Essential Japanese Wrestling Discussion/News

MightyHealthy

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I've got a lot of BOSJ to catch up on. Too busy last week and I had to put AEW first on Sunday/Monday. :ufdup:

I'm liking ELP a lot in this tournament. Can't wait to see what they do with Moxley.
El Phantasmo is the standout heel, Robbie Eagles is a standout babyface (in Bullet Club clothing), and Rocky Romero is the vet that's still having incredible matches.

Definitely catch the dual block shows.
 

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El Phantasmo is the standout heel, Robbie Eagles is a standout babyface (in Bullet Club clothing), and Rocky Romero is the vet that's still having incredible matches.

Definitely catch the dual block shows.

Bolded for emphasis, holy shyt.

His match against Phantasmo was AMAZING.
 

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These jrs are going too long in their matches brehs :why: And the tour is too long in general, losing serious steam :francis: Sho and Shingo have been the highlights. I can't fukking stand Ospreay at this stage, stop with the posing off stuff you dweeb.
 

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These jrs are going too long in their matches brehs :why: And the tour is too long in general, losing serious steam :francis: Sho and Shingo have been the highlights. I can't fukking stand Ospreay at this stage, stop with the posing off stuff you dweeb.

I'd agree with you, but I've been skipping matches I know I don't care about. The preview tag matches? Skipped.

Anything with Douki? fukk outta here.

I haven't watched Kanemaru match in a hot minute.

As a result, these shows haven't felt too long.
 

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History of RINGS from the classic Obsever, Maeda was quite the character :mjgrin: I put in some videos too

RINGS, the first pro wrestling company to start out as a worked promotion and end up as a 100% shoot promotion, officially folded with the announcement of the company liquidation at a press conference by CEO Akira Maeda on 12/27.

The folding, effective after the company's final show, the traditional annual tournament finals on 2/15 at Yokohama Bunka Gym, may also spell the end of Maeda, one of the most influential pro wrestlers in history when it comes to influence on the evolution of the business. Due to that, the legacy of Maeda, 42, perhaps the single most important person when it comes to the popularity of both shoot style pro wrestling and actual shooting in Japan, will continue to shape the future industry. It is expected this will spell the end of Maeda's career in the pro wrestling and MMA world due to his unpopularity within both worlds in recent years, but stranger things have happened.

In its nearly 11 years, RINGS created the popularity of many of the biggest stars in today's Pride such as Antonio Nogueira and Gilbert Yvel. Before going to an all-shoot format in late 1999, the company had promoted some of the greatest technical pro wrestling matches in history, largely involving Kiyoshi Tamura in his various battles with the likes of Volk Han, Ilioukhine Mikhail, Tsuyoshi Kohsaka and Yoshihisa (now Pride fighter Norihisa) Yamamoto. It also created its own stable of pro wrestling stars, and while switching formats, forced all of them to go into shoot matches to defend their reputations, with both good and bad results.

The closing of the promotion was hardly unexpected. In fact, just last week in the year in review, it was noted that the company was on the verge of closing down. After WOWOW, its television network, a Japanese version of HBO that used its house shows for prime time specials, cut back its sponsorship money to the company last year, it was forced to scale back what it could pay to fighters and had to cut several of its fighters from contract. The company had already suffered a major blow when its biggest star, Tamura, quit in May, largely after being overworked, and the resulting injuries destroyed his career as he was losing match after match. It was a double edged sword as the company needed him on the shows to draw, even though the reality was he wasn't, due to a number of reasons, timing, a bad loss at the wrong time, size, the draw hoped for. But by overworking him and him losing so frequently, he lost whatever was left of his drawing power. Due to its financial problems and better offers, RINGS continually lost the stars it created to the Pride promotion.

There were numerous factors that caused the once hot promotion to fall in popularity over the past three plus years, far beyond the problems with Tamura. Its ultimate demise was, like most major chapters in the history of this industry, decided upon in a television board room, not that unlike the demise of WCW and a very different but equally revolutionary ECW. The death of RINGS, just weeks after the death of Battlarts (a descendent of Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi) leaves just Pancrase as the last active descendant of the UWF movement of the late 1980s, although the worked shoot style it revolutionized really died with the death of Battlarts, since RINGS had abandoned it for good more than two years ago.

