It Looks Like the MVP Outcome is all but Officially Decided

[Gil Scott-Heroin]

BREEN/JVG
WERE SAYING THE SAME shyt
ON EVERY PHILLY NATIONAL BROADCAST

DRILLING IT OVER & OVER

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I gotta give you props for even replying.

 

[threattonature]

for me, its not worth having a conversation that attempts to qualify Jokic's play as 'hero ball' and criticize him for not adhering to 'team play'

so what is this showing? it shows that Jokic leads the league in touches per game

now look at the time of possession, avg seconds per touch & avg dribble per touch relative to the other leaders in touches per game

Jokic is getting the ball and is immediately making decisions with the ball (whether passing/scoring) at INSANE efficiency from the Center position

to qualify his play style as 'HERO BALL' doesnt need anymore discussion tells me you either dont watch the Nuggets play, or you aren't comprehending what hes doing on the court

Great post. I have a pure curiosity question. Does that stat factor in time spent bringing the ball up the court. Cause that list contains a bunch of PGs outside of Jokic for the most part which could skew the numbers. That or even the players dribbling the ball waiting on a play to be run which will inflate their seconds per touch stat.

 

[Tony D'Amato]

Mvp gonna lose in the 1st rnd

 

[Brozay]

Great post. I have a pure curiosity question. Does that stat factor in time spent bringing the ball up the court. Cause that list contains a bunch of PGs outside of Jokic for the most part which could skew the numbers. That or even the players dribbling the ball waiting on a play to be run which will inflate their seconds per touch stat.

great question - it discounts situations where a player is bringing the ball up, etc - it tracks these metrics only when a player is in 'attack' position

you might enjoy this: NBA Game Charting: Touches and Dribbles from 82games.com

 

[threattonature]

great question - it discounts situations where a player is bringing the ball up, etc - it tracks these metrics only when a player is in 'attack' position

you might enjoy this: NBA Game Charting: Touches and Dribbles from 82games.com

Thanks. It just stood out to me that really only Sabonis had numbers close to as low as Jokic so I was curious. That’s one thing I appreciate about Jokic’s game is that he is quick to attack or move the ball and keep the offense flowing.

 

[No1]

well I wasn't the one to bring other MVP races into this convo, I dont really see the value in comparing this to other races. I don't feel strongly about Nash's 2nd MVP, this response assumes I am backing Nash heavy?

My entire point here was that Wade's 2009 & Jokic's 2022 MVP candidacies are not apples to apples

You used another year as a comparison. I’m not assuming anything. I showed you a year where the exact sort of argument you’re proposing happened and that isn’t what occurred. Jokic is deserving of MVP according to how I would vote - the way I would vote any award of this nature - the best player that season. That hasn’t been what has occurred historically and if you’re changing the standard from year to year then an award is meaningless because no one knows what it stands for. There has to be a consistent way that value is being measured. Every other sport manages to do it for the most part, why is the NBA different? Like no one complains about NFL MVP or MLB MVPs because we know exactly what we are looking at. The fact thst both sides are making completely different sorts of argument is exactly the problem. When people were arguing Brady versus Rodgers this year it was largely a conventional argument. Everyone was arguing the same thing and just trying to undercut or maximize different and favorable components. There is no accepted way to gauge NBA MVP so no one here is right or wrong.

Devin Booker had the same stats that guys like Steph and Kobe had when they won MVP and those years there were people who had better all around numbers. It didn’t matter. Every previous years matters because we need to have a standard and know what we are talking about. If Jokic wins this year then that means MVP went to the best player and not best player on the best team or 2nd best team which was the criteria from 2005 through Steph’s MVP years. Westbrook was an outlier who broke the mold. It’s looked on poorly in hindsight. People aren’t crazy for arguing based on a standard they were told to adhere to for over a decade. You guys keep talking about his play when his play is secondary to his seeding in their eyes. If Jokic was the 2 or 3 seed there would be no argument.

 

[ISO]

Based on?

Having the best stats and leading his team to more victories than Embiid and Giannis with a worse team.

