John Hopkins: 2700+ died in the last 24 Hours In The U.S.

[UpThruDere]

According to the John Hopkins tracker there's 45,638 deaths in the U.S. thus far, so that means 45,638 autopsies have been performed so far to know exactly what these people died of right?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

“The mark of an educated mind is to entertain an idea without accepting it” Aristotle

you’re literally looking at one source of info and making up your mind. That’s dumb as shyt, if 7 artists all draw a different piece of an elephant, you won’t know what you’re looking at until you put all the drawings together. Your arrogance that you somehow know better than others when all you’re doing is parroting the official narrative. It might surprise you but I actually have a TV and internet in my home so I’ve already heard your argument because it’s not even yours

Where do you get this bullshyt that I'm only looking at one source of info? I'm posted references to at least half-a-dozen different sources in the last 24 hours alone. I don't just read hundreds of media sources, I read the actual scientific studies they're based on and even talk to two epidemiologists and a major public health expert personally, in addition to my sis being a medical professional in one of the hot spots. You're just making up stuff about me.

And the fact that I didn't just make up this shyt myself is a good sign.

I caught you using last year's projection of 2020 death rates and claiming it was this year's data, even though there was a giant banner across the top saying that there were no 2020 numbers and no COVID deaths in their dataset. I simply don't trust your ability to gather information.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Then, as to a clue how the numbers have been cooked by the states' Department of Health, check:

So a right-wing blog posted a video of a right-wing reporter interviewing a Republican politician, and the first thing he said about the CDC's statement was, "I felt like they were telling me..."

He couldn't tell us what they actually said? He only told us what he "felt like" they were saying?

It sounds like every doctor in the country got those guidelines. Why not post the guidelines themselves? They should be all over the country. Unless a Republican politician was trying to make it sounds far scarier and devious than it actually was.

Are there COVID-19 deaths from people who never got tested. Of COURSE there are. There were all sorts of localities that didn't have enough tests to go around, so plenty of people were never tested. I can't think of a single disease where it was required that you had to test the person of that disease with a DNA test before you could diagnose their death.

I'd love to know what y'all think doctors did before there were DNA tests or when DNA tests aren't available. You do realize that doctors have been diagnosing cases based on symptoms for decades, right? Don't talk like this is some new thing.

About a reliable estimate of the death rate, check this:

I don't have hours of my life to devote to a video that might be completely irrelevant. Either give me a timestamp or, better yet, show me the information in written form. There ain't no scientific info in the world that is limited to video.

 

[Geek Nasty]

United States system is a failure

Expect free market health care to save you when there's no profit involved

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Numbers aren't entirely unprecedented in Europe. Check the numbers for excess mortality in early 2017 compared to the last few weeks of this year. Also, there are indications that the lockdown measures themselves may be contributing to extra deaths so even excess mortality isn't an entirely reliable indicator for the impact of corona/COVID-19.

You're the second person today to send me that link with that same info, I'm interested where you got it if you can share.

But you're looking at the wrong info. Why would you look at the numbers across all Europe when not all of Europe is having an unprecedented pandemic right now? Why aren't you looking at the specific countries? You should be using this link and scrolling down to the country-specific numbers:

EURO MOMO

You can see there that the TOTAL death rates for Belgium, France, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK all hit new peaks unlike anything in recent history, and with an unprecedented speed as well. Again, those are TOTAL death rates, shyt you can't just cook like that.

Also, there are indications that the lockdown measures themselves may be contributing to extra deaths so even excess mortality isn't an entirely reliable indicator for the impact of corona/COVID-19.

This is the best part because the truth is the exact opposite.

Look at those charts in that link again. Look at all those countries I pointed out with the big death peaks. What do you notice about each one? Notice how even though COVID is still ravenging through them, after their initial peaks, when the countries went on lockdown their death numbers DROPPED. If lockdown caused excess mortality, then the death rates should have gone UP after the lockdown, not down. How do you explain that?

Even better, look at the countries that called for a lockdown even though their coronavirus death rates weren't high. Look at Germany, Ireland, Hungary, Finland. What do you notice about all of them? Their death rates have fallen well BELOW average, indicating that without a virus to kill a bunch of people, lockdowns clearly SAVE lives.

And basic logic tells you that's true. If people are practicing lockdowns and social distancing, then not just COVID but other diseases are gonna stop spreading too. Car accidents in Cali have dropped by half, I'm sure the same is true everywhere. Fewer interactions with other people means fewer opportunities for violent death. And probably most of all, so many people not going into work has significantly reduced peak stress, so stress-triggered illnesses (including strokes and heart attacks) are going to be down. There's a reason Mondays are the worst days for heart attacks.

The data is right in front of you. Countries with big corona outbreaks had a big peak in their death rates that was only brought down after lockdown. Countries without big corona outbreaks had their death rates fall below normal due to lockdown. You gotta go where the data leads.

What do you notice about the countries that went on lockdown before they had had huge numbers of COVID-19 deaths?

