Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

Apex

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What matches would you guys recommend off the two new shows? I don't feel like watching both shows fully.
 

Honga Ciganesta

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Tana/Shibata was good but I don't think it touched their G1 match. Pretty perplexing rating from Dave. I was kinda the opposite to him, I loved the stiffness but I wasn't really gripped by the story. His thoughts:

The top match on 9/21 was Tanahashi vs. Shibata, which to me, reminded me of Bret Hart vs. Steve Austin for its sense of realism and feel of being an epic match. It was far more physical, which I don’t necessarily take as a positive, and part of me takes as a strong negative. There’s a line between physical entertaining wrestling that tells a story, and just hitting each other as hard as you can and not having them block it. This crossed way over that line. Still, if they had hit each other half as hard and done the same match, it would have still been a match of the year candidate, because of story telling, pacing and execution.

It felt as real and as gripping as any match this year, even being left with serious remorse and guilt after watching it. It’s the exact style that Tanahashi criticized in his autobiography, saying that you can get the crowd with those kind of matches, but then you’ve set a standard that you can’t top. He also noted that while it does appeal to a certain part of the audience, he felt it limited its appeal to that one part of the audience. He favored a more artful style of athletic and psychological wrestling which he felt had more widespread appeal. But the match did also contain those elements, making it a complete classic, topping their G-1 match which was among the best matches of the year.

The story was that since Shibata beat Tanahashi in G-1, that for Tanahashi to win the rematch, he had to fight and beat Shibata at his own game. After the match, that felt far more like a fight, the two went face-to-face and talked to each other, and ended up shaking hands and hugging. It was symbolic in the sense that Tanahashi resented Shibata for leaving New Japan when the company was struggling, feeling they needed him, and then wasn’t happy when he was brought back when the company had started its turnaround. He also didn’t like Shibata’s ring style for the reasons said before. They have history, since they came from the same training class. Shibata had the edge because his father was a pro wrestler, and he was a champion high school wrestler, while Tanahashi was a pro wrestling fan and didn’t have a major athletic background. They even debuted on the same day. Tanahashi was always the better pro wrestler, but at the start, it was Shibata who was given the better opportunities. Ten years ago, the decision was made that Tanahashi, Nakamura and Shibata would be the next generation of Shinya Hashimoto, Keiji Muto and Masahiro Chono, who built New Japan to its highest level of business in its history in the mid-90s. But Shibata quit as the promotion was going down, first to be the top star of a new promotion, and later to become an MMA fighter.

In the ring, after the classic, Shibata whispered to Tanahashi, “Thank you for saving New Japan,” and tears came down Tanahashi’s face

Maybe I should watch again :patrice:

Wrestle Kingdom’s main event will be an IWGP heavyweight title featuring the winners of the two key matches at King of Pro Wrestling.

On that show, A.J. Styles will defend the IWGP belt against Hiroshi Tanahashi, while Kazuchika Okada will defend his G-1 Climax briefcase and title shot against Tetsuya Naito. The press conference to announce the Tokyo Dome lineup is scheduled for 10/14 at the New Japan offices in Tokyo.

Tanahashi had stated before the Wrestle Kingdom show last year that if he failed to beat Okada for the title, that he would never challenge for it again. That was apparently when the booking was for Tanahashi to win the title and defend against Naito at the Tokyo Dome. But the booking changed late, with the idea of elevating the IC title to prominence by having Tanahashi and Shinsuke Nakamura feud over it in early 2014. Tanahashi admitted that he made the statement last year, but he hopes fans understand his attempting to beat Styles and win the title. The match was set up by Tanahashi’s win over Styles on 8/10 at the Seibu Dome in a non-title match, followed by his beating Katsuyori Shibata in what was arguably the best match of 2014, on this past week’s first major show, Destruction in Kobe, on 9/21.

The rest of the 10/13 show will have Nakamura & Yoshi-Hashi vs. Hirooki Goto & Shibata, Yujiro Takahashi vs. Tomohiro Ishii for the Never Open weight title, new IWGP jr. heavyweight champion Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Desperado in a title match, Kazushi Sakuraba & Toru Yano vs. Minoru Suzuki & Takashi Iizuka in a rematch from this past weekend’s big show, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima vs. Lance Archer & Davey Boy Smith Jr. in the latest of their best of 100 series for the NWA tag titles, the debut of Chase Owens as NWA jr. heavyweight champion, defending against Bushi, The Time Splitters (Alex Shelley & Kushida) defending the IWGP jr. tag titles in a three way against both The Forever Hooligans (Rocky Romero & Alex Koslov) and The Young Bucks, and a special eight-man with The Bullet Club of Bad Luck Fale & Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows & Tama Tonga vs. Togi Makabe & Kota Ibushi & Yuji Nagata & Tomoaki Honma.

