Japanese Researcher Wants America To “Apologize” For Bombing Them

[Insensitive]

Japan literally kept their fascist culture post WWII.
Many important figures who committed rapes and murders DURING WWII would go on to hold important places in office and/or to structure their entire government and how it should be ran.

Japan is Germany with better cultural rehab but not enough of a stamping out of the fascist elements which still linger to this day and was once a core part of their identity.

I mean y'all know who Shinzo Abe's grandfather is RIGHT?

Lol. Japan is Germany if the Nazis couldn't flee to Argentina or integrate into the American government in some capacity.

 

[Insensitive]

Japan should've got a nuke for every asian girl who was gangraped and beheaded.

For every small village they torched and enslaved the survivors through drug addiction.

For every concentration camp they erected.

For every secret experiment they conducted on other human beings.

And the same thing shouldve been done to Italy and Germany.
They should've been nuked and turned into a fukking parking lot.

It's really easy to consider the human cost of dropping the nukes when you don't have to consider the sheer fukking monstrosity of their actions in the pacific.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

The problem with the argument against dropping the bombs is that there's a TON of evidence it was the wrong thing to do. So the arguments against it can go on forever and the quotes from our own experts at the time telling us not to do it go on forever.

It wasn't just our military leaders who said it was wrong, the intelligence experts who were literally reading the Japanese cables said so too.




"we brought them [the Japanese] down to an abject surrender through the accelerated sinking of their merchant marine and hunger alone, and when we didn't need to do it, and we knew we didn't need to do it, and they knew that we knew we didn't need to do it, we used them as an experiment for two atomic bombs."

- Brigadier General Carter Clarke, officer who prepped intercepted Japanese cables for Truman



"The diary of Walter Brown--an assistant to Secretary of State James F. Byrnes-- records that aboard ship returning from Potsdam on August 3, 1945 the President, Byrnes and Admiral William D. Leahy, Chief of Staff to the President, "agreed Japas looking for peace. (Leahy had another report from Pacific) President afraid they will sue for peace through Russia instead of some country like Sweden."



"...the Potsdam declaration in July, demand[ed] that Japan surrender unconditionally or face 'prompt and utter destruction.' MacArthur was appalled. He knew that the Japanese would never renounce their emperor, and that without him an orderly transition to peace would be impossible anyhow, because his people would never submit to Allied occupation unless he ordered it. Ironically, when the surrender did come, it was conditional, and the condition was a continuation of the imperial reign. Had the General's advice been followed, the resort to atomic weapons at Hiroshima and Nagasaki might have been unnecessary."

- William Manchester, American Caesar: Douglas MacArthur 1880-1964, pg. 512.



"Obviously . . . the atomic bomb neither induced the Emperor's decision to surrender nor had any effect on the ultimate outcome of the war."

- Brigadier General Bonner Fellers, in charge of psychological warfare on MacArthur's staff



"[T]he poor damn Japanese were putting feelers out by the ton so to speak, through Russia."

- Colonel Charles "Tick" Bonesteel, Chief of the War Department Operations Division Policy Section



"Obviously . . . the atomic bomb neither induced the Emperor's decision to surrender nor had any effect on the ultimate outcome of the war."

- Colonel Charles "Tick" Bonesteel, Chief of the War Department Operations Division Policy Section



"I think that the Japanese were ready for peace, and they already had approached the Russians and, I think, the Swiss. And that suggestion of [giving] a warning [of the atomic bomb] was a face-saving proposition for them, and one that they could have readily accepted...In my opinion, the Japanese war was really won before we ever used the atom bomb."

- Under-Secretary of Navy Ralph Bard



"During recent weeks I have also had the feeling very definitely that the Japanese government may be searching for some opportunity which they could use as a medium of surrender. Following the three-power conference emissaries from this country could contact representatives from Japan somewhere on the China Coast and make representations with regard to Russia's position and at the same time give them some information regarding the proposed use of atomic power, together with whatever assurances the President might care to make with regard to the Emperor of Japan and the treatment of the Japanese nation following unconditional surrender. It seems quite possible to me that this presents the opportunity which the Japanese are looking for."

