It Looks Like the MVP Outcome is all but Officially Decided

CHICAGO

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I feel like harden going to philly hurt whatever chances embiid had on some media bias shyt…they probably view him and harden as a superstar pairing as opposed to viewing harden as “broken” even if it’s true

THEY WANTED TO GIVE IT
TO JOKIC ALL ALONG
WHILE EMBIID WAS THE FRONT RUNNER
BUT WOULD HAVE LOOKED
CRAZY AT THE TIME
SO THEY NEEDED THE HARDEN TRADE

TO JUSTIFY IT UNDER THE GUISE
OF JOKER HAVING LESS HELP
THAN EMBIID.

:devil:
:evil:
 
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I'm still waiting for someone to answer why Luka isn't in the MVP conversation when he has a better record than both Embiid and Giannis.

:mjpls:
 

IIVI

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But then why are you not adding Bron into the equation as well?

How does him winning MVP in 2009 and 2010 any different, all because he ended up winning a ring in 2012? Was that not also a bad look for Bron too? And to that point, did Bron really need to win a ring to validate seasons in which he was awarded MVP for his regular season performance?

The original post I replied to:
Jokic is good but he not winning no more MVPs after this until he win a title
Media used the same logic for Gianis so this has to be consistent

Yes, it was a bad look for LeBron in 2009 and 2010 especially because Kobe won the titles and Finals MVP trophies those years.

People were destroying him for that. shyt, they even hyped up the Finals match-up in commercials and dude fell short.

Now Bron actually did end up winning one, then multiple so he can't be scrutinized there anymore.

Giannis, the same. Dude did it while staying in Milwaukee so that's more impressive.

Jokic got to now do the same.
 
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rbksNgirbauds

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Answer me this:

How many back-to-back MVP winners in their second season ending up having expectations of winning in the playoffs when they were without their #2 and #3 options?

You're the homie, but you're saying a whole lot without saying a whole lot: dressing up semantics of some trivial label that has absolutely nothing to do with anything, all because you're desperately trying to find a reason to subtract away from Jokic's MVP campaign, knowing damn well what you're saying doesn't make one bit of sense, but you're continuing to dig that hole as it's too late to walk that shyt back now. Players have been awarded MVP in the past for "hero ball" because they didn't have the right balance of help. The vast majority of Bron's MVPs were awarded because of hero ball; Rose won an MVP because of hero ball; Westbrook won an MVP because of hero ball; Steph won an MVP because of hero ball; the majority of MJ's MVPs were awarded because of hero ball; the majority of Cap's MVPs were awarded because of hero ball.

In fact, the precedent has been set that most MVPs have been awarded on the basis of hero ball, which only makes sense, because that is the very nature of the award. It's an individual award based upon ONE player's value/performance. Please tell me, how many times has the MVP been awarded to a player because of "team play"? I can guarantee it won't be as many times as a player was awarded it for hero ball.

I don't think anybody should've won it over Jokic, because obviously, he had the strongest narrative and was deserving. If somebody else was awarded MVP last season, and you asked me should Jokic be awarded it over them, I'd be saying the same thing. To me, MVP is meaningless, and only distracts us from discussing what really matters and appreciating players as they are. Take this thread as example - instead of discussing how great Jokic's season has been, it's devolved into a discussion of whatever the fukk this is. Now, that's not to say Steph wasn't deserving of winning MVP, but I can't say he should have won it over Jokic. Same applies to this season, Giannis and Embiid are both deserving, but if Jokic wins, neither of them should have won it instead, again, just as if Embiid or Giannis end up winning it, I'm not going to say Jokic should have won it either.

If a deserving player wins MVP - that's all that matters, in this context. After all, only one player can win it, and there's typically multiple players who are deserving.

I'll answer this question by reiterating:

How many back-to-back MVP winners in their second season ending up having expectations of winning in the playoffs when they were without their #2 and #3 options....

And I'll also throw it back to you - tell me what you think Jokic should improve on to where he could put his team in a better position of winning where he could drag this team to a deeper playoff run, and tell me which players currently could do that? Also, why is the onus on Jokic to improve the support cast and not the front office? Why are you penalizing him because he's not surrounded by better talent? How's he supposed to "mesh" his talent with better players if he's not being surrounded by better players?
I'll respond to this when I get up, I work a graveyard shift. If not, the playoffs don't start til this weekend. So it's plenty of time to fill the time
 

Brozay

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You mean like when said that Steve Nash was the MVP because he got his team to the 2 seed without Amare but Chauncey Billups won 10 more games and averages the same amount of points and one else assist?

