I've changed my mind on universal healthcare in the US. I'm against it.

[Broke Wave]

Allot money to the states and let them craft their own systems
If they choose single payer, so be it.

That’s how it works now in America not how it works in Canada at all

 

[mastermind]

I give a grace period to people that identify as libertarians until their mid 20's. If they haven't grown out of the phase by then, I assume they're selfish at best, or sociopathic at worst.

yup

full functional, learned adults do not follow libertarianism unless they are a sociopath like Charles Koch.

Libertarian policy is what a stingy adolescent would do.

 

[DEAD7]

That’s how it works now in America not how it works in Canada at all

I thought the federal govt. helped shoulder the cost of the province healthcare systems in Canada via block grants, with private healthcare still being an option Explain how it works?

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Allot money to the states and let them craft their own systems
If they choose single payer, so be it.

Why do ya’ll fetishize the states so much?

So people should just be fukked if they have the bad luck of being born into the wrong state? "Sorry that you're at the bottom rung of society...but if you don't like being poor in Mississippi you can just save up and move states."

There are always going to be people at the bottom of any given society. I don't like that Libertarianism has no problem with them living in squalor, and doesn't at least care about setting up systems that would allow them to live with some dignity.

And I don't get why it's bad for the federal government to have a massive amount of power, but fine for massive corporations to have massive power. These same corporations that get massive amount of wellfare BTW.

I've seen libertarians unironically argue against Civil Rights Act of 1964 (and even the 13th Amendment) because state's should have their own systems.

 

[New Jeruzalem Journalist]

Our current government is dysfunctional but so is the private sector. It's not like Blue Cross Blue Shield, Humana, and all these other companies are doing a good job.

Medicare is one of the most popular social programs we have. Its approval rating is stupidly high. People with Medicare love it, by and large.

It's crazy to me to see so many people arguing against their own self interest. If our government is dysfunctional, then we work to make it better. That's not a good reason to not implement a policy that would substantially improve the lives of the people in our society.

Yep. Sounds like he was essentially saying there's no point in working towards improving government programs or implementing new ones because the government isn't working optimally so best to just let it be as is and allow things to devolve even further.

 

[storyteller]

Do yall remember all the hype from Republicans after Obamacare passed? They spent years claiming to really want to repeal that shyt. Then Trump won, they had a super majority, and it turned out that they didn't have any alternative or ability to repeal it without getting their asses handed to them electorally because a lot of it turned out to be fairly popular and particularly the Medicare expansion.

...why do you think expanding Medicare even further wouldn't be tougher to repeal rather than easier? And why would that perform worse than private insurances which suck and survey worse than Medicare pretty much since its inception? Let's try to make this discussion a bit more specific than "boo, big government bad" and actually consider the current circumstances and recent history of healthcare legislation.

 

[DEAD7]

Why do ya’ll fetishize the states so much?
So people should just be fukked if they have the bad luck of being born into the wrong state? "Sorry that you're at the bottom rung of society...but if you don't like being poor in Mississippi you can just save up and move states."

In my opinion...
1. The people affected have much more control, and better mechanism with which to hold local politicians accountable at the state level.
2. Some states having really really great care and a few having shytty care is better than everyone having mediocre care.
3. The bad systems and ideas will be allowed to die on their own merits rather than continuously romanticized.

As a general rule i believe all decisions to be made as close to the people directly affected as possible.

So people should just be fukked if they have the bad luck of being born into the wrong state?

i dont believe in painless progress
#sociopathconfirmed

 

[TheDarceKnight]

Yep. Sounds like he was essentially saying there's no point in working towards improving government programs or implementing new ones because the government isn't working optimally so best to just let it be as is and allow things to devolve even further.

Exactly. It's just doomer black pill shyt.

 

[Broke Wave]

I thought the federal govt. helped shoulder the cost of the province healthcare systems in Canada via block grants, with private healthcare still being an option Explain how it works?

The health act requires all provinces to give healthcare to all citizens free of charge… I don’t know how you’d jive with that.

 

[TM101]

I still support universal healthcare because even if it fails, it will help a lot of people in time period it exists.
What I think the government is too incompetent to handle is nuclear energy/infrastructure.
Imagine the government refusing to upkeep the equipment because they cant "afford" it.