- Under-Secretary of Navy Ralph Bard



"...in the light of available evidence I myself and others felt that if such a categorical statement about the [retention of the] dynasty had been issued in May, 1945, the surrender-minded elements in the [Japanese] Government might well have been afforded by such a statement a valid reason and the necessary strength to come to an early clearcut decision. If surrender could have been brought about in May, 1945, or even in June or July, before the entrance of Soviet Russia into the [Pacific] war and the use of the atomic bomb, the world would have been the gainer."

Under-Secretary of State Joseph Grew



"I have always felt that if, in our ultimatum to the Japanese government issued from Potsdam [in July 1945], we had referred to the retention of the emperor as a constitutional monarch and had made some reference to the reasonable accessibility of raw materials to the future Japanese government, it would have been accepted. Indeed, I believe that even in the form it was delivered, there was some disposition on the part of the Japanese to give it favorable consideration. When the war was over I arrived at this conclusion after talking with a number of Japanese officials who had been closely associated with the decision of the then Japanese government, to reject the ultimatum, as it was presented. I believe we missed the opportunity of effecting a Japanese surrender, completely satisfactory to us, without the necessity of dropping the bombs."

Assistant Secretary of War John McCloy



" Primarily it was because it was clear to a number of people, myself among them, that the war was very nearly over. The Japanese were nearly ready to capitulate...It seemed to me that such a weapon was not necessary to bring the war to a successful conclusion, that once used it would find its way into the armaments of the world...".

Special Assistant to the Secretary of the Navy Lewis Strauss

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Japan should've got a nuke for every asian girl who was gangraped and beheaded.

For every small village they torched and enslaved the survivors through drug addiction.

For every concentration camp they erected.

For every secret experiment they conducted on other human beings.

And the same thing shouldve been done to Italy and Germany.
They should've been nuked and turned into a fukking parking lot.

It's really easy to consider the human cost of dropping the nukes when you don't have to consider the sheer fukking monstrosity of their actions in the pacific.

Great user name. Type of person who celebrates the idea of mass murdering women and children and condemning thousands of babies to a lifetime of cancer and early death due the actions of men they had literally no control over.

Shouldn't America be a "fukking parking lot" too by those standards? So what gives us the right to decide who gets it and who doesn't? Why not turn England to a parking lot too, and Belgium, and most of our other allies? Aren't there more than one African nation where a subset took power and committed atrocities.....so does that mean we should kill all of their women and children too?

 

[Mister Terrific]

That's some sanctimonious bullshyt when the USA actually PARDONED all of the scientists in Unit 731 so they could get the results of their research and find out what they did.

Yep. That’s bad. Should’ve hanged every single one of them. But nope, we aren’t comparing the U.S. to Imperial Japan. You’ll lose every time. We aren’t doing war crimes denial today or trying “compare and contrast”

Yoshimura Hisato, a physiologist in Unit 731, had a special interest in hypothermia and used human subjects to test human's reactions to frostbites. Hisato routinely submerged prisoner's limbs in a tub of water filled with ice and held them there until the limbs were frozen solid and a coat of ice were formed over the skin. He timed the victims to check how long it took for the human bodies to develop frost bites. According to one of the witness to the frostbite testing, the limbs made a sound like a plank of wood when struck with a cane. Then he tried different methods for rapidly thawing of the frozen appendage such as dousing limbs with hot water, open fire, or leaving the subject untreated overnight to see how long it took for the prisoner's blood to thaw it out. Unit 731 was able to prove scientifically that the best treatment for frostbite was to immerse it in water a bit warmer than 100 degrees but never more than 122 degrees.

Spoiler: Nsfw

Vivisection is the practice of performing operations on living beings for the purpose of experimentation or scientific research. Vivisection was performed in Unit 731 without anesthesia to study the operations of living systems. It was performed on thousands of victims, mostly Chinese communist prisoners as well as children and elderly farmers. They were infected with diseases such as cholera and the plague, and then had their organs removed for examination before they died in order to study the effects of the disease without decomposition after death.

Subjects that were used to study the progress of gangrene had their limbs amputated and reattached to the other side of the body while others had their limbs crushed or frozen, or had their circulation cut off. After the body was used up and exhausted, they were normally shot or killed by lethal injection.

Spoiler: NSFW vivisection

Unit 731 studied bayonets, swords, and knives with the use of their prisoners. They also studied flamethrowers on both covered and exposed skin. They also set up gas chambers to test subjects with blister agents and nerve gas. They also studied prolonged X-ray exposure, which sterilized and killed thousands of testing subjects.

