Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

[puppetmaster]

Bruh, it was simple. That "no nikkas policy" bullshyt ruins more and more of the coli everyday and ain't no one in this thread tryna see it. I don't know your username so I don't know your history at all. All I saw was a dude new to the product and the first question he's asking is on some typical coli racism bullshyt.

You just watched a show with a black dude, a couple of pacific islanders, australians, white americans, a canadian, and a gang of asians. Did you see any racial insensitivity?

I asked because I don't want to get my hopes up as I work backwards through their programming, this show has me super intrigued. we're off on the wrong foot because you mistook me for "that type of poster"' which I get but I came to this thread from a place of learning since this is the only wrestling forum I mess with.

As I'm sure you know it's dangerous to judge an entirely new form of entertainment off one show. Hence why I asked here if I need to worry about that kinda shyt as its one of the things that's tainting supporting WWE these days financially. I ain't interested in derailing the thread with a back and forth, there's enough of that forum wide I'll be doing my research.

 

[Jmare007]

I don't think I ever said it, but my point in why stalling out Okada passing up Tana is a good decision, is because once that happens, there's pretty much nothing left in terms of HUGE deals, and they're going to have to ride Okada just like they rode Tana from 2010-2012. Take time with Okada while you can, because once you do that deal they're going to have to reach big time for something else.

Where I would disagree is with Kota. I think he is being groomed for a potential big time run in a big way. The graduating him up to the HW division, co-main event with Naka (and Naka putting him over on the mic afterwards). Kota is beloved by the media over there and I absolutely think making him a legit HW contender is on their to-do list for the year. If it weren't for the concussion, he probably would have scored some huge upsets in the G1 last summer, and I think he has a BIG showing in it this year.

As for Naito, and here's the thing with talking about puro. Without living over there, living the product, speaking the language, all we can go by is in-ring and how guys come off on shows. For one? Not the biggest Makabe fan at all, but he's apparently super charismatic and appears on Japanese TV a lot and fans love him. With Naito, Tana went out of his way in his book to talk about his promos and cites that as the reason for him not getting over the hump. The he does these weird, depressing, downer speeches sometimes that leave fans flat when they should be getting behind him and that he doesn't have a big star feel because of it. So can we really criticize NJ for not putting him over their bread winners?

Shibata is a long deal. Tana (publicly at least) buried the hatchet with him, but the OGs definitely didn't want him around, hence him jobbing in most of his big matches. And on top of that, he wasn't even working full tours and didn't until late last year. He had beef with Tana when he came backstage after the classic Ishii match saying he was finally enjoying wrestling again and Tana called him on just being in it for the check. Getting the tag titles, for him, is huge though and I think it was a great sign at how clearly, genuinely happy he and Goto were to do it. Shibata is going to have to prove his commitment before they give him anything. Having big singles matches with Tana and Naka to close out the year seems a good sign that he's doing that.

But to me, they could do much more interesting stuff with Okada than this losing streak story. But that's just fantasy booking at this point, I hope everything works out for them.

I honestly have no clue how big Ibushi might end up becoming as a star. He's shown he can hang with any type of heavyweight and be stiff as fukk if needed be at least.

My problem with Naito is them not doing anything to help him make the leap. I always use Chono as an example, that dude was dead on the water before the "Yakuza" gimmick, that was a complete 180° that worked for him. Why not try something like that with Naito? If he's too emo for his own good, then make him a heel and try to exploit that. Don't try to fix him by doing similar stuff that hasn't gotten him anywhere.

Didn't know about Tana burying the hatchet let's hope Shibata keeps paying his dues and earns the trust of the OGs.

 

[TrueEpic08]

I don't think I ever said it, but my point in why stalling out Okada passing up Tana is a good decision, is because once that happens, there's pretty much nothing left in terms of HUGE deals, and they're going to have to ride Okada just like they rode Tana from 2010-2012. Take time with Okada while you can, because once you do that deal they're going to have to reach big time for something else.

Where I would disagree is with Kota. I think he is being groomed for a potential big time run in a big way. The graduating him up to the HW division, co-main event with Naka (and Naka putting him over on the mic afterwards). Kota is beloved by the media over there and I absolutely think making him a legit HW contender is on their to-do list for the year. If it weren't for the concussion, he probably would have scored some huge upsets in the G1 last summer, and I think he has a BIG showing in it this year.

As for Naito, and here's the thing with talking about puro. Without living over there, living the product, speaking the language, all we can go by is in-ring and how guys come off on shows. For one? Not the biggest Makabe fan at all, but he's apparently super charismatic and appears on Japanese TV a lot and fans love him. With Naito, Tana went out of his way in his book to talk about his promos and cites that as the reason for him not getting over the hump. The he does these weird, depressing, downer speeches sometimes that leave fans flat when they should be getting behind him and that he doesn't have a big star feel because of it. So can we really criticize NJ for not putting him over their bread winners?