Chauncey even used the framing used to give Nash the MVP the year before. Where you’re making a mistake is trying to defend historical decisions instead of just saying fukk what they did in the past - this is what it should be based on. That’s a winning argument, trying to justify the past only allows the arguments people are making about inconsistency to thrive.
well I wasn't the one to bring other MVP races into this convo, I dont really see the value in comparing this to other races. I don't feel strongly about Nash's 2nd MVP, this response assumes I am backing Nash heavy?

My entire point here was that Wade's 2009 & Jokic's 2022 MVP candidacies are not apples to apples
 

L&HH

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I think there’s two possible solutions. The league may need to just have an eastern and western mvp. Or allow co-mvps on certain years. I think Embiid and Jokic should be co-mvp
 

Piff Perkins

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Jokic is damn near one of the best offensive centers in NBA history and nikkas saying he don’t deserve it :gucci:
It’s wild and weird as fukk. When you consider the level he’s playing at, the stats, the fact that the Nuggets have been injured all year yet won 50 plus games…he’s clearly the MVP.
 
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WE SPEAKING FACTS NOW SMILIES.

THE MEDIA RAN WITH THIS
NARRATIVE AS SOON AS
THE TRADE HAPPENED.

Will James Harden Help Or Hurt Joel Embiid's NBA MVP Chances?
:devil:
:evil:
As if posting one person's thoughts about the MVP and making it out to be reflective of the media as a whole wasn't bad enough, but the author of that article you posted - Bryan Toporek, actually covers the 76ers, and has been campaigning for Embiid to win MVP for most of the season.

Look at these tweets:





You literally picked the worst possible example to illustrate your point. You played yourself, and I'm genuinely interested to see how you're going to spin this. Or if you are even going to bother replying, at all.

:lolbron:
 

Walt

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I honestly think people are mad because a white player is going to win instead of Joel which is just as good

I'm speaking strictly on The Coli

Some people, for sure. For others it's just about wanting their favorite player of the group to win. For others it's probably about style of play. It's just amazing to watch people argue against certain stats as arbitrary by countering with their own slate of arbitrary stats. Or arguing against narrative with their own counter-narratives. Or basing their warped, selective logic for MVP criteria on the MVPs their favorite players didn't win in the past. It's transparent and silly but most of all hilarious.
 

CHICAGO

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As if posting one person's thoughts about the MVP and making it out to be reflective of the media as a whole wasn't bad enough, but the author of that article you posted - Bryan Toporek, actually covers the 76ers, and has been campaigning for Embiid to win MVP for most of the season.

Look at these tweets:





You literally picked the worst possible example to illustrate your point. You played yourself, and I'm genuinely interested to see how you're going to spin this. Or if you are even going to bother replying, at all.

:lolbron:

BREEN/JVG
WERE
SAYING THE SAME shyt
ON EVERY PHILLY NATIONAL BROADCAST

DRILLING IT OVER & OVER
:devil:
:evil:
 

T.he I.nformant

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Wherever nikkas need to be told on
We’ve seen VERY similar season scenarios where X player sets historic regular szn records while carrying a shabby supporting cast to 45+ wins. They still got passed over for MVP. Again, at what point does the novelty wear off? What’s the rule? If Jokic has a statistical performance next year and leads Denver to a 4th seed with Murray, than what argument could be made for him not getting the 3-peat? Do we just raise the standard as he goes?
If he repeats or improves upon his performance from this past couple of seasons and his team is winning games he has to be in the convo. I don’t think that guarantees he is the MVP. There are a lot of different factors that are weighed so you have to see how the season plays out and how guys perform. I think there are a handful of guys from this year who have legitimately been in the convo. I wouldn’t be mad at all if Jokic, Embiid, or Giannis won. Hell, I wouldn’t be mad if Luka, Book, or Tatum won either although I think that would be a bit of a shocker. You are not going to get me to say that MVP voting from year to year is consistent but you’re definitely not going to get me to try to say x player is not deserving when it’s clear they are.
 
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