The Imperial Japanese Army was interested in the symptoms and treatment of syphilis. Male prisoners infected with syphilis were ordered to rape female and male prisoners to monitor the onset of the disease. More rapes were arranged until the exposure establish infection.

There were human subjects locked up and deprived of food and water to learn how long humans could survive. In order to study crash injuries, heavy subjects were dropped onto bounded prisoners. The effects of high G-forces on pilots and falling paratroopers were studied by loading human beings into large centrifuges and spun them at higher and higher speeds until they lost consciousness or died, which usually happened between 10-15 G's.


Female prisoners of childbearing age were forcibly impregnated so that weapon and trauma experiments could be done on them. Pregnant test subjects were infected with various diseases, exposed to chemical weapons, crash injuries, bullet wounds, and shrapnel injuries. Then they were opened up and the effects on the fetuses were studied. Pregnant women with syphilis was of special interests to the researchers of Unit 731.

Spoiler: NSFW babies being infected with disease

The totality of Unit 731’s research was in support of their larger mission, which by 1939 was to develop horrific weapons of mass destruction for use against the Chinese population, and presumably American and Soviet forces, if the time ever came.

To this end, Unit 731 cycled through tens of thousands of captives at several facilities across Manchuria, which had been occupied by imperial forces for years. Inmates of these facilities were infected with several of the most lethal pathogens known to science, such as Yersinia pestis, which causes bubonic and pneumonic plague, and typhus, which the Japanese hoped would spread from person to person after being deployed and depopulate disputed areas.

To breed the most lethal strains possible, doctors monitored patients for rapid onset of symptoms and quick progression. Victims who pulled through were shot, but those who got sickest fastest were bled to death on a mortuary table, and their blood was used to transfect other captives, the sickest of whom would themselves be bled to transfer the most virulent strain to yet another generation.

One member of Unit 731 later recalled that very sick and unresisting captives would be laid out on the slab so a line could be inserted into their carotid artery. When most of the blood had been siphoned off and the heart was too weak to pump anymore, an officer in leather boots climbed onto the table and jumped on the victim’s chest with enough force to crush the ribcage, whereupon another dollop of blood would spurt into the container.

When the plague bacillus had been bred to what was felt to be a sufficiently lethal caliber, the last generation of victims to be infected were exposed to huge numbers of fleas, Y. pestis’preferred vector of contagion. The fleas were then packed in dust and sealed inside clay bomb casings.

On October 4, 1940, Japanese bombers deployed these casings, each loaded with 30,000 fleas that had each sucked blood from a dying prisoner, over the Chinese village of Quzhou. Witnesses to the raid recall a fine reddish dust settling on surfaces all over town, followed by a rash of painful flea bites that afflicted nearly everyone.

From contemporary accounts, it is known that more than 2,000 civilians died of plague following this attack, and that another 1,000 or so died in nearby Yiwu after the plague was carried there by sick railway workers. Other attacks, using anthrax, killed approximately 6,000 more people in the area.


A few years later, as the war was nearing its end, Japan likewise planned to bomb America with plague-ridden fleas, but never got the chance. In August 1945, after Hiroshima and Nagasaki had both been bombed, the Soviet Army had invaded Manchuria and utterly annihilated the Japanese Army, and the emperor read his infamous surrender declaration over the radio, Unit 731 was officially disbanded.

 

[Mister Terrific]

Anyone who tries to defend US actions by claiming they were righteous or meant to end atrocities is full of shyt. The USA was involved in a power play and didn't give two shyts about anyone who died in atrocities during WW2. That's not to say that Japan didn't act in many evil ways, but the USA literally didn't care about that unless its own power was affected.

what power of the US were Japanese effecting by murdering 20,000,000 Chinese ?


The U.S. literally signed Naval treaty with Japan that hurt our Navy by limiting our navy production in tonnage which far outranked Japan’s.

Washington Naval Treaty - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

Isoroku Yamamoto, who later masterminded the attack of Pearl Harbor, argued that Japan should remain in the treaty. His opinion was more complex, however, in that he believed the United States could outproduce Japan by a greater factor than the 5:3 ratio because of the huge American production advantage of which he had expert knowledge since he had served with the Japanese embassy in Washington. After the signing of the treaty, he commented, "Anyone who has seen the auto factories in Detroit and the oil-fields in Texasknows that Japan lacks the power for a naval race with America." He later added, "The ratio works very well for Japan – it is a treaty to restrict the other parties."[26] He believed that other methods than a spree of construction would be needed to even the odds, which may have contributed to his advocacy of the plan to attack Pearl Harbor.



