Kenny Smith | "LeBron is in my top 10 BUT he’s 10th...Kobe is not top 10" :scust:

[murksiderock]

Point being is LeBron is always overrated despite achieving less than some of his peers. He has 3 rings, same as his classmate in Wade. The same number as Steph Curry who started playing 6 years later.

So if "achieving less" means rings, this is a dumb way to look at achievement, but only 6 GOAT candidates have more rings so it would still make him Top 10, devaluing Jet's statement...

Fortunately we know being a GOAT is more than ring count, otherwise, I know a guy who has more titles than anybody and no one is even close to his ring count, so the GOAT debate is open and shut if that's all it's about...

Dude.... it's like I swear these nikkas are 16 year olds....... Kobe at his best had peers for maybe 3 to 5 years tops... and the only one that mattered for real was T Mac... not Ray, not Piru P, not anybody...... but Tracy.... the only other person you could compare Kobe to at his peak was an arguable undisputed GOAT, who had already left the game but his legend lived on... but somehow, egghead online mofos can pseudo justify ranking him outside the top 10 of all time..... boy this world gon be a global circus in 10 years....

I'm not arguing he isn't Top 10 though, so you're quoting @Houston911 who responded to me for no reason. Plus, I said multiple guys have stronger Top 5 cases than Kobe, and as usual you guys latch onto LeBron like he's the only guy, yall dudes a trip. Why dont yall nikkas go on these angry rants when Kareem, Bird, or whoever else is also mentioned as greater than Kobe?

Yall funny...

Show me something about his goat case cause I just don’t see it.

Here's this:

•higher postseason peaks than anybody in history, and roughly equivalent---not behind---with Jordan's postseason peaks (as measured series' by series', by WS48, WS, PER, GmSc, any statistical evaluation or the actual eye test---->there certainly hasn't been a more consistently higher playoff performer since Jordan's '98 retirement, and when you're lining up LeBron's peak performances with anybody in history from '98 on backwards, he and Mike stand out way ahead of the field consistently)....he's right there with Mike as far as peak is measured and you can argue his very best is higher, key word it can be *argued*...

•one of the most dominant regular season players in history, again objectively measured by statistical evaluation or the eye test compared to people we've seen. Amongst GOAT candidates the only players in this sector of conversation with LeBron would be Mike, Kareem, and Wilt. You could stretch and add Larry and Shaq but they didn't hold that longevity of otherworld dominance as long as the other guys...

•greatest floor raiser in NBA history, not a single player in NBA history has done more with less so consistently...

•arguably the greatest all around player ever, I mean how many guys are truly deserving to be mentioned in the convo with him? There have been plenty of good-to-great all around players, very, very few did these things as well as LeBron. Scoring might at best be his third greatest skill and he somehow made himself one of the greatest scorers ever...

•not a single superstar player I've ever seen with comparable offensive responsibilities and/or talent, was as destructive defensively at their peak. His ability at peak to man anybody on the floor, particularly in crunch time, is rare shyt; even rarer is his ability to completely dominate a game and alter the opponent's offensive gameplan----->how many SUPERSTAR, GOAT-level guys have had that ability? Its unique as hell...

•greatest prep-to-pro player in NBA history; longevity as an elite player at this point is only rivaled by Kareem and Kobe; had roughly a decade-long run as the best player in The League, rivaled by only Kareem and Mike; 4th-most decorated (awards/accolades) player in league history, after Mike, Bill, Kareem, and all of these guys were of different eras besides the 5-year overlap late in Cap's/early in Mike's career, so it can be said in context that 60 years of NBA history was dominated by four guys way above anyone else, as Kareem was drafted right after Bill's retirement; Mike only overlapped 5 of Kareem's 20 seasons, and LeBron was drafted right after Mike's last retirement...

I can keep going but I'll stop there. I've said this many times and I'll reiterate here: while LeBron is the greatest basketball player I've ever seen, I'm not positive he's the greatest ever---->but all these baseless claims that he doesn't have an argument for it are ridiculous. Any objective evaluation of him makes it clear he doesn't just have an argument, he has one of the strongest any player has...

To your other points:

•"monopolize the ball"--Kobe's four highest Usg rate years are all higher than LeBron's highest, and his career Usg is a tick higher than Bron's. LeBron's play style is unique and makes cats think he's dominating the ball more than he actually is, when many players dominate it more...

•you've minimized LeBron's playoff dominance to just Finals losses, despite the fact he was the best player on the floor in two of his losses, and in another two he played well enough for his team to win, and in his first Finals he wasn't great but a youthful LeBron lost nailbiters to a veteran Spurs team, that series is probably the closest Finals sweep ever; so if that team had anyone else that could perform that series could swing the other way...

