Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

[Scottie Drippin]

Japanese promotions lie about their attendances all the time, and so does WWE. Every damn live TV show they have (RAW or PPV) they boost the attendance figure, even if it is a sellout

They real bad number is the first Sumo Hall show. Less than 4k is a complete bomb for a WWE big international show. The other two are fine and WWE doing typical carny shyt.




The reality my ass, no damn puro promotion is pulling those numbers unless their name is New Japan, Dragon Gate or the big "Peter Pan" DDT show. fukk out of here with "smaller japanese-based promotions" do better than that. Wrestling is still in the fukking shytter in Japan - no matter how Meltzer pimps New Japan shows and matches - and companies doing more than 4,000 paid for shows is sadly the exception and not the rule.

Nothing against you breh, but sites likes rajah piss me the fukk off when they come out with stuff like this.

I wouldn't say "in the shytter", of course it's not the 90's, but it's not the mid-00's either.

I think there is a point though, that a big DDT show can out-draw the WWE, it's just that we've all known the point for years. WWE just doesn't have star power. I had three shows (two TV and one PPV) near me over the summer, and with DBry injured and Brock not on the cards, I had zero reason to spend the money to go see them. There are only two people in the company who are "must-see", and one of them is part-time and the other is injured.

That's why I can't really fault them for throwing Roman, Seth, and Ambrose at us and seeing what sticks, because they really, really need something and I'm sure these numbers that we only see months after the fact are a reason why.


As for Japan, though, looks like Naito is definitely going to be the next IWGP challenger, which isn't surprised. Okada and Naito both beat AJ in the G1, but Okada won it, so Naito gets the customary "pinned the champ in the G1" autumn title shot. He's in both tags with AJ on the big shows at the end of the month. I haven't seen a lot of Tonga this year, has he improved? Because the idea of Kota/Naito v AJ/partner in a tag match is status, but I'm afraid he could hold it back. He's just in there to take a fall, but still.

Hopefully the Fale/Naka thing is done after this. It'll be interesting to see overall how they start building to the Dome. I can't believe they're running Okada/Anderson for the briefcase AGAIN though. They always have good matches with each other, but Anderson loses literally every single meaningful match he has so it's such a moot point.

 

[Jmare007]

I wouldn't say "in the shytter", of course it's not the 90's, but it's not the mid-00's either.

I think there is a point though, that a big DDT show can out-draw the WWE, it's just that we've all known the point for years. WWE just doesn't have star power.

A DDT show can outdraw WWE because it's a one-time "Wrestlemania-like" event. They have one big show a year that people know it's gonna be start studded and have big matches. If WWE had only 1 big house show with decent promotion, it would draw just as much people.

Business is still horrible in Japan. NOAH and All Japan are glorified indys at this point, and there aren't other companies that are taking their spots to say current puro is in better shape than the mid 00's. It may not be worse, but there's not much of a difference

 

[Honga Ciganesta]

I think the mid 00's in Japan had higher peaks than the current product. You had NOAH doing huge business, running the Dome twice to big success, selling out Budokan, packed tours etc. Kobashi was a box office monster but even after he had to step back they did pretty well, as well as NJPW is doing at the moment. I don't really know much about how NJPW was doing around then, not good I know, and Dragon Gate wasn't at its current level but I wouldn't say the current product is miles ahead of that era.

New Japan are doing really well and expanding nicely but still a level below Kobashi led NOAH. AJPW had some strong numbers in the decade too, Kawada/Sasaki (though they drew more in NJPW), Tenryu coming in and drawing big, and later with Kawada/Hashimoto. Don't know enough about the indies in the two eras to compare really. It's an interesting debate.

 

[Jmare007]

It is an interesting debate. Specially NOAH vs New Japan.

I know NOAH was killing in Tokyo but not doing much outside of it and perception wise, New Japan was still king over there (even though we convinced ourselves NOAH was bigger due to Kobashi and Meltzer's pimping of their product). Would love to have detailed numbers from both companies without having to go over the numbers each promotions claimed at the time.

