Jim Jackson picks Kobe over Lebron

[Professor Emeritus]

Duncan won 5 titles too, so he does have an argument since most people consider him to be the greatest PF of all time and he has 2 MVPs . The one thing I will give Kobe is that I think he had a higher peak that Duncan did, but I also think Duncan was more efficient and a bit more consistent

I don't get this - makes me wonder if people actually remember Duncan's peak or not. Duncan's peak from 2001-2004 was epic:

2001: 22-12-3 with 2 blocks/game, 24-15-4 with 3 blocks/game in the playoffs, 2nd in MVP vote

2002: 26-13-4 with 2.5 blocks/game, 28-14-5 with 4 blocks/game in the playoffs, Won MVP

2003: 23-13-4 with 3 blocks/game, beat down Shaq's Lakers in the playoffs, 25-15-5 with 3 blocks/game in the playoffs, Won MVP, 25-17-5 and 5 blocks/game in the finals for Finals MVP

2004: 22-12-3 with 3 blocks/game, 22-11-3 with 2 blocks/game in the playoffs, 2nd in MVP vote


In four years he had two MVPs, two 2nd-place in MVPs and a Finals MVP, controlled every facet of the game, and a string of dominant playoff runs despite mediocre supporting casts

And that's leaving out 1999 (3rd in MVP voting and named Finals MVP) and 2005 (4th in MVP voting and named Finals MVP) on either end of that run.



What was Kobe's peak that he was higher? Shaq and Duncan both finished ahead of Kobe in MVP voting literally every year from 99/00-04/05, and Lebron finished ahead of Kobe every year from 04/05-09/10 except 07-08. Kobe didn't have a single "peak" where he was widely regarded to be on top.


Duncan's supporting casts during that period weren't anything to talk about either. He was the main leader, main scorer, main rebounder, the core of the defense, and a major distributor for his team through that entire period.

 

[FlyRy]

WHAT KIND OF CASUAL ARGUES THIS LMFAO

BRON HAD LIKE 3 GOOD YEARS DEFENSIVELY (MOSTLY OFF THE BALL DEFENSE)

KOBE HAS MADE THE MOST ALL-DEFENSIVE TEAMS IN NBA HISTORY - ONE OF THE GREATEST 2 WAY SHOOTING GUARDS OF ALL TIME, AND WAS A FIERCE LOCK DOWN DEFENDER IN HIS PRIME.

THEY NOT EVEN CLOSE.

'To put it bluntly, Kobe's defense is highly overrated. According to DRPM, he hasn't had a large positive impact on defense in a single one of the past 15 seasons. He actually has been among the league's poorest defensive wings for five years 'running."


“Kobe’s defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league’s all-defensive team. The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn’t played sound, fundamental defense."
-Phil Jackson

"Mesmerized by the ball, he’s gambled too frequently, putting us out of position, forcing rotations that leave a man wide open, and doesn’t keep his feet on the ground."
-Phil Jackson

 

[Sccit]

Yeah maybe Oscar was a poor choice to include on that list lol

Hakeem is debateable IMO because he was the best C in an era that included a lot of great big men. I get the 5 rings > 2 rings comparison, but he did win a ring as a 6 seed and that has to hold some weight, even if part of it is because the Rockets traded for Drexler midseason.

Duncan won 5 titles too, so he does have an argument since most people consider him to be the greatest PF of all time and he has 2 MVPs . The one thing I will give Kobe is that I think he had a higher peak that Duncan did, but I also think Duncan was more efficient and a bit more consistent

Shaq, meh, he could have been the GOAT if he had a work ethic of any sort lol. But he had one of the most dominant peaks by a C over a 15 year period and he did carry Kobe to the first title (although he didn't carry him to the second or third titles like some history revisionists try to claim)

I think you can at least argue LeBron over Kobe because he did it by himself for a long time. Maybe LeBron vs Bird is a better comparison tho

