Jimmy Butler's Run to the 2023 NBA Finals Is OBJECTIVELY More Impressive Than Any Run LeBron Had EDIT: @Rhakim Exposal Thread

[Osmosis]

Also gonna ignore than Jimmy was traded twice and only left as a free agent once.

So demanding trades is more respectable than fulfilling your contract?

Nevermind the fact Jimmy wasnt switching teams to form superteams in a weak ass conference

If Bron pulled the shyt Jimmy pulled on the Wolves and ended up on the 76ers with multiple all-stars ya'll would act like he committed a crime against humanity

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Nevermind the fact Jimmy wasnt switching teams to form superteams in a weak ass conference

The way some of the Bron haters have been counting "superteams", Jimmy spent his entire career on them. Remember how they kept counting Ray Allen on the Heat, or D-Rose, IT, and washed Wade on Cleveland, or Dwight and Rondo on the Lakers? "LeBron has played with 16 All-Star teammates!!!!"


2012:

Butler: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive
Rose: All-Star, All-NBA, MVP
Deng: All-Star, All-Defensive
Noah: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive, DPOY
Boozer: All-Star, All-NBA
Rip: All-Star
Korver: All-Star


2015:

Butler: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive
Rose: All-Star, All-NBA, MVP,
Gasol: All-Star, All-NBA,
Noah: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive, DPOY


2018:

Butler: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive
KAT: All-Star, All-NBA
Wiggins: All-Star
Teague: All-Star
Rose: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive, MVP
Crawford: 6th Man of the Year


2019:

Butler: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive
Embiid: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive, MVP
Simmons: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive
Covington: All-Defensive


2020:

Butler: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive
Bam: All-Star, All-Defensive
Iggy: All-Star, All-Defensive, Finals MVP
Dragic: All-Star, All-NBA
Herro: 6th Man of the Year


2023:

Butler: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive
Bam: All-Star, All-Defensive
Lowry: All-Star, All-NBA
Love: All-Star, All-NBA
Oladipo: All-Star, All-NBA, All-Defensive
Herro: 6th Man of the Year



Butler has played on nothing but superteams his entire career.

 

[murksiderock]

We're revisiting the premise of this thread...

This round has shown why I told muhfukkas to pump the brakes on Jimmy. As much as he's ascended, he doesn't have those extra gears to level into when he's matched against a true superstar in his prime. He hasn't even been the best player on his team in this series (Bam), and has been thoroughly outplayed by both Jokic and Murray, so he's at best the 4th best player in this series...

And we can make the argument Gordon has been better (though I'd still lean Jimmy)...

Cats gassed a Rd1 56-point game, gassed those early round performances, and he's literally gotten worse each round:

Rd1: picked apart a smaller Jrue, and a scary Giannis, but Giannis also missed 1¾ games. He still putplayed Giannis when it mattered though, that matters...

37.6/6/4.8 on 597/444/708
30.4 GmSc

ECSF: the Knicks had no one to put on him. Hart was too small, Randle wasnt healthy the entire series. In fairness to Jimmy his ankle contributes to the decline in production---->but as I said with Giannis, and with many other stars of the past. If you aren't healthy enough to play, don't. When you go out between those lines you're healthy enough to play, especially when you can still average 24.5 points post injury...

24.6/7.2/6 on 432/111/868
22 GmSc

ECF: he repeatedly ate up Brown and Grant Williams, those guys arent strong enough to defend him. He also was ass for three games straight though...

24.7/7.6/6.1 on 420/348/838
20.9 GmSc

Finals: aint no smaller or inconsistent guy to pick on here. Gordon (6'10) is working Jimmy, and all of Braun (6'6), Porter (6'10), Brown (6'4) and Murray (6'4) have overall held up well against him. Denver's aggregate size is busting his ass, and once again his weaknesses come to the forefront, it's hard for him to manufacture impactful scoring because he's a foul baiter who has an inconsistent j and is not elite at pressuring the rim. More on this below...

21.8/5/6.8 on 465/333/800
20.7 GmSc

Let's be clear. Jimmy had an All-Time First Round series. This has not, by any stretch, been an All-Time playoff run...