 

[Genos]

Sure, wish for the continued spread of a highly infectious disease that has taken a disproportionate toll on Black Americans because someone doesn't agree with you on the internet, makes sense. The less people who get infected means the less chance your greasy grandmother would get the disease and possibly succumb to it. If you are going to pretend to care about the human cost of the pandemic at the very least use Cancer as the ailment of choice in your petty wishes of death.

Breh, the only way these nikkas are going to learn is by getting it. And all of my grandparents are dead. So I hope your whore ass grandma gets it

 

[FabTrey]

you got me, you are smarter at watching the news than I am, by all means hide under a coffee table in your apartment and wait for the government to make it all better

nikka i have folks in michigan, georgia, and south carolina who are vulnerable. so STFU. i know if i catch Rona i'll beat it. i'm healthy as fuk and a grown ass responsible nikka. i ain't scared of it. far from it. but i know alot of people who will suffer if they catch it. most of them are over 65 years old. i know i could be an asymptomatic and spreading the virus to those people i love who has some serious underlying conditions. half of my fam got a high blood pressure, diabetes, and so on. and most of them are overweight. my uncles average weight is prolly 285.

so STFU and go kill yourself if you aren't going to take precaution and be mindful of others.

 

[pickles]

According to the John Hopkins tracker there's 45,638 deaths in the U.S. thus far, so that means 45,638 autopsies have been performed so far to know exactly what these people died of right?

Why would they do autopsies when they already know what caused the death?

 

[inndaskKy]

So a right-wing blog posted a video of a right-wing reporter interviewing a Republican politician, and the first thing he said about the CDC's statement was, "I felt like they were telling me..."

He couldn't tell us what they actually said? He only told us what he "felt like" they were saying?

It sounds like every doctor in the country got those guidelines. Why not post the guidelines themselves? They should be all over the country. Unless a Republican politician was trying to make it sounds far scarier and devious than it actually was.

Are there COVID-19 deaths from people who never got tested. Of COURSE there are. There were all sorts of localities that didn't have enough tests to go around, so plenty of people were never tested. I can't think of a single disease where it was required that you had to test the person of that disease with a DNA test before you could diagnose their death.

I'd love to know what y'all think doctors did before there were DNA tests or when DNA tests aren't available. You do realize that doctors have been diagnosing cases based on symptoms for decades, right? Don't talk like this is some new thing.




I don't have hours of my life to devote to a video that might be completely irrelevant. Either give me a timestamp or, better yet, show me the information in written form. There ain't no scientific info in the world that is limited to video.

I don't know why you even mention who posted the video breh, seems entirely irrelevant and I generally don't consider those labels useful for a debate like this at all. The video is pretty self-explanatory and there have many other reports in many countries even about governments cooking the numbers this way, stating very explicitly that the MO for assigning cause of death has been different during this crisis from what it usually is.


What the longer video is about is one of the most cited scientists in history who is an expert in the field of epidemiology and evidence-based medicine, explaining that the model that the governments based their policy on is bs and that his study is one of the first methodologically sound ones to be carried out and it suggests that the corona outbreak has a fatality rate indeed comparable to a regular flu outbreak. There is a ton of evidence now showing that the entire response to the outbreak has been completely overblown and was based on false information.

The tragedy is that people have interpreted this as a republicans vs democrats type of debate whereas it is really a matter of evidence and reasoning. People who think those who are against the lockdown are callous conservatives out to protect their financial interests by calling for the lockdown to end are completely missing the fact that there is evidence suggesting that the lockdown measures are actually costing and endangering lives. If you accuse people calling for the lockdown measures to end irresponsible monsters, you should really reconsider the scientific evidence and consider that you might end up on the wrong side of history where support for the lockdown actually will have resulted in thousands and thousands or even millions of unnecessary deaths. People need to stop taking positions because it's the opposite of what their political adversaries (Republicans, Trump, whoever) are saying. Just look at the evidence and use reason.

I don't think people really realize how flimsy the evidence FOR the drastic lockdown measures really was/is.

 

[inndaskKy]

You're the second person today to send me that link with that same info, I'm interested where you got it if you can share.

But you're looking at the wrong info. Why would you look at the numbers across all Europe when not all of Europe is having an unprecedented pandemic right now? Why aren't you looking at the specific countries? You should be using this link and scrolling down to the country-specific numbers:

EURO MOMO

You can see there that the TOTAL death rates for Belgium, France, Italy, Netherlands, Spain, Sweden, Switzerland, and the UK all hit new peaks unlike anything in recent history, and with an unprecedented speed as well. Again, those are TOTAL death rates, shyt you can't just cook like that.





This is the best part because the truth is the exact opposite.

Look at those charts in that link again. Look at all those countries I pointed out with the big death peaks. What do you notice about each one? Notice how even though COVID is still ravenging through them, after their initial peaks, when the countries went on lockdown their death numbers DROPPED. If lockdown caused excess mortality, then the death rates should have gone UP after the lockdown, not down. How do you explain that?