While not yet official, on the 9/23 show in Okayama, new IC champion Shinsuke Nakamura, who beat Bad Luck Fale for the title on 9/21, issued a challenge to Shibata. That match now looks to be set up for either a late year show, the Power Struggle show in Osaka, or the Tokyo Dome.

ALL JAPAN

The 2014 Open tournament comes down to Suwama vs. Go Shiozaki on 9/28 at the smaller Osaka Bodymaker Colosseum (that’s the 1,500 seat arena, not the arena New Japan runs for its big shows). The winner would get the next Triple Crown title shot at Joe Doering.

The semifinals took place on 9/22 in Nagasaki before 146 fans (that number is just so sad), with Suwama beating Akebono in 8:24 with a sleeper and Shiozaki pinned Miyahara in 17:18 with the Go flasher.
 

23Barrettcity

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Meltzer doesn't usually shyt on the numbers, for the most part (at least, not that I've heard lately. Payouts, on the other hand...), but on how they evaluate house show draws. Basically, the A-circuit headliner (almost always Cena) gets a massive advantage in attendance and gross figures due to the cities and venues that circuit runs compared to the B-circuit (whose most notable headliner last year was Daniel Bryan). So, for example, when he discusses attendance figures at house shows and how they're used as criteria for evaluating talent, he's usually getting at WWE-borne hypocrisy and willful blindness about how the whole deal works (notably, that evaluating draws can be skewed by the fact that cards aren't finalized when tickets go on sale, so "drawing" can't really be ascertained in any concrete manner). This isn't to say that the figures are good in any objective or comparative manner, but from what I hear, that's often not Meltzer's greatest concern with the house show deal.g

Like @Jmare007 said, comparing NJPW's house situation with WWE's really can't be done, because the way in which they do their circuits are almost totally different.



:patrice:

I'm not sure I'd go that far, but it is interesting that Tanahashi only started getting all of this acclaim within the last 2-3 years, which coincides with the beginning of the most recent influx of great talents into the company. Whether that says more about what was around Tanahashi or Tanahashi himself, I don't know. But it is interesting to think about.
Ok fair enough I've only heard him say something a few times but I think recently I heard him take a shot again on the law radio I think .
 

TrueEpic08

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Wrestle Kingdom’s main event will be an IWGP heavyweight title featuring the winners of the two key matches at King of Pro Wrestling.

On that show, A.J. Styles will defend the IWGP belt against Hiroshi Tanahashi, while Kazuchika Okada will defend his G-1 Climax briefcase and title shot against Tetsuya Naito. The press conference to announce the Tokyo Dome lineup is scheduled for 10/14 at the New Japan offices in Tokyo.

Tanahashi had stated before the Wrestle Kingdom show last year that if he failed to beat Okada for the title, that he would never challenge for it again. That was apparently when the booking was for Tanahashi to win the title and defend against Naito at the Tokyo Dome. But the booking changed late, with the idea of elevating the IC title to prominence by having Tanahashi and Shinsuke Nakamura feud over it in early 2014. Tanahashi admitted that he made the statement last year, but he hopes fans understand his attempting to beat Styles and win the title. The match was set up by Tanahashi’s win over Styles on 8/10 at the Seibu Dome in a non-title match, followed by his beating Katsuyori Shibata in what was arguably the best match of 2014, on this past week’s first major show, Destruction in Kobe, on 9/21.

The rest of the 10/13 show will have Nakamura & Yoshi-Hashi vs. Hirooki Goto & Shibata, Yujiro Takahashi vs. Tomohiro Ishii for the Never Open weight title, new IWGP jr. heavyweight champion Ryusuke Taguchi vs. Desperado in a title match, Kazushi Sakuraba & Toru Yano vs. Minoru Suzuki & Takashi Iizuka in a rematch from this past weekend’s big show, Hiroyoshi Tenzan & Satoshi Kojima vs. Lance Archer & Davey Boy Smith Jr. in the latest of their best of 100 series for the NWA tag titles, the debut of Chase Owens as NWA jr. heavyweight champion, defending against Bushi, The Time Splitters (Alex Shelley & Kushida) defending the IWGP jr. tag titles in a three way against both The Forever Hooligans (Rocky Romero & Alex Koslov) and The Young Bucks, and a special eight-man with The Bullet Club of Bad Luck Fale & Karl Anderson & Doc Gallows & Tama Tonga vs. Togi Makabe & Kota Ibushi & Yuji Nagata & Tomoaki Honma.

While not yet official, on the 9/23 show in Okayama, new IC champion Shinsuke Nakamura, who beat Bad Luck Fale for the title on 9/21, issued a challenge to Shibata. That match now looks to be set up for either a late year show, the Power Struggle show in Osaka, or the Tokyo Dome.

Not that I think this will happen at the 10/13 show, but I wonder when or if New Japan's actually going to switch the briefcase in one of these matches. I'm figuring that the IWGP Title match at the Tokyo Dome's going to be Styles/Okada, but it's just interesting to think about, and made more interesting by the fact that Okada's final obstacle is ex-chosen one Naito.