One of the major network executives responsible for supporting RINGS had left the company and was replaced by a new director who didn't see RINGS as important to the station, and earmarked the company's sports budget more in the direction of other sports, soccer in particular. WOWOW used to promote RINGS in its infancy as one of its prime sporting events, very much similar to how HBO does its big boxing events. But once Maeda retired, the mainstream appeal was gone, and with the audience dropping, it had become an afterthought on the station. Maeda was informed earlier this month that the new director of sports programming had decided against renewing the contract when it expired on 3/30, and privately told the six fighters left under contract of this and that it spelled the death knell for the company on 12/21 at their show in Yokohama. It was the WOWOW sponsorship money that not only kept the company afloat for nearly 11 years, but allowed it to expand, running shows in places such as Holland, Georgia (Soviet Georgia), Russia, the United States (largely unsuccessful all shoot events in Iowa and Hawaii) and Australia largely as television specials for the station. Much like WCW, there were a lot of problems, not all related to loss of popularity, and perhaps even more due to the feeling it was a corporate embarrassment, that played a hand in the decision.

The hot-tempered Maeda was known for violent outbursts in public from the early days of his pro wrestling career in New Japan Pro Wrestling, where he was booker Hisashi Shinma's hand-picked successor when found as an 18-year-old karate star in 1977 as the biggest star in the Japanese wrestling world when Antonio Inoki would step down. He had his fights outside the ring. He all too often would lose his temper at reporters, which played a part in killing him at the end. His violent outbursts alienated many of his former supporters and eventually led to him being considered something of an embarrassment as the head of a sports organization, none of which helped him when it came time for his contract to be renewed. He was arrested this past year in the United States on a domestic violence charge against his secret wife. He also allegedly attacked Pancrase President Masami Ozaki when he thought Ozaki was trying to steal Jeremy Horn in a civil case which is still pending. He was also sucker punched backstage at a UFC event by Yoji Anjo in front of tons of media, to the point many were initially suspicious it was just a pro wrestling angle, although clearly it wasn't and Anjo was arrested. Anjo worked with him in the second UWF but later split apart as Maeda would constantly knock everyone publicly and many times challenged Yuko Miyato to fight (UWFI booker, another former UWF wrestler who had knocked RINGS) and always knocked rival promotions. Tokyo Sports, like many in the martial arts world, who didn't like Maeda by this time, considered, due to his history, this sucker punch being a case of poetic justice and not the cowardly act it also was. In its coverage, the newspaper blamed Maeda for getting what he deserved, noting some of his past indiscretions. Maeda was furious at the coverage and punched a reporter from the newspaper in full view of numerous members of the media in August after a meeting with New Japan to set up interpromotional ideas that he was hoping would save his company. Due to the incident receiving so much negative coverage, New Japan refused to work with Maeda. The newspaper, the largest sports daily in Japan, then refused to cover RINGS events, which greatly hurt the group's popularity.

In October, there was another embarrassing story in Weekly Friday, a popular businessman's magazine with huge circulation, which was somehow given possession of a videotape shot three years earlier backstage at a show in Kagoshima. Maeda, upset at Wataru Sakata for his performance in a match, beat the hell out of him and practically tortured him in the dressing room after the match. The combination of these type of stories and the promotion's fading popularity combined with a non-wrestling fan put in charge of the sports budget at WOWOW were the death blows to the organization.



Maeda being the biggest star in Japanese wrestling never materialized, as Inoki, like so many before and after him, had no intention of stepping down before those who were hungry for his spot became frustrated and fans at the time tired of him. But in other ways, he became far more important because of the industry changes he brought. When Shinma was ousted from New Japan in 1983 for numerous financial improprieties, he formed a new promotion in early 1984, called the UWF. After Inoki backed out on a promise to join him, Shinma used Maeda, then 24 and already a major player in New Japan, as his big star. Maeda, through the influence of Karl Gotch, the original coach of all the top stars with the new promotion (Maeda, veterans Yoshiaki Fujiwara and Osamu Kido and future stars Nobuhiko Takada and Kazuo Yamazaki), changed the face of wrestling by popularizing the term shooting, building a wrestling style around suplexes, submissions and kicks. While the first UWF was not a shoot, it looked more realistic, and most of the audience believed it to be the real deal. UWF gained a large cult following in Tokyo becoming the hottest show at Korakuen Hall in 1984-85, particularly when it lured Satoru Sayama out of retirement (which ended up forcing Shinma out of the promotion he formed when Sayama did a he goes or I go power play), but couldn't draw on the road. Maeda would frequently do interviews during this period insulting Inoki, an idea very similar to Paul Heyman's for Shane Douglas on Ric Flair, only with 100 times the impact since everyone knew about it. Amid a major news scandal involving Sayama and financial problems, and a final event which saw a Maeda-Sayama match turn into a real shoot after the two were at odds for control of the group, for a few minutes (the much-smaller Sayama, recognizing he was in trouble, kept trying to kick Maeda in the groin to get disqualified), the promotion folded.