Even better, look at the countries that called for a lockdown even though their coronavirus death rates weren't high. Look at Germany, Ireland, Hungary, Finland. What do you notice about all of them? Their death rates have fallen well BELOW average, indicating that without a virus to kill a bunch of people, lockdowns clearly SAVE lives.

And basic logic tells you that's true. If people are practicing lockdowns and social distancing, then not just COVID but other diseases are gonna stop spreading too. Car accidents in Cali have dropped by half, I'm sure the same is true everywhere. Fewer interactions with other people means fewer opportunities for violent death. And probably most of all, so many people not going into work has significantly reduced peak stress, so stress-triggered illnesses (including strokes and heart attacks) are going to be down. There's a reason Mondays are the worst days for heart attacks.

The data is right in front of you. Countries with big corona outbreaks had a big peak in their death rates that was only brought down after lockdown. Countries without big corona outbreaks had their death rates fall below normal due to lockdown. You gotta go where the data leads.

What do you notice about the countries that went on lockdown before they had had huge numbers of COVID-19 deaths?

Won't have time the next few hours but I'll edit this post later on and address these points.

 

[Numpsay]

It amazes me that people actually believe the numbers would be rigged to be inflated instead of rigged to be kept low. There is no benefit to anyone to make the numbers as high as possible. Personally I think it's higher than that and we are likely missing 1-3k deaths from February.

 

[philmonroe]

I don't know why you even mention who posted the video breh, seems entirely irrelevant and I generally don't consider those labels useful for a debate like this at all. The video is pretty self-explanatory and there have many other reports in many countries even about governments cooking the numbers this way, stating very explicitly that the MO for assigning cause of death has been different during this crisis from what it usually is.


What the longer video is about is one of the most cited scientists in history who is an expert in the field of epidemiology and evidence-based medicine, explaining that the model that the governments based their policy on is bs and that his study is one of the first methodologically sound ones to be carried out and it suggests that the corona outbreak has a fatality rate indeed comparable to a regular flu outbreak. There is a ton of evidence now showing that the entire response to the outbreak has been completely overblown and was based on false information.

The tragedy is that people have interpreted this as a republicans vs democrats type of debate whereas it is really a matter of evidence and reasoning. People who think those who are against the lockdown are callous conservatives out to protect their financial interests by calling for the lockdown to end are completely missing the fact that there is evidence suggesting that the lockdown measures are actually costing and endangering lives. If you accuse people calling for the lockdown measures to end irresponsible monsters, you should really reconsider the scientific evidence and consider that you might end up on the wrong side of history where support for the lockdown actually will have resulted in thousands and thousands or even millions of unnecessary deaths. People need to stop taking positions because it's the opposite of what their political adversaries (Republicans, Trump, whoever) are saying. Just look at the evidence and use reason.

I don't think people really realize how flimsy the evidence FOR the drastic lockdown measures really was/is.

He mentioned who posted the video as a means of instant disqualification. That’s the lazy debate style many have ran with nowadays. You have to beat people with approved sources to their liking even if your sources have merit to them.

 

[UpThruDere]

Why would they do autopsies when they already know what caused the death?

Wouldn't they want an exact cause instead of just an assumption to help inflate their numbers

 

[pickles]

I don't know why you even mention who posted the video breh, seems entirely irrelevant and I generally don't consider those labels useful for a debate like this at all. The video is pretty self-explanatory and there have many other reports in many countries even about governments cooking the numbers this way, stating very explicitly that the MO for assigning cause of death has been different during this crisis from what it usually is.


What the longer video is about is one of the most cited scientists in history who is an expert in the field of epidemiology and evidence-based medicine, explaining that the model that the governments based their policy on is bs and that his study is one of the first methodologically sound ones to be carried out and it suggests that the corona outbreak has a fatality rate indeed comparable to a regular flu outbreak. There is a ton of evidence now showing that the entire response to the outbreak has been completely overblown and was based on false information.

The tragedy is that people have interpreted this as a republicans vs democrats type of debate whereas it is really a matter of evidence and reasoning. People who think those who are against the lockdown are callous conservatives out to protect their financial interests by calling for the lockdown to end are completely missing the fact that there is evidence suggesting that the lockdown measures are actually costing and endangering lives. If you accuse people calling for the lockdown measures to end irresponsible monsters, you should really reconsider the scientific evidence and consider that you might end up on the wrong side of history where support for the lockdown actually will have resulted in thousands and thousands or even millions of unnecessary deaths. People need to stop taking positions because it's the opposite of what their political adversaries (Republicans, Trump, whoever) are saying. Just look at the evidence and use reason.

I don't think people really realize how flimsy the evidence FOR the drastic lockdown measures really was/is.

Post the evidence.

 

[Action Mike]

If people in this thread wanna go outside so badly and work, go be a key worker