SO BASED ON THIS POST, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE ADMITTING THAT KOBE COULD BE ARGUED TOP 5 LOL

 

[Mentch15]

SO BASED ON THIS POST, IT LOOKS LIKE YOU ARE ADMITTING THAT KOBE COULD BE ARGUED TOP 5 LOL

No lol, still said he'd be top 8 or 9 at best for me

 

[Sccit]

I dont think anyone expects a Kobe stan to have the intelligence to know why getting a championship for a nothing franchise over the best team ever would mean more than playing for the best franchise ever with arguably the most dominant center ever and arguably the best coach ever lol

NICE SPIN

WINNING IN THE WEST WIT PAU AS YOUR SECOND OPTION > WINNING IN THE EAST WIT BOSH AS YOUR THIRD OPTION

 

[Sccit]

Look at your bio and then look at the stereotypes you Kobe suck offs/Bron haters are known for. The first and only thing you came in here talkin bout is finals records. I was telling the other guy what was a more impressive accomplishment. To the best of my knowledge, Kobe was minimum a favorite in 5 of his 7 final appearances. Guess his record. And one of those wins was carried by a god awful 4th quarter and severe ref ball.

I know youre gonna be a fan of Kobe's "impressive" championship wins, but can you objectively say any of those are even comparable to the 16 win? I would even go so far as to say that all of LeBrons wins were more challenging than Kobe's as far as the finals go

NOT EVEN .. ‘16 TOOK A HOBBLED STEPH, IGUODALA + LEBRON BEGGING THE NBA TO SUSPEND DRAYMOND FOR HIM TO BARELY EDGE IT OUT BY 4 POINTS ON A CAPN-SAVE-A-BRON SHOT BY KYRIE. KOBE BEATING THE CELTICS WITH PAU AS HIS SIDEKICK WAS WAY KORE IMPRESSIVE.

 

[Sccit]

I don't get this - makes me wonder if people actually remember Duncan's peak or not. Duncan's peak from 2001-2004 was epic:

2001: 22-12-3 with 2 blocks/game, 24-15-4 with 3 blocks/game in the playoffs, 2nd in MVP vote

2002: 26-13-4 with 2.5 blocks/game, 28-14-5 with 4 blocks/game in the playoffs, Won MVP

2003: 23-13-4 with 3 blocks/game, beat down Shaq's Lakers in the playoffs, 25-15-5 with 3 blocks/game in the playoffs, Won MVP, 25-17-5 and 5 blocks/game in the finals for Finals MVP

2004: 22-12-3 with 3 blocks/game, 22-11-3 with 2 blocks/game in the playoffs, 2nd in MVP vote


In four years he had two MVPs, two 2nd-place in MVPs and a Finals MVP, controlled every facet of the game, and a string of dominant playoff runs despite mediocre supporting casts

And that's leaving out 1999 (3rd in MVP voting and named Finals MVP) and 2005 (4th in MVP voting and named Finals MVP) on either end of that run.



What was Kobe's peak that he was higher? Shaq and Duncan both finished ahead of Kobe in MVP voting literally every year from 99/00-04/05, and Lebron finished ahead of Kobe every year from 04/05-09/10 except 07-08. Kobe didn't have a single "peak" where he was widely regarded to be on top.


Duncan's supporting casts during that period weren't anything to talk about either. He was the main leader, main scorer, main rebounder, the core of the defense, and a major distributor for his team through that entire period.

SHUT UP, NERD

SPURS WERE JUST AS GOOD WHEN DUNCAN RETIRED - HE WON TITLES THERE AS A ROLE PLAYER SMFH

LOOK AT WHAT HAPPENED TO THE LAKERS WHEN KOBE WAS NO LONGER KOBE.

ANYONE WHO DOESNT UNDERSTAND THAT DUNCAN WAS KG STATUS IN A MUCH BETTER CIRCUMSTANCE IS NOT KNOWIN.