 

[Dr. Acula]

I still support universal healthcare because even if it fails, it will help a lot of people in time period it exists.
What I think the government is too incompetent to handle is nuclear energy/infrastructure.
Imagine the government refusing to upkeep the equipment because they cant "afford" it.

The government will tax me 24 percent but all the money they take out my paycheck they can't fix some damn 100 yo bridges.

Just to answer some of the replies to me, I said I'm for it and I even clarified if we had a more competent government, I'd be more supportive. But again, taxes will need to be raised to support it and that would be fine. But regardless of partisan labels, I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to say, Democrat or republican, left or right, "Well if you're going to tax me to provide a common service can I at least have the EXPECTATION, AT LEAST, that you don't make it so dysfunctional and broken using the money I provided?".

I guess it leads to a better question in how do you fix a broken system where you don't feel like you're being ruled by a bunch of corrupt gritting political elites who don't give a shyt about average people. We can vote but there is a sizeable amount of the population that will vote for a woman with literal alzheimer's like feinstrein and keep them in office for 50 damn years regardless of their performance and since they have lifetime job security that have no incentive to do anything that displeases those who fund them to be in office and these individuals have no interest in seeing social programs expanded or working.

 

[TheDarceKnight]

The government will tax me 24 percent but all the money they take out my paycheck they can't fix some damn 100 yo bridges.

Just to answer some of the replies to me, I said I'm for it and I even clarified if we had a more competent government, I'd be more supportive. But again, taxes will need to be raised to support it and that would be fine. But regardless of partisan labels, I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to say, Democrat or republican, left or right, "Well if you're going to tax me to provide a common service can I at least have the EXPECTATION, AT LEAST, that you don't make it so dysfunctional and broken using the money I provided?".

I guess it leads to a better question in how do you fix a broken system where you don't feel like you're being ruled by a bunch of corrupt gritting political elites who don't give a shyt about average people. We can vote but there is a sizeable amount of the population that will vote for a woman with literal alzheimer's like feinstrein and keep them in office for 50 damn years regardless of their performance and since they have lifetime job security that have no incentive to do anything that displeases those who fund them to be in office and these individuals have no interest in seeing social programs expanded or working.

Taxes might be raises but multiple studies have shown it would save money overall. Also, I think it's interesting that no one ever asks how we can pay for unlimited war, missiles, bombs, tanks, jet planes, etc.

For some reason we just accept that we'll find a way to use our tax dollars for that. But when it comes to health care, everyone asks how we can afford it.

 

[Pressure]

Taxes might be raises but multiple studies have shown it would save money overall. Also, I think it's interesting that no one ever asks how we can pay for unlimited war, missiles, bombs, tanks, jet planes, etc.

For some reason we just accept that we'll find a way to use our tax dollars for that. But when it comes to health care, everyone asks how we can afford it.

They don't ask to raise our taxes to fund war.

 

[rantanamo]

So current insurance plans are trash and have been trash for most despite taking your money monthly for decades, yet we scared of the feds cutting them out? Slave mentality.

 

[mastermind]

The government will tax me 24 percent but all the money they take out my paycheck they can't fix some damn 100 yo bridges.

Just to answer some of the replies to me, I said I'm for it and I even clarified if we had a more competent government, I'd be more supportive. But again, taxes will need to be raised to support it and that would be fine. But regardless of partisan labels, I don't think it's unreasonable for anyone to say, Democrat or republican, left or right, "Well if you're going to tax me to provide a common service can I at least have the EXPECTATION, AT LEAST, that you don't make it so dysfunctional and broken using the money I provided?".

I guess it leads to a better question in how do you fix a broken system where you don't feel like you're being ruled by a bunch of corrupt gritting political elites who don't give a shyt about average people. We can vote but there is a sizeable amount of the population that will vote for a woman with literal alzheimer's like feinstrein and keep them in office for 50 damn years regardless of their performance and since they have lifetime job security that have no incentive to do anything that displeases those who fund them to be in office and these individuals have no interest in seeing social programs expanded or working.

You never supported universal healthcare