The U.S. was attempting to maintain the balance of power in Asia for most of the 20’s and 30’s. When we didn’t it was a massacre.

 

[IGSaint12]

The Japanese during this period were genocidal, mass raping, hyper racsits.

They were unapologetic Nazis who borrowed heavily from European race science.

They were completely and utterly out of control.

While I feel it's terrible that citizens were bombed back to the stone age, I feel we also need to understand
the monstrous atrocities they committed in that period.

Which is saying something because I pretty much cannot ever see myself siding with America during just about any period
they went to war.

Korean war is also jusitified. America is the reason South Korea even exists. I find it funny that one of the most justifiable wars is forgotten by many Americans.

 

[Insensitive]

I mean anyone black with some sense knows the US has ALWAYS been objectively shyt.

Their shady dealings with post WWII Japan (and Germany) and the lack of justice given to their victims is par for the course.

In the very same century they would go on to return and practically fukking embody Japan with their actions in Vietnam.

This does not make Japan any less monstrous.

 

[Amestafuu (Emeritus)]

After reading about Bataan, the Rape of Nanking, and Unit 731, they had that shyt coming.

Nuke blasting civilians is nutty.
Nobody but America could have did that and sold it as necessary to the world.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Yep. That’s bad. Should’ve hanged every single one of them. But nope, we aren’t comparing the U.S. to Imperial Japan. You’ll lose every time. We aren’t doing war crimes denial today or trying “compare and contrast”

Bullshyt, that is EXACTLY what you are doing. Whenever the American war crimes are brought up, you try to deflect by talking about someone else's war crimes, even though those crimes played ZERO part in the US decision to commit its own crimes.

The US government didn't give two fukks about Unit 731, they AWARDED the scientists who performed those experiments. The US government didn't give two fukks about Japanese atrocities, they PARDONED the Japanese leaders who made those decisions.

You're celebrating the mass murder of hundreds of thousands of women and children by bringing up completely unrelated atrocities committed by men who weren't even targeted by those nukes.

 

[Mister Terrific]

The problem with the argument against dropping the bombs is that there's a TON of evidence it was the wrong thing to do. So the arguments against it can go on forever and the quotes from our own experts at the time telling us not to do it go on forever.

It wasn't just our military leaders who said it was wrong, the intelligence experts who were literally reading the Japanese cables said so too.

Already debunked this. The Soviets were playing the Japanese in order to prepare for conquest of Manchuria and Northern Japan

Security concerns dominated Soviet decisions concerning the Far East Chief among these was gaining unrestricted access to the Pacific Ocean. The year-round ice-free areas of the Soviet Pacific coastline—Vladivostok in particular—could be blockaded by air and sea from Sakhalin island and the Kurile Islands. Acquiring these territories, thus guaranteeing free access to the Soya Strait, was their primary objective.[67] Secondary objectives were leases for the Chinese Eastern Railway, Southern Manchuria Railway, Dairen, and Port Arthur.

To this end, Stalin and Molotov strung out the negotiations with the Japanese, giving them false hope of a Soviet-mediated peace.[69] At the same time, in their dealings with the United States and Britain, the Soviets insisted on strict adherence to the Cairo Declaration, re-affirmed at the Yalta Conference, that the Allies would not accept separate or conditional peace with Japan. The Japanese would have to surrender unconditionally to all the Allies. To prolong the war, the Soviets opposed any attempt to weaken this requirement.[69] This would give the Soviets time to complete the transfer of their troops from the Western Front to the Far East, and conquer Manchuria, Inner Mongolia, northern Korea, South Sakhalin, the Kuriles, and possibly Hokkaidō[70] (starting with a landing at Rumoi).[71]

Meanwhile this is what the Emperor of Japan said regarding the decision to surrender


TO OUR GOOD AND LOYAL SUBJECTS,

After pondering deeply the general trends of the world and the actual conditions obtaining in our empire today, we[a] have decided to effect a settlement of the present situation by resorting to an extraordinary measure.

We have ordered our government to communicate to the governments of the United States, Great Britain, China and the Soviet Union that our empire accepts the provisions of their joint declaration.[11]

To strive for the common prosperity and happiness of all nations as well as the security and well-being of our subjects is the solemn obligation which has been handed down by our imperial ancestors and which lies close to our heart.

