Jimmy Butler's Run to the 2023 NBA Finals Is OBJECTIVELY More Impressive Than Any Run LeBron Had EDIT: @Rhakim Exposal Thread

[CHICAGO]

This is the second time you've repeated this lie. There's been at most 3 Jimmy threads before this the entire postseason where I've said anything even remotely negative, and in most of those it was maybe one comment.

DID YOU NOT SEE THE "S"
AS IN PLURAL?

YOU THINK YOU THE ONLY
LeGTB nikka ON THE BOARD?


​

 

[KidJSoul]

They don't want to talk about that. Jimmy Butler winning this year ADDS to LeBron's legacy. LeBron been cooking Jimmy in the playoffs forever. LeBron was cooking a PRIME 30 year old Jimmy Butler in the finals. LeBron is 3-0 vs. Jimmy in the playoffs so if one of his rivals goes off, it adds to LeBron's legacy.

Say less

You remember the 2020 Finals?

That nikka Jimmy ran outta gas he had NOTHING left in Game 6 meanwhile Bron was in overdrive cookin him

He treated Jimmy in Chicago like a Crash Test Dummy kickin his ass up and down the court when he was with the Heat and the Cavs

Ignore AD brehs

NOW nikkaS BRAGGING
ON BEATING JIMMY WITH AD.

IF THE ROLES WERE REVERSED
WE'LL NEVER HEAR THE END
OF IT.


​

I don't recall Jimmy butler playing with 2020 Anthony davis who lead the team in scoring AND was the best defender in the playoffs...

Right, fukking obtuse to ignore prime Anthony Davis

And dragic and bam getting hurt

Yet Jimmy still pushed LeBron to 6 games and outclutched him twice

But give Bron credit for losing in 6 to the Warriors because that's apparently different than this?

 

[Roger king]

Just to answer the thread question first, no this isn't more impressive than any LeBron run. As it stands a Y12/Age 33 Jimmy isn't more impressive than what Bron did in Y4/Age 22, the '23 Heat are clearly a better basketball team than the '07 Cavs...

It's not yet better than '13 Bron and I'm not sure the title would make it over '13 Bron when you combine regular + postseason...

It's not gonna eclipse '16 Bron but a title could stand with it. These Nuggets aren't better than the '16 Warriors so even though the '16 Cavs are better than the '23 Heat, the Cavs beat a tougher opponent...

This is not a stronger run than '18 Bron who was going off in every single round with a worse team than this Heat squad...

This Jimmy run currently stands about equal to whatever you'd consider Bron's 5th-strongest run. A title couldn't make this a more impressive run than any LeBron run but sure, you could argue it's as impressive as Bron's best...

But I have to note, here's another thread by an Anti-Bron yet again holding another great player to Bron's level of achievement. The guys who shyt on Bron always reveal that Bron is still the standard, he's still the bar yall want other guys to reach. You could have made this thread asking where this Jimmy run should rank period All-Time built you specified LeBron because, as always, LeBron is the standard all the guys of the last 20 years ago get held to, not the other way around...

You guys validate the greatness of your favorite players based off how close yall think these dudes are to Bron. Never change, Coliseum

Very succinct and intelligible, there is no way this run comes close to what bron carrying that cavs team to the finals vs spurs and in clev without kyrie to the finals vs golden state. The anti lebron clowns dont care about facts or logic, you cant argue on good faith its all about smearing bron facts regardless, this is the same forum that still claims bron isnt even top 5 when no objective measure can be use to argue that. They just want their daps and reps by criticizing lebron, thats it

 

[The Connoisseurs]

I Couldn’t come up with an actual counter point or a funny gif so Inserted an emo gif

 

[Joe Sixpack]

Ignore AD brehs



Right, fukking obtuse to ignore prime Anthony Davis

And dragic and bam getting hurt

Yet Jimmy still pushed LeBron to 6 games and outclutched him twice

But give Bron credit for losing in 6 to the Warriors because that's apparently different than this?

You can’t put Jimmy in this elite status but make excuses for him when he loses thats what ya’ll do to LeBron all the time..

OP says Jimmy’s run right now is better than any LeBron run so we holdin him to that standard

 

[Professor Emeritus]

He pretty much ranks top 2 or top 4 for all the playoffs in PER, WS, and WS per 48.

Win shares is based on how many wins you have, when only 2 teams have 12 wins of course he's going to be near the top in that stat.

But he's just 4th in win shares/48 and 6th in BPM. Even in VORP he was 5th until playing more games than the other guys pushed him into a 4-way tie for 2nd. Wanting to make this about advanced stats is odd. How does that make it an all-time run when he's not even clearly top this year?

There are a ton of other runs where players were DOMINANT above the competition in those stats their year.

Caleb also got himself some big time iso buckets, and I won't take away from his moment because I'm happy for him and he deserves the love.... but that team runs through Jimmy, and works because of Jimmy. His shooting % drop can be attributed to how much he's expected to do on both ends, while injured (and without complaint).

