Is this true that the Buddha was black?

The Real

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Well I'm not speculating because I'm not an anthropologist like you. You can research everything I mentioned to see what it "seems" like.

Besides, I'm not saying that it was only African influence or only African religions. I'm just saying that the things I mentioned are true.

There are better sources but right from wiki it states The Buddha's community does not seem to have had a caste system. So what do you call well documented? Every single thing I mentioned is well documented.. the things you are saying are based on varying oral traditional mythological accounts which is crazy and strange to me being that your an atheist.


EDIT: and don't get it confused. I could chose to argue your side better than you are doing... but obviously I'm going to chose the side that people are ignorant of. I'm not going to act like Shramana ideas from Africa didn't combine with Vedic ideas, but let not get confused on the early African inhabitants and ideas of Ancient India.
But whatever... most of the world thinks like you so I guess it's pointless to state facts now.

Breh, the caste system is a feudal form of organization. It's ludicrous to say that the community didn't have a caste system when it had a ruling family, Brahmins (who are explicitly mentioned at several points in all documented stories of the Buddha, in fact, one supposedly prophecizes his birth) slaves (also mentioned in the histories,) and so on.

And I'm not sure which of your ideas are well-documented yet. You've cited a lot of speculative theories, but that's it so far. Even the Sramana (another Sanskrit, Indo-European word) stuff is totally speculative. There's no evidence linking Dravidian civilization to Africa whatsoever- culturally, archaeologically, or otherwise, and the Dravidian languages are isolates- they have no connection to any other languages on the planet. "Dravidian" people don't even look Black. They have straight hair and most of them don't have features similar to Black folk. The "Black" people in India were proto-Australasians, but those were separate from the Dravidians. Look at the Black populations of India today- they don't speak Dravidian languages, but their own, Australasian languages.
 

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Breh, the caste system is a feudal form of organization. It's ludicrous to say that the community didn't have a caste system when it had a ruling family, Brahmins (who are explicitly mentioned at several points in all documented stories of the Buddha, in fact, one supposedly prophecizes his birth) slaves (also mentioned in the histories,) and so on.

And I'm not sure which of your ideas are well-documented yet. You've cited a lot of speculative theories, but that's it so far. Even the Sramana (another Sanskrit, Indo-European word) stuff is totally speculative. There's no evidence linking Dravidian civilization to Africa whatsoever- culturally, archaeologically, or otherwise, and the Dravidian languages are isolates- they have no connection to any other languages on the planet. "Dravidian" people don't even look Black. They have straight hair and most of them don't have features similar to Black folk. The "Black" people in India were proto-Australasians, but those were separate from the Dravidians. Look at the Black populations of India today- they don't speak Dravidian languages, but their own, Australasian languages.
:snoop:
I'm just not understanding why I would need to go step by step by step with you.


So everything your stating is based off Indo-Aryan migration theories and fairytales about Buddha? I get that, but you are ignorant on the history.

1They speak different languages today due to different ruling classes and conflicts.. not because the black people don't speak the same language today so they weren't from black cultures back then. I don't speak the same language as my ancestors either.
2The Dravidians today are like most Indians.. they look like indians dark and light... I was speaking of ancient Dravidians because we are speaking of ancient times... and you can deny they were black but then you would be clearly exposing yourself. Also, we should not that the original inhabitants of the subcontinent were Africans who remained black until the invasions. And I use the D just to give a name to the people.
3It is likely that haplogroup M was brought to Asia from East Africa along the southern route by earliest migration wave 60,000 years ago. Despite the variations found within India, these populations stem from a limited number of founder lineages. These lineages were most likely introduced to the Indian subcontinent during the Middle Palaeolithic, before the peopling of Europe and perhaps the Old World in general.
4How exactly isn't this documented???
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...3BA5D71.d01t04
5. LOL, so now str8 hair means not black? My ex has red hair, Caucasian features and shes my complexion, every male in her family has blue or green eyes... They are all black. I don't have time to really explain all that to you so I will get back on subject.
6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_India
One narrative, describes Negritos, similar to the Andamanese adivasis of today, as the first identifiable human population to colonize India, likely 30-65 thousand years before present -60% of all modern Indians share the mtDNA haplogroup M, which is universal among Andamanese islander adivasis and might be a genetic legacy of the postulated first Indians
Some anthropologists theorize that the original Negrito settlers of India were displaced by invading Austroasiatic-speaking Australoid people (who largely shared skin pigmentation and physiognomy with the Negritos, but had straight rather than kinky hair)
, "The supposed Aryan invasion of India 3,000–4,000 years before present therefore did not make a major splash in the Indian gene pool. This is especially counter-indicated by the presence of equal, though very low, frequencies of the western Eurasian mtDNA types in both southern and northern India. Thus, the ‘caucasoid’ features of south Asians may best be considered ‘pre-caucasoid’— that is, part of a diverse north or north east African gene pool that yielded separate origins for western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago."