To great fanfare, Maeda went back to New Japan as a hotter star than ever. During his UWF days, Maeda frequently knocked American pro wrestlers (which haunted him later as most of the Americans didn't cooperate with him when he had to return to New Japan, giving him the rep that while he was great wrestling Japanese, he couldn't work with Americans, which was partially his fault as he came across to the Americans as having an attitude that he was above them), would get enraged at fans at house shows what would make a comment that the new style was boring.

The 1986-87 period with New Japan changed pro wrestling in that country forever. The feud with Maeda, Takada, Fujiwara and Yamazaki against the New Japan wrestlers was huge box office, and created a hardcore awareness of submissions like armbars, kneebars, Fujiwara armbars and half crabs as finishers. But the less spectacular submissions, while building up great heat and selling tickets for a hot feud, also was apparently so technical that it hurt casual fan interest and TV ratings in prime time started falling, which eventually resulted in New Japan's TV show being taken out of prime time and moved to Saturday afternoons. Years later, it was moved to Saturday nights past midnight, a death time slot, although it still did very strong business with the bad time slot. But it was a style years ahead of its time, and while older fans didn't understand it, when the kids who thought it was cool got older, it spawned the education and understanding of a new form of realistic pro wrestling, and later actually real pro wrestling, which led to the MMA boom that changed Japanese wrestling forever.

There were several incidents both in and out of the ring that defined the period. Maeda was a hothead with a shooter rep, and had steadfastly refused to put anyone over except Fujiwara, who his audience considered "real" and his equal, leading to booking problems since the big money Inoki vs. Maeda match couldn't be booked. In fact, it never took place (they did end up resolving some of their differences and worked in tag matches, but neither would ever put the other over). He once punched out Keiji Muto, another of the company's rising stars, in a bar. He had the infamous 1986 shoot with Andre the Giant, which was someone in the company's attempt rile up the Giant to humiliate Maeda and kill his shooter rep by not cooperating with him. The result backfired. Once Maeda figured out what was going on and it turned into a shoot, Maeda's quickness and leg kicking ability largely humiliated the aging and possibly drunk Giant, who most in wrestling thought to be unbeatable in a street fight. Maeda took him down at will and Andre could never touch him, and by the end, couldn't even stand up because his legs had taken so much punishment and he was blown up.



Maeda's rep grew on October 9, 1986 when he defeated a world champion kickboxer, Don Nakaya Neilsen, in a worked mixed match which was a classic at the time, as the semi-main event on a show headlined by a disastrous match with Inoki against Leon Spinks. With the largest audience to watch pro wrestling in ten years (drawing a 28.9 TV rating), since the Ali-Inoki match, the general public saw Inoki struggle in a disastrous match, while Maeda shined in what was called at the time the greatest mixed martial arts match in history. Although the term hardcore was later changed by Heyman and used to describe a very different style, Maeda was actually during that period the first ever king of hardcore, with cult fans thinking he was really the toughest of all the pro wrestlers. One night at Korakuen Hall, he was booked in a singles match with Kerry Von Erich, an American superstar. The place was packed with Maeda supporters longing to see their hero humiliate a fake U.S. star, but instead, when booked as an evenly-fought double count out, fans were furious, and not in a heat building way, leaving Maeda was even more frustrated with how he was being used. This led to a later date in the same building and rumors were out before the show that something was going to happen. And it did. In a six-man pitting a UWF team against New Japan, Riki Choshu, New Japan's most popular wrestler at the time, held Kido in a scorpion deathlock, which tied up his hands and left him defenseless. Maeda came in for the save, and kicked Choshu, full force, in the eye, breaking Choshu's orbital bone and his eye began swelling up and bleeding. The blow actually didn't knock Choshu out, or even down and you can imagine how furious he was, but Masa Saito managed to calm everything down before it got out of hand in the ring, although Choshu did do a number on Maeda's belongings when he got to the dressing room.