I already said that Jimmy definitely should have been the ECF MVP. But the fact that the voting was even close does question whether it's the GOAT run. If it was, it wouldn't be close.

And you can't attribute everyone's play to Jimmy. In 12 out of 17 games this postseason, the Heat have outscored their opponent when Jimmy was on the bench. In 201 minutes without Butler on the court, Miami has a 126.2 offensive rating while holding their opponents to 110.1 offensive rating. They've been playing elite whether he was on the court or not.

The other nonsensical (and prototypical coli) talking point in this thread: "Jimmy almost had the biggest collapse in NBA history" which ranks even higher than "KD was gonna win the chip if he had a smaller foot" trope.

I never said a word about that, so don't know why you including it in your reply to me.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

DID YOU NOT SEE THE "S"
AS IN PLURAL?

YOU THINK YOU THE ONLY
LeGTB nikka ON THE BOARD?


​

You replied to me alone both times and said "You" both times, but you were actually talking about those other guys, you didn't mean me.

Goddamn breh you gotta be the worst mod in Coli history at this point.

 

[murksiderock]

Ask yourself this…

18 Raptors
18 Pacers
18 Celtics
23 Bucks
23 Celtics
23 Knicks

Which one of those teams were discussed as being Championship contenders?

To be fair in 2018 both the Raptors and Celtics were considered contenders, just like in 2023 the Bucks and Celtics were. Moot point...

2010-2020
4 rings
9 finals appearances

If nobody won more rings than him in his most dominant stretch…I’d argue that was his era.

You can define "Bron's era" in various ways and still no one has more championships, championships as a #1, Finals appearances, MVPs, or Top 5 MVP finishes...

This is to say nothing of All-NBA berths, 1st Team All-NBAs, All-Star selections, conference championships, or conference finals appearances because oh yeah, he's #1 in all those metrics too...

And in most cases it's not even a close 2nd place guy...

But Bron doesn't have an era a guy is #1 in all the factors of importance and dominance, but he doesn't have an era...

If you wanted to be as restrictive as possible, I've seen guys say "only the Miami years was his era". That's 4 years, 2010-14, he's #1 in everything important...

He won 3 titles in 5 years from 2011-16 on some dynasty shyt, #1 in everything...

He was in The Finals 8 straight years, 2011-18, #1 in everything...

Won 4 titles in 9 years on some dynasty shyt, 2011-20, #1 in everything important...

A dozen year stretch run from 2008-20, 4 MVPs, 4 rings, 9 Finals, 10 conference finals, #1 in everything important...

Extend that two years and you include 10 Finals runs in a 14-year stretch 2006-20, he's still #1 in everything ...

Or you could use his entire career of 2003-23 and shyt, he's STILL #1 in everything...

LeBron isn't second place in any metric of relevance for any window of time of his career....unless dudes choose to box in "his era" as the periods of time before he started going to Finals or winning MVPs, or after he stopped going to Finals and winning titles

But if the question is specifically "what was the era of time Bron dominated'' that question can be answered so many different ways and each answer to that question is LeBron is #1 in EVERY SINGLE METRIC OF RELEVANCE...

Dudes on here swear he ain't the GOAT but keep fam in their threads all day. This board might literally go extinct when Bron retires

 

[Trojan 24]

A 7 years older Love, after battling years of injuries and taking Prozac is the same player

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Lmao. Look either way you spin it jimmy getting to the finals with these squads is more impressive. Jimmy isn't playing with a wade or kyrie and the teams he's played are much better competition.

You just destroyed your own point.


Bron's supporting cast was FAR worse in the 2007 and 2018 runs than Jimmy's is here. You keep changing how you evaluate the run depending on which run you want to compare it to. If your standard is "who did the most with the least help", then Bron's 2007, 2015, and 2018 Finals runs had far less help.

the teams he's played are much better competition.

2018 Bron:

59-win 1 seed
55-win 2 seed
48-win 5 seed


2023 Butler:

58-win 1 seed
57-win 2 seed
47-win 5 seed


Same fukking seeds, same fukking win totals. Obviously Milwaukee should have been better than their record, but Giannis only played 2.5 games that series and was hurt for most of them, while Middleton/Jrue barely played more than 1 good game each. The Knicks weren't shyt, and the Celtics looked mediocre all postseason and ended up playing like dogshyt in 4 out of 7 games in the ECF, so how are they any better than the 2018 version that won just as many regular season games, was actually well-coached, and didn't shyt the bed in the ECF?

Even if you say that Jimmy's 2023 comp is moderately better than Bron's 2018 comp (and there's a case for that), Bron's supporting cast was FAR worse and Bron objectively had to do FAR more to get wins.

Really strange to me how someone can argue that doing less is more impressive. And there's no serious argument that Jimmy didn't have to do less to get here.