 

[Field Marshall Bradley]

and as usual you guys latch onto LeBron l

Where did Lebron's name even come up in my post.....? I'll wait....

 

[BXKingPin82]

He doesn't even know who's in his top 10. When they asked him he was like uhhhhhhhhh, then he started naming off names.

Archibald better than Kobe?

 

[fifth column]

So if "achieving less" means rings, this is a dumb way to look at achievement, but only 6 GOAT candidates have more rings so it would still make him Top 10, devaluing Jet's statement...

Fortunately we know being a GOAT is more than ring count, otherwise, I know a guy who has more titles than anybody and no one is even close to his ring count, so the GOAT debate is open and shut if that's all it's about...



I'm not arguing he isn't Top 10 though, so you're quoting @Houston911 who responded to me for no reason. Plus, I said multiple guys have stronger Top 5 cases than Kobe, and as usual you guys latch onto LeBron like he's the only guy, yall dudes a trip. Why dont yall nikkas go on these angry rants when Kareem, Bird, or whoever else is also mentioned as greater than Kobe?

Yall funny...



Here's this:



To your other points:

•"monopolize the ball"--Kobe's four highest Usg rate years are all higher than LeBron's highest, and his career Usg is a tick higher than Bron's. LeBron's play style is unique and makes cats think he's dominating the ball more than he actually is, when many players dominate it more...

•you've minimized LeBron's playoff dominance to just Finals losses, despite the fact he was the best player on the floor in two of his losses, and in another two he played well enough for his team to win, and in his first Finals he wasn't great but a youthful LeBron lost nailbiters to a veteran Spurs team, that series is probably the closest Finals sweep ever; so if that team had anyone else that could perform that series could swing the other way...

Remember you said Bron could objectively be argued as goat and this is obviously not the case. I didn’t minimize Lebron’s playoff dominance, I just dont see this 6-9 160lbs unstoppable force that y’all see. No matter what stats or “what if’s” gets thrown out in these convos. Bron is top 5 ever for sure but that goat ship has sailed.

 

[Houston911]

So if "achieving less" means rings, this is a dumb way to look at achievement, but only 6 GOAT candidates have more rings so it would still make him Top 10, devaluing Jet's statement...

Fortunately we know being a GOAT is more than ring count, otherwise, I know a guy who has more titles than anybody and no one is even close to his ring count, so the GOAT debate is open and shut if that's all it's about...



I'm not arguing he isn't Top 10 though, so you're quoting @Houston911 who responded to me for no reason. Plus, I said multiple guys have stronger Top 5 cases than Kobe, and as usual you guys latch onto LeBron like he's the only guy, yall dudes a trip. Why dont yall nikkas go on these angry rants when Kareem, Bird, or whoever else is also mentioned as greater than Kobe?

Yall funny...



Here's this:



To your other points:

•"monopolize the ball"--Kobe's four highest Usg rate years are all higher than LeBron's highest, and his career Usg is a tick higher than Bron's. LeBron's play style is unique and makes cats think he's dominating the ball more than he actually is, when many players dominate it more...

•you've minimized LeBron's playoff dominance to just Finals losses, despite the fact he was the best player on the floor in two of his losses, and in another two he played well enough for his team to win, and in his first Finals he wasn't great but a youthful LeBron lost nailbiters to a veteran Spurs team, that series is probably the closest Finals sweep ever; so if that team had anyone else that could perform that series could swing the other way...

I didn't respond to you for no reason

You made a post that sounded like you get your information from stats instead of film so I corrected you

You specifically mentioned LeBron and kareem, I responded to LeBron since I've seen his entire career

Bron is in my top 10 fyi

 

[Copy Ninja]

Kobe a top ten guard And that’s it.If that tbh.

People dapped this post

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

In no particular order
Bird
Magic
Jordan
Wilt
Russell
Shaq
Hakeem
LeBron
Wade
Drexler
Worthy
Kareem
Zeke
Dr. J
George Gervin
Karl Malone
Stockton
Gary Payton
Moses Malone
Big O
Jerry West
Pippen
Bernard King
Baylor
Tim Duncan
David Robinson
Paul pierce
Kg
Dirk

Breh you can do a better troll job than this

 

[ade]

If you rank by position alone Kobe has to be in your top 10 based off that. He’s the consensus #2 SG of all time so you would be ranking him against guys like Bird,Shaq,Wilt,Hakeem,Russell, Isiah. But there is no way he can’t not be in the top 10. His positional ranking demands that he is.

 

[David_TheMan]

Breh you can do a better troll job than this

Not a troll job, i dont rate kobe like some of you.

I put AI and Kobe in the same teir maybe top or mid 30s.