 

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Maeda was suspended immediately for the unprofessional act. New Japan was willing to bring him back if he agreed to several stipulations, including six months of having to wrestle in Mexico (doing Lucha Libre or American style would be the ultimate insult because of everything he had said) as well as put Choshu over clean in a singles match because in its own bizarre way the incident had hurt Choshu's reputation with the fans. Instead, Maeda got backers, and in 1988, the second UWF was formed. While the first UWF was only a success in Tokyo, Maeda's name had grown from the two years of New Japan TV, and mainstream fans understood the style better from its television exposure. Not unlike Vince McMahon, and Rikidozan before him, the man who perpetrated the unprofessional and cowardly act benefitted by their business growing to greater heights than anyone could imagine. Maeda, in the eyes of many fans, was the guy so hardcore he wanted to fight for real and New Japan fired him for it, and now he was going to have his own company where the pro wrestlers fought for real.

It immediately become the hottest wrestling promotion in the world, selling out every show in minutes behind Maeda, who was voted 1988 Wrestler of the Year, still the only wrestler in history not in one of the big four historical promotions of this generation (NWA/WCW, WWF, All Japan or New Japan) to win the award. The peak was on November 29, 1989, when Maeda became the first wrestler ever to sellout the Tokyo Dome, drawing the largest gate in wrestling history up to that point ($2.9 million) for his match with European judo champion Willie Wilhelm. But due to mismanagement with finances, that company folded barely one year later, leading to the three top stars, Maeda, Takada and Fujiwara, going their separate ways. And all having a hand in changing pro wrestling forever.

Fujiwara formed Pro Wrestling Fujiwara Gumi, which had the least success of the three, but ended up leading to the most revolutionary move of all, when the group's three top younger stars, Wayne Shamrock (who later became famous as Ken Shamrock), Masakatsu Funaki and Minoru Suzuki quit, largely frustrated at the aging Fujiwara's refusal to pass the torch to them. In 1993, they formed Pancrase, the first attempt at doing legitimate pro wrestling matches. Takada formed UWFI, which was hot as hell for several years, but collapsed rather quickly for a number of reasons, part of which was Takada's never facing Rickson Gracie after the incident where Gracie destroyed Anjo in a dojo fight. But Takada's fame from that period led not only to the hottest feud up to that point in pro wrestling history with the New Japan vs. UWFI feud and Takada's string of record breaking houses against the New Japan stars in 1995-96. Years later, when the Takada-Rickson Gracie matches finally took place, it put Pride on the map.

Maeda went his own way, figuratively turning his back on pro wrestling, by teaming with WOWOW to do an offshoot of the UWF, only claiming it to not be pro wrestling, even though it was, and claiming it to be a new sport they were going to invent called RINGS. His first goal was to avoid all ties with pro wrestling, by not using any North Americans or Mexicans, even if they had experience with only so-called (worked) shoot promotions. His talent instead came from contacts that gave him access to Eastern European Olympic athletes, Russian sambo champions and big real fighters, street fighters and bouncers from Holland. The idea was not to use anyone with a taint of pro wrestling in them, a doctrine they didn't always follow. Many of his hardcore followers were mad, when years later, Maeda brought in Fujiwara to be his opponent on a big show, but it ended up being a major financial success. A modern day James Naismith was his new goal.

Because Maeda was such a big mainstream name and draw, RINGS, which opened in May 1991 was drawing huge crowds for monthly shows to see Maeda face largely unknown fighters. The shows were built around Maeda as the big draw, and a famous karate fighter named Masaaki Satake, an aging Holland Sambo legend named Chris Dolman and his stable of fierce Amsterdam street fighters and bouncers, most notably dikk Vrij, Maeda's first major opponent, and Hanse Nyman. One of his leading promoters was a Seido Kaikan karate studio owner named Kazuyoshi Ishii, who learned about the promotion of pro wrestling, brought it to the martial arts world, and two years later, created K-1 with Satake as his first major drawing card. The original Battle Dimension tournament in 1992, a worked format which led to the popularity of similar tournaments in the shoot world, featured future K-1 stars Satake and Nobuaki Kikuta doing worked pro wrestling matches. In a first round match on October 29, 1992, Maeda beat a reputed sambo champion from Russia named Volk Han. Han would go on to become his greatest in-ring rival, one of the most popular foreigners athletes of the decade in Japan and the 90's great innovator in submission and worked shoot wrestling.