 

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

The other nonsensical (and prototypical coli) talking point in this thread: "Jimmy almost had the biggest collapse in NBA history" which ranks even higher than "KD was gonna win the chip if he had a smaller foot" trope. That's just a weird way of saying "in a 7 game series, the Heat won 4 games." Winning the conference finals doesn't come with some sort of asterisk because "the other team made it closer than people thought." Also, the Heat at no time almost lost the series. They came out in Game 7 and blew the hinges off the door, on the home court of a legit season-long title contender. The game was never in danger.

The whole 'Jimmy almost had the biggest collapse in NBA history' is more to the point of highlighting how inconsistent he was, rather than overemphasizing that they nearly let a 3-0 lead slip. If they alternated wins and Butler still had the exact same performances, the same principles behind the argument would ring true.

Overall, he didn't play particularly well against the Celtics; he was looking dead in the water there for nearly half the series, unable to get anything going on offense because Boston cut off his water after they wouldn't bite on his pumpfakes. Because of the fact he had a run of bad performances when they were up 3-0 and it was Caleb Martin who basically resuscitated them, it doesn't look too good on his 2023 playoff resume.

It would be a different thing entirely if he was great throughout the entirety of the ECF and his teammates weren't doing their job (whilst losing three straight), but it was almost to the contrary, so the storyline around their near-collapse is more pronounced given his subpar play was at the center of it.

 

[Devil Plisken…CMS]

To be fair in 2018 both the Raptors and Celtics were considered contenders, just like in 2023 the Bucks and Celtics were. Moot point...

All the deleting I had to just to quote some made up shyt. I’m angry!

 

[Professor Emeritus]

A 7 years older Love, after battling years of injuries and taking Prozac is the same player

He was already battled injuries and depressed in 2018, so what's the difference?


Kevin Love's per-36 numbers from 2015 to 2022:

2015: 26yo Love 18-10-2 shooting 43/37 (19-9-3 shooting 42/43 in the playoffs)
2016: 27yo Love 18-11-3 shooting 42/36 (17-10-3 shooting 39/41 in the playoffs)
2017: 28yo Love 22-13-2 shooting 43/37 (19-12-2 shooting 44/45 in the playoffs)
2018: 29yo Love 23-12-2 shooting 46/41 (17-12-2 shooting 39/34 in the playoffs)
2019: 30yo Love 23-13-3 shooting 39/36
2020: 31yo Love 20-11-4 shooting 45/37
2021: 32yo Love 18-11-4 shooting 41/37
2022: 33yo Love 22-12-4 shooting 43/39


Where's the career dropoff? He's been the same fukking player the entire time, the only difference is how many touches he gets in a given year and how much pressure he feels when the playoffs roll in. His #'s last year were BETTER than most of his seasons with Bron, only because his M.O. is shytting the bed any time there's the slightest pressure.

Y'all have to manufacture this imaginary Love dropoff in order to feed your narrative that Bron has some sort of amazing HOF sidekick in 2018, rather than just accept that Love has always been dogshyt at everything other than accumulating rebounds and making open threes. Same guy Bron had as his #2 in 2018 wouldn't have a prayer of being considered a top-6 player on Jimmy's squad.

 

[Dwight Howard]

You just destroyed your own point.


Bron's supporting cast was FAR worse in the 2007 and 2018 runs than Jimmy's is here. You keep changing how you evaluate the run depending on which run you want to compare it to. If your standard is "who did the most with the least help", then Bron's 2007, 2015, and 2018 Finals runs had far less help.





2018 Bron:

59-win 1 seed
55-win 2 seed
48-win 5 seed


2023 Butler:
58-win 1 seed
57-win 2 seed
47-win 5 seed


Same fukking seeds, same fukking win totals. Obviously Milwaukee should have been better than their record, but Giannis only played 2.5 games that series and was hurt for most of them, while Middleton/Jrue barely played more than 1 good game each. The Knicks weren't shyt, and the Celtics looked mediocre all postseason and ended up playing like dogshyt in 4 out of 7 games in the ECF, so how are they any better than the 2018 version that won just as many regular season games, was actually well-coached, and didn't shyt the bed in the ECF?

Even if you say that Jimmy's 2023 comp is moderately better than Bron's 2018 comp (and there's a case for that), Bron's supporting cast was FAR worse and Bron objectively had to do FAR more to get wins.

Really strange to me how someone can argue that doing less is more impressive. And there's no serious argument that Jimmy didn't have to do less to get here.

The 2018 celtics lost contender status after kyrie got hurt, he was the reason they were considered contenders

 

[Ozymandeas]

Which nba reddit u talkin bout? R/nba or r/nbadiscussions? R/nba is worse than here and on top of that they be on hella gay cac humor shyt over there

Of course he loves r/nba.

Over there, they LOVE LeBron, despise Kobe with the hatred of a thousand suns , think KD destroyed basketball, think Jordan is mid and think Bird played the right way.