 

[ISO]

We’ve had top 25 all time players put up all time great seasons at their positions and still get snubbed because the seeding of their teams didn’t fit the criteria for MVP. See 2009 Wade.

Wade wasn’t snubbed, LeBron had the better season.

 

[Brozay]

You used another year as a comparison. I’m not assuming anything. I showed you a year where the exact sort of argument you’re proposing happened and that isn’t what occurred. Jokic is deserving of MVP according to how I would vote - the way I would vote any award of this nature - the best player that season. That hasn’t been what has occurred historically and if you’re changing the standard from year to year then an award is meaningless because no one knows what it stands for. There has to be a consistent way that value is being measured. Every other sport manages to do it for the most part, why is the NBA different? Like no one complains about NFL MVP or MLB MVPs because we know exactly what we are looking at. The fact thst both sides are making completely different sorts of argument is exactly the problem. When people were arguing Brady versus Rodgers this year it was largely a conventional argument. Everyone was arguing the same thing and just trying to undercut or maximize different and favorable components. There is no accepted way to gauge NBA MVP so no one here is right or wrong.

Devin Booker had the same stats that guys like Steph and Kobe had when they won MVP and those years there were people who had better all around numbers. It didn’t matter. Every previous years matters because we need to have a standard and know what we are talking about. If Jokic wins this year then that means MVP went to the best player and not best player on the best team or 2nd best team which was the criteria from 2005 through Steph’s MVP years. Westbrook was an outlier who broke the mold. It’s looked on poorly in hindsight. People aren’t crazy for arguing based on a standard they were told to adhere to for over a decade. You guys keep talking about his play when his play is secondary to his seeding in their eyes. If Jokic was the 2 or 3 seed there would be no argument.

I didnt offer up the 2008-09 MVP race as a comparison, someone else did and I replied back saying it made no sense to compare the two MVP races (because they are vastly different IMO)

I agree some consistent criteria would help this process

I dont believe the driving factor for Jokic being named MVP is due to him keeping his injured/depleted team afloat and close to 50 wins. I believe the driving factor is his overwhelming edge in advanced stats, which are being valued more than ever in 2022 (in all sports), especially by the people who vote on these awards

 

[ISO]

If Jokic gets that MVP it will be a DISGRACE to professional basketball.

U don’t watch basketball

 

[No1]

I didnt offer up the 2008-09 MVP race as a comparison, someone else did and I replied back saying it made no sense to compare the two MVP races (because they are vastly different IMO)

I agree some consistent criteria would help this process

I dont believe the driving factor for Jokic being named MVP is due to him keeping his injured/depleted team afloat and close to 50 wins. I believe the driving factor is his overwhelming edge in advanced stats, which are being valued more than ever in 2022 (in all sports), especially by the people who vote on these awards

I don’t think most writers understand advanced stats. I get that Zach Lowe and others are prevalent but I think it’s moreso his counting stats.

 

[CHICAGO]

I didnt offer up the 2008-09 MVP race as a comparison, someone else did and I replied back saying it made no sense to compare the two MVP races (because they are vastly different IMO)

I agree some consistent criteria would help this process

I dont believe the driving factor for Jokic being named MVP is due to him keeping his injured/depleted team afloat and close to 50 wins. I believe the driving factor is his overwhelming edge in advanced stats, which are being valued more than ever in 2022 (in all sports), especially by the people who vote on these awards

THE VAST MAJORITY
OF BASKETBALL MEDIA
GIVES 2 shytS ABOUT ADVANCED STATS
AND ARE TYPICALLY NARRATIVE
BASED.



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[Jplaya2023]

I'm still waiting for someone to answer why Luka isn't in the MVP conversation when he has a better record than both Embiid and Giannis.

Because he was came into the season out of shape and its held against him

 

[Walt]

Devin Booker had the same stats that guys like Steph

 

[Mr. Jack Napier]

Lead the league in scoring, get your team to 50+ wins and still lose out on being MVP, smh

 

[Don Homer]

Back to back MVP with (soon to be) back to back 1st Rd exits. Disgusting

Edit: scratch that. 2nd Rd and now 1st Rd exit. So 'scust instead

Hey man, there’s a chance Embiid doesn’t make it out r1