals.

But there's a reason that Magic was always hidden on defense, Scottie always took the toughest defensive matchup instead of MJ, the Lakers got first Ariza and then Artest to take responsibility for defending the best perimeter player away from Kobe, and Klay/Draymond both have bigger roles on the defensive end than Curry and Durant. Any player taking the main load on offense, especially as they get older, is going to need someone else to step up on defense or they'll become a damn sieve. There is way too much being done on every play now - you can't go 40 minutes as the #1 option on both ends and expect to make it deep in the playoffs.
 
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DIMES

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That's the exact reason why he was playing the way he was in Cleveland, because he was forced into that role - the role where he'd either just be another shooter, or where he'd be the one with the ball trying to break down his man on an ISO, while everyone else just stood around. That's what a large amount of his possessions consisted of. It's almost the complete opposite in Boston. Now he's screening for players, directing traffic on offense, getting the ball out of his hands earlier and moving without it, getting players secondary looks, cutting to the rim and/or funneling back out to an open space consistently etc etc.


He's more inefficient than last year, particularly from deep.

Less ppg, Less assists, more turnovers & less freethrows as well.

Last year's IT4 absolutely dwarfs Kyries production this year by comparison.
 
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He's more inefficient than last year, particularly from deep.

Less ppg, Less assists, more turnovers & less freethrows as well.

Last year's IT4 absolutely dwarfs Kyries production this year by comparison.
Stop looking at the box score, my breh.

Kyrie's actually not averaging more turnovers than last season. Kyrie only has the ball in his hands for 5.3 minutes a game, whereas IT2 had the ball in his hands for 6.7 minutes per game. Kyrie's actually scoring at a similar rate to IT2 on a per minute time of possession scale, now obviously one can't just automatically assume that if Kyrie had the ball in his hands for the same amount of time that IT2 did last season, he'd be able to score the same amount of points, but it's just to show you why his PPG reads as it does.

IT2 averaged 5.9 assists last season, and Kyrie's averaging 5.7 this season - hardly a margin even worth mentioning when you factor in IT2 controlled the ball a lot more. Kyrie's actually been running a better offense (in terms of structure), and has a better 1-2 combination going on with Horford, than IT2 did last season.

Kyrie's been actually putting in a lot of work in shyt that doesn't show up in the box score too (particularly off the ball and on defense), more than IT2 was last season.

It's still far too early to compare their seasons, especially since Kyrie's in a completely different system/environment, with completely different teammates, while having to deal with his co-offensive anchor (Hayward) being out for the rest of the season.

:manny:
 

DIMES

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Stop looking at the box score, my breh.

Kyrie's actually not averaging more turnovers than last season. Kyrie only has the ball in his hands for 5.3 minutes a game, whereas IT2 had the ball in his hands for 6.7 minutes per game. Kyrie's actually scoring at a similar rate to IT2 on a per minute time of possession scale, now obviously one can't just automatically assume that if Kyrie had the ball in his hands for the same amount of time that IT2 did last season, he'd be able to score the same amount of points, but it's just to show you why his PPG reads as it does.

IT2 averaged 5.9 assists last season, and Kyrie's averaging 5.7 this season - hardly a margin even worth mentioning when you factor in IT2 controlled the ball a lot more. Kyrie's actually been running a better offense (in terms of structure), and has a better 1-2 combination going on with Horford, than IT2 did last season.

Kyrie's been actually putting in a lot of work in shyt that doesn't show up in the box score too (particularly off the ball and on defense), more than IT2 was last season.

It's still far too early to compare their seasons, especially since Kyrie's in a completely different system/environment, with completely different teammates, while having to deal with his co-offensive anchor (Hayward) being out for the rest of the season.

:manny:
It still to early I agree :patrice:
 
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