 

[murksiderock]

Jimmy's gonna skate thru much criticism because generally The Culture recognizes that he's not on that top tier superstar level. He's ascended though, so he's not escaping critique from me. There's a legitimate argument that Jimmy is now one of the 75 greatest players ever, I'll make that argument myself---->and to whom much is given, much is expected...

He's 12 years in to his career, so expecting wholesale changes is probably not happening, and ultimately his game has a ceiling. He's able to click into another gear when the playoffs start, but this is two Finals trips, we've seen him get completely outclassed by the superstar(s) on the other side. This isn't about wins and losses, because plenty of teams lost The Finals while having the best player on the floor in the series---->you can start from West in '69 and keep going, there's plenty of examples of this...

So this isn't about losing The Finals. It's about an inability to cancel out the opp's superstar production, because you simply aren't able to produce at the same level as the opp's superstar...

End of the day at this stage you have to be able to make your presence felt in many ways, but certainly thru your scoring. These bigger, rangy, disciplined Nuggets defenders are giving him that work. Jimmy's a 6'7 wing, and he's strong, so he shouldn't look this discombobulated vs them, and it brings me to the oft-compared Kawhi, who is also 6'7 and strong and methodical with his scoring...

Bigger defenders don't bother Kawhi. There's a different skillset here, in that Kawhi can score on any defense because Kawhi has a reliable jumper. I'm not sure I'd call Kawhi elite at pressuring the rim either, but he is certainly more explosive at the rim when he gets there than Jimmy, and that's a different challenge for the defense than Jimmy presents...

I'm bringing up Kawhi to show the contrasts in a guy Jimmy's same measurables and why Jimmy is having more trouble with these Nuggets than Kawhi would. Also for as strong as Jimmy is, Kawhi is probably stronger...

I don't expect Jimmy at this age to develop this elite game attacking the basket. And while foul-baiting is mostly used as a pejorative, Jimmy adding this foul-drawing aspect to his game the last few years has helped fuel his ascent as a player. It's a skill, and he has to have it because he isn't gonna be a major threat at the rim...

But I do expect Jimmy to work on his shot. How much better it gets, who knows. But we see guys all the time get better shooting the ball with age. He's gotta get better shooting the ball from every zone...

Where Miami goes from here? Jimmy has twice shown he can be the best player on a Finals team. So did Clyde Drexler. Ultimately they seem to both have hit their ceilings in The Finals, and if the goal is winning trophies, you have to question your ceiling with Jimmy as your guy...

Like Clyde on the '95 Rockets, ideally Jimmy would be the PERFECT #2 on a championship team. I don't know how Miami could get a stronger #1. But you can reshape this roster with more size, and a stronger backcourt, but if Jimmy has his same limitations he has now, you don't have a championship ceiling...

I fukk with Jimmy. Like I said upthread, this playoff run would be equivalent to the 5th or 6th best LeBron run, at best. Gotta work on that j, Jimmy!

 

[SadimirPutin]

@murksiderock the dummies in this thread didnt even really believe the nonsense they were writing

The OP saw an opportunity to take a shot at Bron and came to this forum because this is a circlejerk of low though low content bron hate disguised poorly as basketball conversation

Bron has been COOKING in the playoffs for years win or lose and these fools have been here all along so its not like the video dont exist.

They are dap fishing weirdos who need the validation they get here

And they are gonna read this post and get TIGHT even thought THEY were the ones who originated this stupid premise and exposed their own ignorance for the 1 or 2 days of endorphins of dap fishing.

 

[murksiderock]

@murksiderock the dummies in this thread didnt even really believe the nonsense they were writing

The OP saw an opportunity to take a shot at Bron and came to this forum because this is a circlejerk of low though low content bron hate disguised poorly as basketball conversation

Bron has been COOKING in the playoffs for years win or lose and these fools have been here all along so its not like the video dont exist.

They are dap fishing weirdos who need the validation they get here

And they are gonna read this post and get TIGHT even thought THEY were the ones who originated this stupid premise and exposed their own ignorance for the 1 or 2 days of endorphins of dap fishing.

100%!

LeBron is the greatest player of all time, because he's the greatest postseason player ever. He's got far too many series and games that he spazzed out, his Takeover Mode is likely the highest level of ball ever reached, and he did this with a consistency, playing at an ultra-elite level, longer than anyone ever did. Everyone has bad games here and there, but when Bron wasn't shooting well he still generally controlled games with his defense and/or passing...