 

[Honga Ciganesta]

Yeah that's the thing, as you say Japanese promotions always exaggerate attendance so it's hard to get a definite number. Even looking up some stuff for my last post, CageMatch and PuroLove had different attendances for a few shows.

I'd love Meltzer to throw up an article about it, or even just address it. Hell one of those dudes on Pro Wrestling Only (that research if Ken Patera was a draw, why Watts went out of business etc) should do some research into it. I know I'm too lazy to do it

 

[Jmare007]

Yeah that's the thing, as you say Japanese promotions always exaggerate attendance so it's hard to get a definite number. Even looking up some stuff for my last post, CageMatch and PuroLove had different attendances for a few shows.

I'd love Meltzer to throw up an article about it, or even just address it. Hell one of those dudes on Pro Wrestling Only (that research if Ken Patera was a draw, why Watts went out of business etc) should do some research into it. I know I'm too lazy to do it

I think Meltzer wouldn't do research and just say that Kobashi was huge and New Japan was bleeding money. Which is true by the way, but doesn't go into the perception NJPW still had as the n°1 promotion nor the difference in attendance outside of Tokyo. That's what I'd be more interested in. But yeah, a motivated Dave could put on a great piece if he felt like it, I just don't see him ever doing it.

The perception thing I'm talking about comes from reading and talking to people from PWO. Dudes who either live in Japan, or lived over there during the 00s say that New Japan was still the biggest promotion in the country during the Inokism years. But that's from talking to casual fans and stuff., there's no legit research on the matter and from what I can gather, people like Dylan Hales (the dude behind the Patera research) wouldn't put work into this subject because numbers can't be trusted in puro


If I had some pull in a site like wrestlingclassics I'd be willing to go into this kinda of thing but you gotta be an old ass fan/historian/researcher to get shyt going in that place.

 

[The Rainmaker]

In reference to Naito getting booed, according to Meltzer:

For those who watch the shows and notice Tetsuya Naito getting booed a lot in Osaka, it’s because in 2012, he cut a promo in the ring saying that the next time you see me I’ll be IWGP champion and if you don’t, you should boo me. Well, he didn’t, so he gets booed in Osaka. He gets some boos in other cities, but not as much.

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

In reference to Naito getting booed, according to Meltzer:

that explains it. That self ether

 

[TrueEpic08]

that explains it. That self ether

If they were building to him eventually winning the belt and hopefully coming back to cheers in Osaka, it may make some sense. Since that's probably not going to happen any time soon, he's just an idiot.

 

[BAMBINO]

Do you have some triple threat or fatal 4 way match to recommend? (from any japanese organisation)

This one is dope as fukk :

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Do you have some triple threat or fatal 4 way match to recommend? (from any japanese organisation)

This one is dope as fukk :

Thats literally the only one that comes to my mind. Those matches dont happen often and unless theyre with Jr Heavyweights chances are theyre probably not good. Usually tag matches work better due to the pacing of the heavyweights

 

[JohnB]

Thats literally the only one that comes to my mind. Those matches dont happen often and unless theyre with Jr Heavyweights chances are theyre probably not good. Usually tag matches work better due to the pacing of the heavyweights

Yeah there was one with Brock vs Chono vs Fujita which was ehhh.

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

Yeah there was one with Brock vs Chono vs Fujita which was ehhh.

It was ehhh at BEST. But I also DESPISE Fujita so thats bias from me

 

[Beautiful Bobby Eatin]

So I ask yall this. When Okada gets the belt back from Styles, then what? Where do you really go from there? Where SHOULD they go?

 

[trick]

So I ask yall this. When Okada gets the belt back from Styles, then what? Where do you really go from there? Where SHOULD they go?

Okada vs Shibata, build Shibata up as a monster heel?