Trojan 24
Veteran
We really need to stop comparing Icons to a guy who's playing in a city that doesn't care if he left tomorrow ![yeshrug :yeshrug: :yeshrug:](https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/yeshrug.png)
![yeshrug :yeshrug: :yeshrug:](https://www.thecoli.com/styles/default/xenforo/smilies/yeshrug.png)
Lol, this is pure cap. If you have to lie to make your case, it's probably a bad case.
2000: Even if the WCF was the "real Finals", Shaq clearly had better #'s than Kobe in that series too.
2001: The Finals was by far the toughest series for LA, the only one where they lost a game and with consistently close games. WCF was an easy sweep with multiple blowouts cause Duncan had a terrible roster that year with Antonio Daniels (career benchwarmer) as his #2.
2002: Even if WCF was the "real Finals", Shaq had clearly better #'s than Kobe in that series too.
There wasn't a single year in the threepeat where Kobe had better numbers against the "real contender". Shaq was better in the Finals every year, better overall in the postseason every year, and better in the toughest series every year.
Bullshyt, caught you lying again. Neither of those posters who shyt on Kobe there is a "Bron groupie", nor did they mention Bron. You can't be so insecure that you see Bron's face every time someone didn't like Kobe.
@stepbackj34spud is a Celtics fan who shyts on Bron all the time. @Box Factory is a Canadian Raptors fan who rarely talks about Bron but just doesn't like Kobe.
That's just from the first search page. Imagine being so disingenuous that you have to call that person a Bron groupie to try to deceive people.
Why not shyt on Pierce in retaliation? Why not shyt on MJ in retaliation? Nah, we all see where the insecurity lies.
I love bron
LeBron a way better player though.
CLEARLY THOSE ARE BRON>KOBE POSTERS… EVEN IF THEYRE NOT BRON GROUPIES
SORRY, UNLIKE U, I DONT HAVE HARD COPY DATA FOLDERS ON EACH POSTER, SO ITS HARD FOR ME TO REMEMBER WHO IS AND WHO ISNT A LEBRON FANATIC
Every player who dislikes Kobe is pretty much a "Bron >Kobe poster" by default. So should we call every Bron hater an MJ stan now too?
You lied and called them Bron groupies when they clearly aren't. And you used that to justify Kobestans randomly shytting on Bron when no one had mentioned him at all.
You're just affirming what I already said. Y'all are so fukking insecure about LeBron that if anyone shyts on Kobe, you immediately lash out at Bron even if he's not involved.
But now that you realize you were wrong, let's go back to the original claim. You said I was "being fake" and "disingenuous bron slurping nonsense" just because I said that Kobestans brought Bron into the conversation first, and Bron stans only replied. Now that you realize I was right, will that change your assessment?
Of course not.
CLEARLY NOT SIDEKICK NUMBERS.....KOBE WAS OBVIOUSLY THE BETTER PLAYER VS THE CONTENDING TEAMS THOSE YEARS….
AND WHEN U TAKE INTO ACCOUNT DEFENSE
BUT U CONSCIOUSLY CHOSE TO AVOID POSTING ALL THESE NUMBERS, BECAUSE U KNOW U CAN DISINGENUOUSLY MISLEAD BY NITPICKING NUMBERS TO MAKE KOBE LOOK WORSE
lol, Shaq was far more important on defense than Kobe was.
You didn't list the contending teams though, you listed some random teams and left off most of the main contenders.
The 2000 Blazers, 2000 Pacers, 2001 Sixers, and 2002 Kings were the clearest contenders during the threepeat, plus the 2002 Nets deserve a mention by being in the Finals where anything can happen. And Shaq was the better player in ALL five of those series. It ain't even fukking close.
You only listed 1 of those, a series in which Kobe was clearly outplayed, then you added a bunch of series against teams that weren't contenders at all.
lol, Shaq was far more important on defense than Kobe was. He was the rim protector averaging 2.5 blocks/game every one of those postseasons, he had better defensive advanced stats every year, and he actually controlled his assignment in the big matches as well as keeping a decent lid on drives. He had 16 blocks in the Indiana Finals, 17 blocks in the Philly Finals, and 17 blocks in the Kings WCF. It's not surprise that the Blazers, Pacers, Sixers, and Kings only made series competitive by launching a ton of jump shots.