Definitely top 50 players, which isnt a slight

 

[David_TheMan]

If you rank by position alone Kobe has to be in your top 10 based off that. He’s the consensus #2 SG of all time so you would be ranking him against guys like Bird,Shaq,Wilt,Hakeem,Russell, Isiah. But there is no way he can’t not be in the top 10. His positional ranking demands that he is.

Your xontention is false, on top of that saying he has to be top 10 because he is a 2 means nothing if you weight other players greater.

Say for instance if you weigh centers heavily, you might have a top 10 with 4 centers which squeezes other positions down.

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

That same season LeBron averaged 31/7/7 to Kobe’s 35/5/5 and took a 64 win Pistons team to 7 games in the ECSF

Cavs won 50 games too split the season series against Kobe 1-1

Had better ‘lytics and finished higher in the MVP voting

Not arguing who was MVP that season, but Lebron played in a weaker eastern conference had that cavs team played out West they would ironically got knocked out the same way the Lakers did. You bring up Detroit.

Kobe has a worse team(and I’ve posted stats on those cavs vs lakers teams that season and playoffs in other threads, I dare you to say otherwise so I can flood this thread) and had to see the suns, had they won that series, they would of faces the clippers than Mavericks would have chased them out the gym like the same Spurs that raped Lebron and those cavs the following year

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

Not a troll job, i dont rate kobe like some of you.

I put AI and Kobe in the same teir maybe top or mid 30s.

Definitely top 50 players, which isnt a slight

Explanation for the bolded please

 

[David_TheMan]

Explanation for the bolded please

AI was an inefficient shot jacker, he didnt elevate the play of his teammates, wasnt a great facilitator, and played poor man and team defense in aearch of playing passing lanes.

Kobe is a inefficient shot jacker as well, he played good man defense, but he was obsessed with fetting his own to the extent he hurt his team. He was also a team cancer who never elevated the play of his teammates and more often than not made the temas he was on toxic environments that led to team disunity. He became a parody of what he was earlier later on in his career. One of the most selfish players ive ever seen in my life.

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

AI was an inefficient shot jacker, he didnt elevate the play of his teammates, wasnt a great facilitator, and played poor man and team defense in aearch of playing passing lanes.

Kobe is a inefficient shot jacker as well, he played good man defense, but he was obsessed with fetting his own to the extent he hurt his team. He was also a team cancer who never elevated the play of his teammates and more often than not made the temas he was on toxic environments that led to team disunity. He became a parody of what he was earlier later on in his career. One of the most selfish players ive ever seen in my life.

So let me get this straight


Forget achievements
Forget longevity
Forget that hes either tied Lebron or behind by 1 or 2 for leading the playoffs in scoring
Forget all that right. Elevating “teammates”? When he didn’t?? You mean when he played along Shaq??? Cause fisher and others had different say

you mean “uplifting” those trash Lakers Squads in the mid 2000s??? He’s the reason them nikkas even sniffed the playoffs in a stacked west.


Created toxic environments?? Cause MJ wasn’t punching nikkas and had nikkas shook up in those Bulls lockerroomsgive me a fukking break.

 

[David_TheMan]

So let me get this straight


Forget achievements
Forget longevity
Forget that hes either tied Lebron or behind by 1 or 2 for leading the playoffs in scoring
Forget all that right. Elevating “teammates”? When he didn’t?? You mean when he played along Shaq??? Cause fisher and others had different say

you mean “uplifting” those trash Lakers Squads in the mid 2000s??? He’s the reason them nikkas even sniffed the playoffs in a stacked west.


Created toxic environments?? Cause MJ wasn’t punching nikkas and had nikkas shook up in those Bulls lockerroomsgive me a fukking break.

Everyone i listed has achievements.

When you play in an era if longer playoff series playoff pts, dont care weight historically. Its an empty stat.

Longivity in and of itaelf means nothing. Ask Kevin Willis.

When Kobe was robin to Shaqs Batman the team went where shaq took it. Also kobe and his selfishness caused the loss to the pistons and shaq leaving

Kobe did notbing when he didnt have other superstars, period. Wilt took his team of scrubs against the celtics every year, big o disnt have a relliable number 2 but took his swuad against the kinga of the west, the lakers all the time, dr j competed against the celtics, bird took a team that was aged and old to the finals his first year, magic did the same, jordan took a team that was notbing into the playoffs

Kobe with his team was getting put out the first round and had him calling stephen a and begging to be traded. Thats Kobe Bryant the player.

Dwade comes to miami takes a young squad to the 2nd round, elevates the franchise. KD makes the thuder a playoff threat and leads them to the finals and makes them a cintender. Hell Harden comes to a lifeless Roxkets and makes them championship xontenders. Lebron drafted in the cavs and makes them championship contenders. Kobe by himself never did that.

D. Rob, Hakeem, TD, they made their teams better and contenders with thwir play and pressence.

Kobe never did that, hell AI did that as well.