Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
O I don't think cop unions are good if that's what you think I'm implying.
Jalen Rose's charter school is a flop its 1st year
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O I don't think cop unions are good if that's what you think I'm implying.
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No actually I am arguing for schools that provide kids with the best education and opportunities possible. And I don't think that there is just one way to do that. There are different approaches we can take to get to that goal. Some may involve unionization and others may not. There isn't a one size fits all answer to this question.You're literally arguing for privatization and don't realize it. Dissolution of unions is a big step in that direction. No thanks
Any argument that ultimately wants to move towards privatization and unregulated education aint one I'm interested in. It's dangerous and shouldn't even be a thing.
Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
We had that, we had lots of fully funded public schools and private schools for rich people. Then bad faith actors came in and fukked everything up and for some strange reason y'all are cool with it. You really want privatization but don't seem willing to say it out loud and give up the game. You don't spend 2-3 paragraphs saying "unions bad" because you think they're needed.
Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
The answer to the problem created by the same people pushing charter schools is simple. Get rid of charter schools, fully fund public schools, untie funding from property tax. Boom that's how you created a great foundation to fix this problem. This isn't rocket science demand more from your government.
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Wow. Thanks.
So glad you were able to solve the problems of public education in America. You are right this is a really simple problem. If we just fully fund public schools then Boom it will be all fixed and we can move on to other societal challenges. It's really not rocket science. Nice work fam
Charter schools are bad at their core because they take away funding from public schools while having a barrier to entry.
Removing the union to create flexibility, ability to hire best teachers and avoid having to deal with uninterested tenured teachers sounds great in theory. But instead of hiring the best and the brightest charter schools usually hire young, inexperienced teachers who they can underpay and overwork. And once they're burned out they either leave or get fired and new ones get hired.
Charter schools have ways to make sure they attract certain type of students and then also find ways to get rid of underperforming students.
It's for profit education, what are we even arguing about
Removing the union to create flexibility, ability to hire best teachers and avoid having to deal with uninterested tenured teachers sounds great in theory. But instead of hiring the best and the brightest charter schools usually hire young, inexperienced teachers who they can underpay and overwork. And once they're burned out they either leave or get fired and new ones get hired.
Charter schools have ways to make sure they attract certain type of students and then also find ways to get rid of underperforming students.
It's for profit education, what are we even arguing about
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Charter schools are public schools so saying they take money away from public schools is an oxymoron. By virtue of the fact that they are public they are not for profit. They are literally incorporated as nonprofit entities. These are basic facts that people still get wrong despite charters being around for 20 years.Charter schools are bad at their core because they take away funding from public schools while having a barrier to entry.
Removing the union to create flexibility, ability to hire best teachers and avoid having to deal with uninterested tenured teachers sounds great in theory. But instead of hiring the best and the brightest charter schools usually hire young, inexperienced teachers who they can underpay and overwork. And once they're burned out they either leave or get fired and new ones get hired.
Charter schools have ways to make sure they attract certain type of students and then also find ways to get rid of underperforming students.
It's for profit education, what are we even arguing about
But I realize that is not your point. Saying that money is taking away is repeating a line used by anticharter advocates. What is less biased is to say that when parents decide to send their children to nontraditional public schools, the money for those students follows them to their new school. Why should the money stay at the school where the student left? The dollars are for the students and thus when they attend a different school the state gives the money to that school.
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The infamous Oliver takedown. This focuses on bad apples who started charter schools. Those people should definitely get shytted on for misappropriating public funds but it's disingenuous to paint the whole sector with a broad brush based on the behavior of some selfish a$$holes. Trust that their are shytty people making bad decisions in every industry but somehow in this cases it means as you said that "charters are bad at their core".
Ultimately me and Dora probably aren't going to convince you all of anything. But if you are a parent faced with tough choices, that's what ultimately matters. I want parents to decide and have options at the end of the day. If a charter school isn't a good school then it should be remedied or closed. But the same should be true of a traditional public school. If it is failing then there should be consequences and honestly before charters there was little if any accountability in many places.
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Also instead of me just arguing let me acknowledge that you make a good point here. Charter school teachers do work more and are usually less experienced than traditional public school teachers. But from what I have seen, that is a big problem if all of the teachers are in years 1,2 or 3. But the research suggests that after a point there is not much added benefit of additional experience in terms of the impact on student achievement. A teacher with 6 years of experience can master the skill and perform just as well as a teacher with 25 years of experience. The value of increased experience diminishes over time.Charter schools are bad at their core because they take away funding from public schools while having a barrier to entry.
Removing the union to create flexibility, ability to hire best teachers and avoid having to deal with uninterested tenured teachers sounds great in theory. But instead of hiring the best and the brightest charter schools usually hire young, inexperienced teachers who they can underpay and overwork. And once they're burned out they either leave or get fired and new ones get hired.
Charter schools have ways to make sure they attract certain type of students and then also find ways to get rid of underperforming students.
It's for profit education, what are we even arguing about
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
I’m glad it’s that simple. Clearly the folks who have been fighting this fight for decades while nothing changes are doing it wrong…apparently they need to just sprinkle some more “demanding” into their demands. Got it
Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
I’m sorry you and @arXiv sound exactly like a couple of republican politicians playing the hide the ball about wanting to privatize all education. You’re both obviously very intelligent people, but I just don’t feel like having an argument with people who clearly drank the kool-aid of the same people who are responsible for this problem in the first place. I’m not even sure how that doesn’t raise red flags for y’all, but whatever.
Word for word y’all are parroting their platform here.
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
exactly neither of us said this nor aligned to this view. I’m done, like @arXiv said, y’all just wanna have broad strokes conversations based or partisan talking points and not nuanced conversation based on reality.
Godless Socialist CEO
Superstar
What partisan talking point am I quoting? There aren’t any democrats saying the things me and other posters in here are. Hell quite a few democrats are also for charter schools. Our opinion is mostly seen as the minority. You guys sound exactly like the republicans who push this stuff and constantly defund public education even down to the villanization of unions.
You can’t accuse someone else of being “partisan” when I could literally replace you with Ron Desantis and there would be zero difference in the rhetoric. You want to disagree with me that’s cool, but you can’t call our opinions “partisan” when you may as well be reading note cards provided to you by ur states GOP
dora_da_destroyer
Master Baker
Simply writing my fact based replies off as Republican talking points is trying to make this some partisan conversation. I’ve not engaged in the conversations about education from the platform of political parties - whom I only pay attention to during national elections, neither of whom talk about education often other than performative “educate the youth” platitudes, it’s a local issue, all of my observations are based on the OUSD, people who are parents, talking with friends, my brother and aunt who are teachers, etc. not agreeing with our take that all charters aren’t bad doesnt equivocate Republican views. But that’s the easy way out.
in fact, for those of y’all saying all charters are bad - I’m happy to be linked to some studies that show all charters fail, all are damaging students and districts, and are all for profit or corrupt grifters…it’s a zero sum for y’all so please show me some objective studies or articles that reveal every charter school to be a plague and I’ll be happy to learn something
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