Shibata is a long deal. Tana (publicly at least) buried the hatchet with him, but the OGs definitely didn't want him around, hence him jobbing in most of his big matches. And on top of that, he wasn't even working full tours and didn't until late last year. He had beef with Tana when he came backstage after the classic Ishii match saying he was finally enjoying wrestling again and Tana called him on just being in it for the check. Getting the tag titles, for him, is huge though and I think it was a great sign at how clearly, genuinely happy he and Goto were to do it. Shibata is going to have to prove his commitment before they give him anything. Having big singles matches with Tana and Naka to close out the year seems a good sign that he's doing that.

1. If that's the case for Ibushi, then that's tremendous. He's a talent and a half, and he definitely projects like a star (something Naito doesn't, and probably can't, do). Let's put it like this: him mocking Nakamura's Boma Ye was, by quite a margin, my favorite moment of the night. If they're treating him as a serious star, that's just fantastic.

2. Not really criticizing them for putting over Naito, because the more I see of him, the more I really feel that he doesn't have it. After the 2013 G1, I made the point of asking whether New Japan should push a guy like that before he's ready and hope he rounds into form. Without understanding his promos, this is why. The guy looks scared shytless out there sometimes, and it seems like he wrestles not to screw up his position than to put on the best show possible. Tremendous in-ring talent, but until he can get over his persona issues, he's never going to be pushed as the guy. I don't see that changing in the near future unless they make him a moody heel, so...

3. Again, hopefully that means what you say it means, because they really need him to be in the IWGP Title mix, even if it's just as a Makabe-esque lower main eventer.

@Jmare007 True, but both Watanabe and Takahashi have Junior frames. They're not going to be able to be true heavyweights. I don't see ANY guy like that on the horizon for them, and they really need at least one of those to come around very soon.

@puppetmaster To answer your question: no, not really. It's actually far better than WWE when it comes to stereotypical gimmicks to be honest. Don't have to worry about much of that New Day-esque bullshyt with NJPW. You'll get the occasional gimmick that riffs on cultural differences (Bullet Club), but nothing explicitly offensive unless you hate Bob Sapp's routine (and he never comes around anymore).

 

[Jmare007]

.

@Jmare007 True, but both Watanabe and Takahashi have Junior frames. They're not going to be able to be true heavyweights. I don't see ANY guy like that on the horizon for them, and they really need at least one of those to come around very soon.

Watanabe can bulk up and be like Makabe/K.Sasaki in terms of frame. Takahashi I give you, dude is too small but he's the most talented young guy they have right now, at least he can make the Jr. Division interesting.

 

[Jmare007]

Ohhh and @TrueEpic08 let's not forget about Daichi Hashimoto. The son of gawd is one contract away and a little cocktail of Kawada steroids from being right in the thick of things in New Japan

 

[Scottie Drippin]

As far as future guys go, the only one I'm sold on now as being a huge deal for NJ in the future and I'm telling all the brehs to get on his wave; Konosuke Takeshyta. Kids only 19, been a pro for two years, still tons to learn and rough around the edges, but is SILLY good for his age. And, importantly, size. He's 6'2" (lanky as fukk now but again, 19) and works that sort of athletic style that Okada and Tana do, not a jr at all. As much as someone can have "it" while still being a teenage, kid has it.

He does THE fukkING BEST German in the game right. But my favorite thing about him?

His FIRST MATCH EVER was at the huge Sumo Hall 2012 DDT show...and it was a ten minute match with Generico. It's up on dailymotion. Again, FIRST match ever, kid is 16 in it, and he has a solid 10 minute match on a huge show. Of course, Generico carries him, but what a fukking way to start. Since Generico left? He's copped the Helluva Kick and the Blue Thunder Bomb and does them EXACTLY like Generico did. He even has a sweet Hero-esque elbow as his big strike late in matches, and a beautiful jumping ace crusher as well.

Right now he's mostly in a team with another young dude, Testsuya Endo, as the team Happy Motel. They won the belts off of Golden Lovers as a passing of the torch moment last fall (match is really good).

What really makes me think Kono is a future NJ signing? They sent Tanahashi to face him at the 2014 Sumo Hall show, and with the working relationship DDT and NJ have I absolutely see him coming over in a few years. With Kenny gone and Ibushi taking more of a backseat in DDT, he and Endo stepped up in 2014 and 2015 should be a huge breakout year for both of them. Kid is an absolute fukking natural.

Seriously, look out for him.