ALL JAPAN

The 2014 Open tournament comes down to Suwama vs. Go Shiozaki on 9/28 at the smaller Osaka Bodymaker Colosseum (that’s the 1,500 seat arena, not the arena New Japan runs for its big shows). The winner would get the next Triple Crown title shot at Joe Doering.

The semifinals took place on 9/22 in Nagasaki before 146 fans (that number is just so sad), with Suwama beating Akebono in 8:24 with a sleeper and Shiozaki pinned Miyahara in 17:18 with the Go flasher.

:huhldup:

Holy shyt. All empires fall eventually, I suppose...
 

Jmare007

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Someone just close All Japan for fukks sakes :to:

Problem is that 3 new promotions will come out of that :snoop:
 

23Barrettcity

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Tana/Shibata was good but I don't think it touched their G1 match. Pretty perplexing rating from Dave. I was kinda the opposite to him, I loved the stiffness but I wasn't really gripped by the story. His thoughts:



Maybe I should watch again :patrice:
I really can't love that style of match it makes me cringe .
 

Scottie Drippin

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Can anyone make a summary of the downfall of AJPW?
In short:
After Baba's death in 1999, Misawa became company chairman. In 2000, he was voted out of his role (I can't remember the particulars, but it involved disputes with Mrs. Baba and seemed to be some political manuevering). Well, after that happened, Kobashi, Taue, and Rikidozan's sons (who were all execs) resigned from their duties. Three days later All but two of the contracted AJ wrestlers (Kawada and Fuchi) held a press conference saying they were forming a new company the next month.

AJPW will never be the same from that point on, but in 2000/2001 Kawada invades New Japan and they bring Tenryu in (who Giant Baba had sworn would never be in AJPW ever again). And THIS is where the fukkery starts. Mutoh forms a trans-company stabled called BATT, and beats Tenryu for the 3crown...then in 2002 shocks everyone but defecting on NJPW in whole and going to AJ. He took Kashin (one of NJ's top jr's) and more importantly fukking Kojima (LONG one of NJ's budding stars along with Tenzan but neither of them were getting singles considerations at the time.

Now, there was this weird thing where NJ is the biggest company in NJ, but basically have no stars. Between the fukkery with Hash, Mutoh leaving, Mrs. Baba breaking the cold war with Tenryu, and Kawada's loyalty, AJ has a pretty solid core of major stars to stop the bleeding. Mutoh becomes AJ president and gets Hash in from ZERO-1 and those for have the belt from the NOAH split until 2005 when Kojima finally takes over as the ace.

AJ will never be what they once were, but they're doing pretty alright. AJ completely falling off the goddamn map starts/ Shiraishi buys the company, and from everything I can gather, the dude is an absolute lunatic. Like, positively fukking insane. In early 2013 Akiyama, Go, Aoki, Kanemaru, and Kotaro come over from NOAH and it looks super promising, but then that summer as things with Shiraishi are going so terribly, Mutoh rounds up his troops and THEY split.

Then the rumor was that Akiyama and Co were going to split to form THEIR own company, but instead Shiraishi stepped down as president (still owner) and handed over the reigns to Akiyama.

And this is what we're left with. What hurts these companies the most is that they're doing all this shift while NJ is as steady and promising as they have been since the 90's.
 

23Barrettcity

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:patrice:

Haven't kept up with much besides New Japan and some Big Japan, so I couldn't name names you don't already know (Nakamura, Okada, Tana, Sekimoto, Ishii) :patrice:
What would Kentas ranking have been ? It feels like he's viewed in wwe bigger than he was in Japan , idk if it's the right correlation but it's like tna grabbing dolph and making him a top star ( which could work i guess like Christian cages run )
 

Scottie Drippin

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What would Kentas ranking have been ? It feels like he's viewed in wwe bigger than he was in Japan , idk if it's the right correlation but it's like tna grabbing dolph and making him a top star ( which could work i guess like Christian cages run )
Well, they're not really doing that, are they? Dude is on NXT feuding with a midcard tag team after all :heh:

But from 2003 on, and especially when he became the jr ace in 2005, dude was one of the most popular dudes in NOAH.

I think a great example of how popular he is/was, was in 2007 there was a card with Misawa/Sugiara and Akiyama/Yone, and the fans voted Morishima/KENTA for the ROH title to be the main event of the show over those two.

Before KENTA signed with WWE there was that rumor he'd work a few NJPW dates (maybe even BOSJ). I thought that would have been a great barometer to see how popular he really was.

Also, the question you asked doesn't really correlate. Are you asking who the BEST in Japan is, or the most popular/most over?

Because while he'd never crack the top five of most popular (Mutoh would still have to be in that number) from 2003 until NOAH lost the plot after Misawa's death, it wouldn't be unreasonable to have KENTA in a "best" top 10 or 5.
 
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