Indeed, we declared war on America and Britain out of our sincere desire to ensure Japan's self-preservation and the stabilization of East Asia, it being far from our thought either to infringe upon the sovereignty of other nations or to embark upon territorial aggrandizement.

But now the war has lasted for nearly four years. Despite the best that has been done by everyone – the gallant fighting of the militaryand naval forces, the diligence and assiduity of our servants of the state, and the devoted service of our one hundred million people – the war situation has developed not necessarily to Japan's advantage, while the general trends of the world have all turned against her interest.

Moreover, the enemy has begun to employ a new and most cruel bomb, the power of which to do damage is, indeed, incalculable, taking the toll of many innocent lives. Should we continue to fight, not only would it result in an ultimate collapse and obliteration of the Japanese nation, but also it would lead to the total extinction of human civilization.



He didn’t mention Naval blockades (10 million Japanese on the brink of starvation), or the Soviets (invasion of Manchuria killed hundreds of thousands of Japanese), he mentioned the A-Bomb.


The A-bomb saved hundreds of thousands of lives of women, children and men stuck in Japanese death camps or behind Japanese imperial lines. Get over it.

 

[Nymbus]

she's so well spoken

 

[Professor Emeritus]

what power of the US were Japanese effecting by murdering 20,000,000 Chinese ?

Very little, which is why the USA had very little response. Don't you realize you just killed your own argument?


If the US gave a shyt about atrocities against the Chinese, then they would have gone to war against Japan long before the Japanese attacked Pearl Harbor. If the US gave a shyt about atrocities against the Jews, then they would have gone to war against Germany long before the Germans invaded the rest of Europe.

Of course, if they did those things, they'd also have to dispose the King of Belgium, assassinate Churchill, declare war against their "ally" Stalin, and turn on most of their own political leaders.


America does not care enough about atrocities against civilians unless they have a power play in the region. This has been shown time and time again. We turned back Jewish refugee ships and pardoned the people who committed evil against the Chinese. The US literally did not give a shyt.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Besides the fact that the majority of our military and intelligence leaders thought the bomb was militarily unnecessary and just done as a scientific experiment and warning to Russia, this take has also been the official conclusion of multiple military analyses conducted both within and outside the American government, both before and after the bombing.




"Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey's opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945 and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war, and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated."

- Vice-chairman of U.S. Strategic Bombing Survey Paul Nitze (Nitze would later become Secretary of the Navy)




"As early as April 29, 1945 the Joint Intelligence Committee (JIC) informed the Joint Chiefs of Staff that increasing 'numbers of informed Japanese, both military and civilian, already realize the inevitability of absolute defeat...The entry of the U.S.S.R. into the war would, together with the foregoing factors, convince most Japanese at once of the inevitability of complete defeat.'"

- Joint Intelligence Committee of the United Kingdom




“First, intelligence and other advice to President Truman, in significant part based on intercepted and secretly decoded Japanese cable traffic, indicated that from at least May 1945 on, Japan wished to end the war and seemed likely to do so if assurances were given that the emperor would not be eliminated. Second, similar advice to the president suggested that the shock of Soviet entry into the war (expected in early August) would likely tip the balance, almost certainly if combined with assurances concerning the emperor. Third, Truman was advised by Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson, Assistant Secretary of War John J. McCloy, Admiral Leahy, the acting Secretary of State Joseph E. Grew, and others to let Japan know that the emperor would not be eliminated; contrary to the claims of some historians, Truman made clear that he had no serious objection to offering such assurances.”

- historians Gar Alperovitz and Kai Bird, writing in the Christian Science Monitor




"Careful scholarly treatment of the records and manuscripts opened over the past few years has greatly enhanced our understanding of why the Truman administration used atomic weapons against Japan. The consensus among scholars is that the bomb was not needed to avoid an invasion of Japan and to end the war within a relatively short time. It is clear that alternatives to the bomb existed and that Truman and his advisers knew it.... The hoary claim that the bomb prevented 500,000 American combat deaths is unsupportable."

- J. Samuel Walker, chief historian of the United States Nuclear Regulatory Commission,

 

[SuaveyBoi115]

Unit 731 was some straight horror movie shyt

I still wish I never went down this rabbit hole