 

[Jmare007]

As far as future guys go, the only one I'm sold on now as being a huge deal for NJ in the future and I'm telling all the brehs to get on his wave; Konosuke Takeshyta. Kids only 19, been a pro for two years, still tons to learn and rough around the edges, but is SILLY good for his age. And, importantly, size. He's 6'2" (lanky as fukk now but again, 19) and works that sort of athletic style that Okada and Tana do, not a jr at all. As much as someone can have "it" while still being a teenage, kid has it.

He does THE fukkING BEST German in the game right. But my favorite thing about him?

His FIRST MATCH EVER was at the huge Sumo Hall 2012 DDT show...and it was a ten minute match with Generico. It's up on dailymotion. Again, FIRST match ever, kid is 16 in it, and he has a solid 10 minute match on a huge show. Of course, Generico carries him, but what a fukking way to start. Since Generico left? He's copped the Helluva Kick and the Blue Thunder Bomb and does them EXACTLY like Generico did. He even has a sweet Hero-esque elbow as his big strike late in matches, and a beautiful jumping ace crusher as well.

Right now he's mostly in a team with another young dude, Testsuya Endo, as the team Happy Motel. They won the belts off of Golden Lovers as a passing of the torch moment last fall (match is really good).

What really makes me think Kono is a future NJ signing? They sent Tanahashi to face him at the 2014 Sumo Hall show, and with the working relationship DDT and NJ have I absolutely see him coming over in a few years. With Kenny gone and Ibushi taking more of a backseat in DDT, he and Endo stepped up in 2014 and 2015 should be a huge breakout year for both of them. Kid is an absolute fukking natural.

Seriously, look out for him.

I've heard about him but never really put much thought about it

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

As far as future guys go, the only one I'm sold on now as being a huge deal for NJ in the future and I'm telling all the brehs to get on his wave; Konosuke Takeshyta. Kids only 19, been a pro for two years, still tons to learn and rough around the edges, but is SILLY good for his age. And, importantly, size. He's 6'2" (lanky as fukk now but again, 19) and works that sort of athletic style that Okada and Tana do, not a jr at all. As much as someone can have "it" while still being a teenage, kid has it.

He does THE fukkING BEST German in the game right. But my favorite thing about him?

His FIRST MATCH EVER was at the huge Sumo Hall 2012 DDT show...and it was a ten minute match with Generico. It's up on dailymotion. Again, FIRST match ever, kid is 16 in it, and he has a solid 10 minute match on a huge show. Of course, Generico carries him, but what a fukking way to start. Since Generico left? He's copped the Helluva Kick and the Blue Thunder Bomb and does them EXACTLY like Generico did. He even has a sweet Hero-esque elbow as his big strike late in matches, and a beautiful jumping ace crusher as well.

Right now he's mostly in a team with another young dude, Testsuya Endo, as the team Happy Motel. They won the belts off of Golden Lovers as a passing of the torch moment last fall (match is really good).

What really makes me think Kono is a future NJ signing? They sent Tanahashi to face him at the 2014 Sumo Hall show, and with the working relationship DDT and NJ have I absolutely see him coming over in a few years. With Kenny gone and Ibushi taking more of a backseat in DDT, he and Endo stepped up in 2014 and 2015 should be a huge breakout year for both of them. Kid is an absolute fukking natural.

Seriously, look out for him.

i need to check this guy out then but breh your post on the Okada/Tana thing is masterful and captures the true spirit of puro.


I admittedly was upset that Okada lost again but, after you explained it, it makes so much sense on every level to slow burn it. And of course its better to not look at this with the eyes of an american booker who would have ruined this angle two years ago.


Glad to see Goto get a title even if its a tag belt as i still feel like he is woefully misused. It seems like he will be in the Tenzan-ish role from here on out.

Question here is whats next? Its too early to speculate on the G1 but who do you think wins the NJ Cup this year?

Part of me wants to say AJ so he can have a Tanahashi match for the belt but id love to see an underdog take it

 

[Scottie Drippin]

i need to check this guy out then but breh your post on the Okada/Tana thing is masterful and captures the true spirit of puro.


I admittedly was upset that Okada lost again but, after you explained it, it makes so much sense on every level to slow burn it. And of course its better to not look at this with the eyes of an american booker who would have ruined this angle two years ago.


Glad to see Goto get a title even if its a tag belt as i still feel like he is woefully misused. It seems like he will be in the Tenzan-ish role from here on out.

Question here is whats next? Its too early to speculate on the G1 but who do you think wins the NJ Cup this year?

Part of me wants to say AJ so he can have a Tanahashi match for the belt but id love to see an underdog take it

AJ pinned Tana today, so traditional logic says AJ/Tana at The New Beginning, which I hate, as it kills almost any idea of AJ winning and feels like a waste. I'd be all for Tana/MiSu at new beginning.