RINGS would often do shoot matches on the undercard, although that wasn't revolutionary because UWF had done some shoots as well, although never with any of the big names. The ultimate Maeda irony was that his dream was to create a sport, not pro wrestling organization, where they would fight for real under pro wrestling rules. RINGS started with points for knockdowns and rope breaks, and with no closed fist punching. As UFC style fighting gained popularity, rope breaks and points were eliminated and finally, fighters started wearing gloves and punching was legalized. The only difference RINGS maintained to the end as compared to a Pride, Pancrase or UFC, was no closed fist punching or knees on the ground, leading to more of an emphasis on submission technique as opposed to brawling and ground-and-pound. With more frequent stand-ups, it created a cleaner and faster-paced and less brutal looking sport. But it was also one less marketable, particularly in countries that had seen UFC or Vale Tudo first like the United States. In the end, Maeda temporarily did achieve his goal. But he himself had to retire to do so, because he himself was never willing to risk his reputation in a shoot.

Maeda and Han largely carried the promotion through its most successful box office period through 1996. After Yamamoto, who had been a jobber up to that point, went 21:00 in his first shoot match ever, against none other than Rickson Gracie, he started getting pushed as the guy who would replace Maeda on top. But it was a struggle, as Maeda's bad knees forced several operations, and business was always weak during his time off using Yamamoto on top. Finally, when Tamura, already something of a big star as Takada's No. 2 star in UWFI, who started with the original UWF as a teenager and was injured in his first match by Maeda, refused to participate in the New Japan vs. UWFI feud, he chose RINGS above Pancrase and was an immediate big hit. Tamura largely carried the main events in 1996, and even though he was just 185-pounds, his ability to make worked matches look real and combine pro wrestling psychology with shoot tactics made him an in ring phenomenon. Some would say he was the best performer in the entire business, and he became an immediate drawing card as every wrestler who jumps promotions with a name should be when handled correctly. With Maeda out, Tamura and Han saved the 1996-97 tournament and had a classic final match on January 22, 1997 before 11,800 fans at Budokan Hall with Han winning. Maeda, whose knees and conditioning had gotten so bad by this point he was a shell of his former self, knew retirement was near. He put Tamura over by submission in the semifinals of the 1997-98 tournament and Tamura, in spectacular fashion, won the tournament to become officially the group's No. 1 star.

But despite Tamura's skill and charisma, the promotion was never the same after Maeda retired on July 20, 1998 on what up to that point was the group's biggest show in its history, selling out the Yokohama Arena with 17,000 fans. When Maeda retired, the promotion started doing more and more shooting matches, to where it became 50% of most cards. This led to a few exciting pro wrestling matches mixed in with slower and duller shoots involving a lot of heavyweight Olympic style wrestlers with little experience in either striking or submissions, a recipe that led to falling gates, although the loss of Maeda was probably more important to the popularity going down. Another match of huge impact was when unheralded kickboxer Valentijn Overeem from Holland, who had waxed undercard fighter Wataru Sakata in a shoot match on a RINGS show in Holland, was brought over for a shoot match to get eaten up by the more skilled Tamura. While Overeem had Tamura by 30 pounds, Tamura had beaten people like that in the past, usually in the blink of an eye, because he was an expert for real at submissions. Even though it was only three years ago, it was a generation ago from a fighting standpoint, as the overall skill level of fighters hadn't evened out enough to where a weight disadvantage like that couldn't be overcome by greater skill. However, Overeem showed up with submission knowledge that nobody expected, and the unknown totally embarrassed Tamura, injuring him in the process, and badly hurting his rep. Ironically in Tamura, they had the real deal, as he proved with shoot wins over the likes of Renzo Gracie (Renzo's first ever professional loss), UFC champs like Maurice Smith, Pat Miletich and Dave Menne, as well as UFC stars like Elvis Sinosic and Jeremy Horn. He even had a 30:00 draw with Frank Shamrock which remains the only blemish on Shamrock's record in the last six years and to this day Shamrock says Tamura was the best kicker he was ever in the ring with. But Tamura's drawing power was never the same after the first Overeem match, even when he managed to get revenge via submission in a worked match a year later. The frequent shoot matches after the change in format led to him being overworked and broke his body down. After Tamura won the RINGS world heavyweight title, at 185 pounds, in a worked match against 320-pound Bitszadze Tariel (the one RINGS major star who was totally exposed when they went to shoots), he took a horrible beating when he lost the title as a shoot to Yvel, who had him by probably 35 pounds. Tamura could have won the match as he could take Yvel down at will, but due to the frequent stand-ups ordered by the ref, took terrible punishment as he couldn't hang with him standing. He was never the same in the ring, and after a series of losses, quit the promotion in May, which signalled publicly that the end was likely near.