Kobe, meanwhile, couldn't stop Steve Smith or Reggie Miller or Jalen Rose or Allen Iverson or Mike Bibby. Who was the best offensive wing he shut down or even seriously limited during that 2000-2002 run? He had flashes but he wasn't consistently good on that end, by 2001 he wasn't even deserving those all-defensive selections. Remember what Phil Jackson had to say?
“Kobe’s defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league’s all-defensive team. The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn’t played sound, fundamental defense. Mesmerized by the ball, he’s gambled too frequently, putting us out of position, forcing rotations that leave a man wide open, and doesn’t keep his feet on the ground.”
I chose to avoid posting meaningless 1st-round series and easy sweeps full of blowouts? Of course I did.
You were the one who tried to claim this was about "contending series", then you posted a bunch of numbers against shytty teams that had no chance at the title.
Shaq had better regular season #'s every year. Shaq had better postseason #'s every year. Shaq had better Finals #'s every year. Shaq had better advanced stats every year. Shaq had more MVP votes every year. Shaq had a UNANIMOUS Finals MVP vote every year. Claiming Kobe was better in any of those years is an impossible argument by any metric.
And the final point is, y'all are the ones who tried to make this "rings" and claim the title is the only thing that matters. If that's all that matters, then the Finals are it. Claiming the "real Finals" shyt is silly anyways, because no one thought the 2004 Pistons or 2011 Mavs were the worthy contender, yet we all saw what happened. If the ring is all that matters, then how you perform when the ring is on the line should be what matters the most. And Shaq clearly the dominant player in all three of those situations AND in the "real Finals" like 2000 WCF and 2002 WCF too.
Kobe 2000-2002, as a whole, had a similar impact in Finals as Pippen in 1991-1993. I proved that easily and you're still avoiding it.
1991 Finals:
Jordan 31-7-11
Pippen 21-9-7
1992 Finals:
Jordan 36-5-7
Pippen 21-8-8
1993 Finals:
Jordan 41-8-6
Pippen 21-9-8
2000 Finals:
Shaq 38-17-2
Kobe 16-5-4
2001 Finals
Shaq 33-16-5
Kobe 25-8-6
2002 Finals
Shaq 36-12-4
Kobe 27-6-5
Pippen averaged 21-9-8 in his first three Finals with premier, game-impacting defense to MJ's 36-6-8
Kobe averaged 23-6-5 in his first three Finals with inconsistent defense to Shaq's 36-15-4
Plus:
* MJ left the Bulls with the Bulls getting nothing in return, and Pippen still won 55 games and was a shot away from leading them to the ECF and likely the Finals.
* Shaq left the Lakers with them getting Lamar Odom, Caron Butler, and Brian Grant in return, and the Lakers won just 34 games and missed the playoffs.
Anyone trying to claim there was some huge qualitative difference between Pippen as a #2 and Kobe as a #2 is looking through stan-tinted glasses.
It’s crazy how pippen gets all the credit for a deep overachieving regular season team that was good but ultimately only won ONE playoff series without Jordan & that was vs a cavs team the bulls eliminated the last 4 times they matched up. That ‘94 bulls team overrated af
Shaq went to the finals in dwades 2nd or 3rd year in the league penny too... hard to really tell what would of happened but shaq was the x factorNah I hate this narrative. Kobe put the Lakers over the top in the West. Most teams had a big man that could produce numbers to lessen Shaq's impact. No team in the West had a guard that could produce the numbers to minimize Kobe's impact. Kobe was also better defensively than the other elite guards everyone wanted to replace him with.
That's all that had to be said, but everybody wants to fight![]()
I POSTED EVERY SERIES FROM 2001 AND 2002 WESTERN CONFERENCE PLAYOFFS AKA THE REAL COMPETITION
We really need to stop comparing Icons to a guy who's playing in a city that doesn't care if he left tomorrow![]()
Straight facts.whats funny is Kobe/Bron stans in here be trying to act like the other side is obsessed/crazy
from where I'm standing all these nikkas need therapy![]()