Picking a winner of the NJC is fukking impossible Shibata was the logical choice last year after Gedo talked about him after Okada/Goto, then he loses to Shelton in the second round

MAYBE an outside chance of Ibushi winning and challenging Naka for the IC belt? I really don't know. It's the tournament that's the biggest toss-up as they obviously don't care about protecting it as much as the G1. I could see Naito winning and challenging Tana in the summer.

And yeah, I'm big time on the Konosuke train. Happy Motel are getting their chance to replace Golden Lovers as the "it" duo in DDT. 2015 I'm hoping he works some more longer singles stuff and maybe pops up for a few different companies. Dude has a big future.

 

[23Barrettcity]

But to me, they could do much more interesting stuff with Okada than this losing streak story. But that's just fantasy booking at this point, I hope everything works out for them.

I honestly have no clue how big Ibushi might end up becoming as a star. He's shown he can hang with any type of heavyweight and be stiff as fukk if needed be at least.

My problem with Naito is them not doing anything to help him make the leap. I always use Chono as an example, that dude was dead on the water before the "Yakuza" gimmick, that was a complete 180° that worked for him. Why not try something like that with Naito? If he's too emo for his own good, then make him a heel and try to exploit that. Don't try to fix him by doing similar stuff that hasn't gotten him anywhere.

Didn't know about Tana burying the hatchet let's hope Shibata keeps paying his dues and earns the trust of the OGs.

Ibushi made me a fan , naito has shown me nothing except cool ring jacket . Ibushi taunting >>>>>> naito

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

AJ pinned Tana today, so traditional logic says AJ/Tana at The New Beginning, which I hate, as it kills almost any idea of AJ winning and feels like a waste. I'd be all for Tana/MiSu at new beginning.

Picking a winner of the NJC is fukking impossible Shibata was the logical choice last year after Gedo talked about him after Okada/Goto, then he loses to Shelton in the second round

MAYBE an outside chance of Ibushi winning and challenging Naka for the IC belt? I really don't know. It's the tournament that's the biggest toss-up as they obviously don't care about protecting it as much as the G1. I could see Naito winning and challenging Tana in the summer.

And yeah, I'm big time on the Konosuke train. Happy Motel are getting their chance to replace Golden Lovers as the "it" duo in DDT. 2015 I'm hoping he works some more longer singles stuff and maybe pops up for a few different companies. Dude has a big future.

I remember that. That Shelton loss was quizzical to say the very least. They really dont trust him do they?

 

[Scottie Drippin]

I remember that. That Shelton loss was quizzical to say the very least. They really dont trust him do they?

Imagine you're out one night, and a gang of like 10 dudes approach you and your boys for a scrap and ya'll are like 4 deep, and next thing you know the hardest one out of all of ya'll is ghost. The three of ya'll manage to gut the shyt and pull the W out but not without damn near losing your lives, and the dude that dip just shows up like a week later at a BBQ function ya'll throwing asking for a plate like not a damn thing happened

Tana musta been in a meeting like

when they said Shibata was coming back on some 'YA'LL JUST GONNA LET THAT nikka COME BACK NOW WE MADE IT AND shyt?

 

[Jmare007]

Imagine you're out one night, and a gang of like 10 dudes approach you and your boys for a scrap and ya'll are like 4 deep, and next thing you know the hardest one out of all of ya'll is ghost. The three of ya'll manage to gut the shyt and pull the W out but not without damn near losing your lives, and the dude that dip just shows up like a week later at a BBQ function ya'll throwing asking for a plate like not a damn thing happened

Tana musta been in a meeting like

when they said Shibata was coming back on some 'YA'LL JUST GONNA LET THAT nikka COME BACK NOW WE MADE IT AND shyt?

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Imagine you're out one night, and a gang of like 10 dudes approach you and your boys for a scrap and ya'll are like 4 deep, and next thing you know the hardest one out of all of ya'll is ghost. The three of ya'll manage to gut the shyt and pull the W out but not without damn near losing your lives, and the dude that dip just shows up like a week later at a BBQ function ya'll throwing asking for a plate like not a damn thing happened

Tana musta been in a meeting like

when they said Shibata was coming back on some 'YA'LL JUST GONNA LET THAT nikka COME BACK NOW WE MADE IT AND shyt?

That is humorously dead on. Poor Goto just got feeling back in his legs after that asswhoopin

 

[TrueEpic08]

Imagine you're out one night, and a gang of like 10 dudes approach you and your boys for a scrap and ya'll are like 4 deep, and next thing you know the hardest one out of all of ya'll is ghost. The three of ya'll manage to gut the shyt and pull the W out but not without damn near losing your lives, and the dude that dip just shows up like a week later at a BBQ function ya'll throwing asking for a plate like not a damn thing happened

Tana musta been in a meeting like

when they said Shibata was coming back on some 'YA'LL JUST GONNA LET THAT nikka COME BACK NOW WE MADE IT AND shyt?

This is the most perfect explanation of that situation I've ever seen.