AND THATS NOT A KNOCK ON KG .. BOTH GREAT PLAYERS - NEITHER GOAT TIER THO

 

[Kobes Two Jerseys]

NICE SPIN

WINNING IN THE WEST WIT PAU AS YOUR SECOND OPTION > WINNING IN THE EAST WIT BOSH AS YOUR THIRD OPTION

Its comedy how dudes act like Pau was Duncan, Malone and Barkley rolled into one player.

 

[Sccit]

'To put it bluntly, Kobe's defense is highly overrated. According to DRPM, he hasn't had a large positive impact on defense in a single one of the past 15 seasons. He actually has been among the league's poorest defensive wings for five years 'running."


“Kobe’s defense, to be accurate, has faltered in recent years, despite his presence on the league’s all-defensive team. The voters have been seduced by his remarkable athleticism and spectacular steals, but he hasn’t played sound, fundamental defense."
-Phil Jackson

"Mesmerized by the ball, he’s gambled too frequently, putting us out of position, forcing rotations that leave a man wide open, and doesn’t keep his feet on the ground."
-Phil Jackson

PHIL IS A MASTER MANIPULATOR, ANY1 WHO TAKES HIM SERIOUS NEEDS TO SLAP HIMSELF

 

[Sccit]

No lol, still said he'd be top 8 or 9 at best for me

NAME 9 BETTER PLAYERS - YOUR LIST FELL SHORT

 

[chowism]

Why do you think hero ball poisoned the game?

And honestly blame Jordan and the perception around him for hero ball being so dominant. The perception was Jordan did it all alone, while Scottie and em rode his coattails. Notice that hero ball shyt became big only after Jordan retired and the 00s brought us many 1 on 1 or 1 on 5 kind of players

Facts, the perception that Jordan did it alone has ruined the game. People only respect the scorer's now. I told these nikkas basketball is a team game and they said thats's a cop out. I don't care if you're the best player, if the other team has a better overall team then chances are that you will lose.

 

[chowism]

PHIL IS A MASTER MANIPULATOR, ANY1 WHO TAKES HIM SERIOUS NEEDS TO SLAP HIMSELF

You know Phil personally?

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Its comedy how dudes act like Pau was Duncan, Malone and Barkley rolled into one player.

Haha, that's hilarious, those people must be so stupid. Link?

 

[Jordan>>LeFrozen]

Facts, the perception that Jordan did it alone has ruined the game. People only respect the scorer's now. I told these nikkas basketball is a team game and they said thats's a cop out. I don't care if you're the best player, if the other team has a better overall team then chances are that you will lose.

I will say this. The perception that Jordan did it by himself caused a negative reaction by the league. Hakeem winning it as the only superstar on the rockets twice also helped the narrative that a one man show can win it all. As soon as Jordan retired, again we entered a era where a lot of teams were too dependent on one or two guys to do it all, where as in the 80s those teams were stacked as shyt. Lebron was a victim of this as well with those early Cavs.

To make matters worse, Jordan won 10 scoring titles, and pretty much created the idea that scoring was far more important than assist. In the 80s assists were just as important which is why guys like Magic and John Stockton has much respected and praise. Jordan sort of changed the concept.

And again, once Jordan retired, we entered the era of the chuckers IE Kobe, A.I and other players who were taking a gang of shots and iso balling. Dudes like Steve Nash, Paul, Rondo and Jason Kidd Slowly started to disappear when more point guards started to become primary scorers as well. The perception behind Jordan in the 90s further poisoned the 2000s and even to this day, although we are almost out of the 2010s, the NBA hasn’t truly recovered from it

How we rank players by the amount of championships they won was also caused by the Jordan effect as well.

 

[KOBE]

It's hilarious when people say Lebron shoots better because they only look at stats and never watched games.


Kobe was attracting a double team every time down on the floor. Lebron has so many three point shooters he never gets doubled. Ever. Point blank no team tries doubling him because he always loads his teams up with 3 point shooters to spread the floor. Kobe facing that many one on ones would have found it much easier to score as well.