These dudes ran in this thread knowing all of this, to compare what Jimmy is doing, which isn't even a Top 5 Bron run. It's stupid...

We know who Jimmy is. He's transformed into a legitimate superstar, but one with debilitating limitations...

 

[MVike28]

Hang this in the rafters

Congratulations OP

 

[SadimirPutin]

If Jimmy Jordan gets this chip is he the second best Heat ever behind Wade?

We about to find out

 

[Don Homer]

Where is all the smoke and criticism of jimmy butler? Folks were saying this his current run was better than any of some all time greats runs to a ring and he has not showed up this NBA finals, he scored 13 points in game 1 in a game they could have easily won, and has not been consistent at all, you cant give guys all the plaudits when they win like vs the celtics and no smoke when they are about to get a gentleman sweep

@Don Homer

silly nikkas

i dont wanna hear about "gentlemans sweeps" or any of that shyt, cuz yall talk like lebron's run in 2018 was his crowning achievement and he got swept

and yall STILL havent acknowledged that he played tougher competition than bron did when he was in the east

 

[MVike28]

Plot twist @Don Homer exposal thread

 

[Don Homer]

Plot twist @Don Homer exposal thread

i stay right, but nikkas in their feelings

 

[SadimirPutin]

Cant even be mad....doubling down on stupidity is a time honored Coli tradition

 

[murksiderock]

silly nikkas

i dont wanna hear about "gentlemans sweeps" or any of that shyt, cuz yall talk like lebron's run in 2018 was his crowning achievement and he got swept

and yall STILL havent acknowledged that he played tougher competition than bron did when he was in the east

'18 isn't Bron's crowning achievement to me, sounds like you don't think it is either...

As far as competition, the '23 Bucks are better than the '18 Pacers; the '18 Raptors are better than the '23 Knicks; the '23 Celtics are probably better than the '18 Celtics but honestly this is marginal, this is clearly not a great C's team and the C's Jimmy beat in '20, + the C's Jimmy lost to in '22, were better than this '23 iteration of the Celtics...

The '18 Warriors were better than these '23 Nuggets...

The competition by round was even. The differentiator is that '18 Bron played at a significantly higher level than '23 Jimmy, and you and others have held this run up as if its Jimmy's crowning achievement. Just to be clear, GmSc by opponent '18 Bron vs '23 Butler:

'18 Bron Rd2 (30.7)
'23 Jimmy Rd1 (30.4)
'18 Bron Rd1 (30)
'18 Bron Finals (28.3)
'18 Bron ECF (25.1)
'23 Jimmy Rd2 (22)
'23 Jimmy ECF (20.9)
'23 Jimmy Finals (17.9)

Bron's postseason GmSc was 28.3 and his postseason PER was 32.2; vs '23 Jimmy’s postseason GmSc of 22.9 and postseason PER of 24.5. Given the competition was essentially even between the two, the only explanation for such a dramatic gap between the two in production, are that '18 Bron was a substantially greater player than '18 Jimmy...

Personally, I don't think anyone needs stats to illustrate this. If you saw the games both postseasons your eyes told you this...

 

[BlueHeffner]

100%!

LeBron is the greatest player of all time, because he's the greatest postseason player ever. He's got far too many series and games that he spazzed out, his Takeover Mode is likely the highest level of ball ever reached, and he did this with a consistency, playing at an ultra-elite level, longer than anyone ever did. Everyone has bad games here and there, but when Bron wasn't shooting well he still generally controlled games with his defense and/or passing...

These dudes ran in this thread knowing all of this, to compare what Jimmy is doing, which isn't even a Top 5 Bron run. It's stupid...

We know who Jimmy is. He's transformed into a legitimate superstar, but one with debilitating limitations...

 

[murksiderock]

I think we've already established '11 was his low point 50-leven times, right? The way he came back from that low point is unequaled, and even before that low point he had two runs ('07 and '09) on some All-Time shyt and numerous great series and games...

He's the greatest postseason player that ever played this game. That's why he's the greatest player ever. The only competition he has in either category is Mike, there is literally no other player whose playoff work is even debatable with LeBron's other than Mike's...