From a notoriety standpoint, the company's biggest event ever was on February 21, 1999, when Maeda came out of retirement for the first and only pro wrestling match of Alexander Karelin. Karelin, who, with more than 250 consecutive wins in Greco-roman wrestling dating back 12 years and three Olympic gold medals, was considered by many to be the single greatest wrestler who ever lived. A ripped to shreds 296-pound Karelin beat Maeda is a very believable looking (so believable that to this day within the amateur wrestling world, Maeda's getting a submission rope break point on Karelin in the match was used as evidence that even the mighty Karelin could have been beaten in UFC) pro wrestling match. Karelin won via points, and gave Maeda quite a beating even though it was worked, before 17,048 paying $2,479,000 at Yokohama Arena--the largest gate ever for a pro wrestling match in an arena setting. While Karelin was the most famous, he was hardly the only Olympic level competitor brought to RINGS to do what amounted to pro wrestling matches. In fact, more Olympic athletes worked for RINGS likely than any pro wrestling promotion in history. The list includes Hank Numan (1980 bronze medal in judo for Holland), Dan Henderson (1992 and 1996 U.S. Olympic wrestler), Kiril Barbuto (Bulgarian 1992 Olympic wrestler), David Khakhalesshvili (Georgian judo player who beat Naoya Ogawa to win the 1992 superheavyweight gold medal), Pieter Smit (1992 Holland judo), Svilen Russinov (Bulgarian boxer who was 1992 bronze medalist), Zaza Tkeschelaschvili (1996 Georgia freestyle wrestler who became something of a cult favorite as Grom Zaza), Zaza Turminadze (1996 Bulgarian freestyle wrestler), Gogitidze Bakrouri (1996 Bulgarian Greco-roman wrestler) and Georgi Kandalaki (Bulgarian boxer).

In 1999, Maeda changed the annual tournament, and thus the promotion itself, to an all-shoot format, with an outstanding tournament won by Henderson. But by this time the company was being picked apart by Pride, which immediately raided Henderson. It also raided Yvel right after he won the world heavyweight title from Tamura.

Things had come full circle for the group, which in 1998 promoted some of the best pro wrestling matches in the world, when on February 24, 2001 at Sumo Hall in its final hurrah, before a near sellout of 10,260, it promoted perhaps the best shoot tournament ever in terms of excitement and easily the most underrated show of the year. Future UFC champ Menne had an incredible match with pro wrestler Hiromitsu Kanehara. Past the age of 40, the groups' most famous foreign star ever, Han, in a shoot format, lost via decision to Nogueira, and he turned out to be the most competitive of any opponent Nogueira faced all year, which showed that Han's reputation as a shooter that he brought to RINGS in the early 90s was legitimate. Nogueira later beat Kanehara and Overeem (who had tapped out UFC heavyweight champ Randy Couture in the semifinals in 56 seconds) to win the tournament. But Nogueira and Overeem were then snatched up by Pride.

Finally recognizing the mistakes they made by putting Tamura in with much bigger guys, who he was almost always competitive with but his body was breaking down, they created a 198-pound division for Tamura to win, but by this time his injuries were such that he wasn't even competitive with top guys of his own size. Instead, Ricardo Arona won the tournament, and immediately thereafter, was the next to jump to Pride.
 

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Can't believe people are hyping up BOTSJ :mjlol: This is the first time in like....15 years I recall any hype for it. What's the watch list, I might try to watch a few matches before bed because if I don't start before the G1 I'm definitely never watching any of these matches:russ:
 
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