About the caste system..... that is just one of about 100 things you all have stated incorrect about The Buddah.. It's kinda disrespectful. You talking this feudal system talk when clearly those sources are from the oral tradition. Do you know what an oligarchy is? I know what it's not... its not a endogamy type of system like the caste system and it's actually what The Buddha lived in. He lived in a sub continent controlled by the caste system and Hinduism but that wasn't his personal community or reality. He condemned it, but he wasn't initially a part of it. Plus there is a difference in bring raised in a royal family and being a part of the Caste system.. they had small cities in Ancient india that didn't have the Hindu system.


fyi http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negrito
And history, common sense and archeology link the Drav.. with Africa. I call the Ancient Africans who inhabited the region Dravidian- my term may be incorrect but the idea is right. We can read the aryan languages in the west, we can't read Indus script or anything related that came before it. History is lost or manipulated.. but we do have artifacts. Theories made by etymologist from Europe are not inline with the truth, yet somehow you are a proponent of every single one of them. But anyway I'm still forming my view on this.. but at least some of what I say is based in fact unlike you all.. http://www.dnaindia.com/india/1623744/report-new-research-debunks-aryan-invasion-theory
 

The Real

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So everything your stating is based off Indo-Aryan migration theories and fairytales about Buddha? I get that, but you are ignorant on the history.

Aryan migration "theory" is a genetic fact. You're confusing the migration with the "aryan invasion theory." They're not the same. The latter is a pseudoscientific, partially-Eurocentric lie, but the former explains a real phenomenon. The people who wrote the Vedas were not originally from India, and their culture was from the same substrate as those of the Vikings, Celts, Greeks, and Persians. They were the same people who created the caste system.

1They speak different languages today due to different ruling classes and conflicts.. not because the black people don't speak the same language today so they weren't from black cultures back then. I don't speak the same language as my ancestors either.

So how come none of the Black people speak dravidian languages today, and the people who do speak them are not Black? Sorry, but your theory simply doesn't square with reality here. For your theory to be true, at least some of the Black people should be speaking dravidian languages.

2The Dravidians today are like most Indians.. they look like indians dark and light... I was speaking of ancient Dravidians because we are speaking of ancient times... and you can deny they were black but then you would be clearly exposing yourself.

More speculation. We have no idea what race the dravidians were. You want them to be Black so badly that you're allowing yourself to speculate wildly.

Also, we should not that the original inhabitants of the subcontinent were Africans who remained black until the invasions. And I use the D just to give a name to the people.

Yes, they were, but they were not the dravidians. The "Negritos" migrated long before any dravidian civilization existed.

3It is likely that haplogroup M was brought to Asia from East Africa along the southern route by earliest migration wave 60,000 years ago. Despite the variations found within India, these populations stem from a limited number of founder lineages. These lineages were most likely introduced to the Indian subcontinent during the Middle Palaeolithic, before the peopling of Europe and perhaps the Old World in general.
4How exactly isn't this documented???
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...3BA5D71.d01t04

Again, this is from 60,000 years ago. The dravidians were the result of much later migrations, which is one of the few things we do know about them.

5. LOL, so now str8 hair means not black? My ex has red hair, Caucasian features and shes my complexion, every male in her family has blue or green eyes... They are all black. I don't have time to really explain all that to you so I will get back on subject.

I have no idea what you're getting at here. I think you're mixing social and anthropological definitions of race here.

6. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_India
One narrative, describes Negritos, similar to the Andamanese adivasis of today, as the first identifiable human population to colonize India, likely 30-65 thousand years before present -60% of all modern Indians share the mtDNA haplogroup M, which is universal among Andamanese islander adivasis and might be a genetic legacy of the postulated first Indians
Some anthropologists theorize that the original Negrito settlers of India were displaced by invading Austroasiatic-speaking Australoid people (who largely shared skin pigmentation and physiognomy with the Negritos, but had straight rather than kinky hair)

See what I already said on this matter.

, "The supposed Aryan invasion of India 3,000–4,000 years before present therefore did not make a major splash in the Indian gene pool. This is especially counter-indicated by the presence of equal, though very low, frequencies of the western Eurasian mtDNA types in both southern and northern India. Thus, the ‘caucasoid’ features of south Asians may best be considered ‘pre-caucasoid’— that is, part of a diverse north or north east African gene pool that yielded separate origins for western Eurasian and southern Asian populations over 50,000 years ago."

There was no Aryan invasion. There was a migration, in several waves, of Indo-European speakers who brought the Vedic culture to India, where it merged with already-existing cultures. The idea that western Eurasian mtDNA is "very low" in India isn't exactly true. It's everywhere in the subcontinent, and strongest in the Northwest, which is the direction they migrated from.

About the caste system..... that is just one of about 100 things you all have stated incorrect about The Buddah.. It's kinda disrespectful. You talking this feudal system talk when clearly those sources are from the oral tradition. Do you know what an oligarchy is? I know what it's not... its not a endogamy type of system like the caste system and it's actually what The Buddha lived in. He lived in a sub continent controlled by the caste system and Hinduism but that wasn't his personal community or reality. He condemned it, but he wasn't initially a part of it. Plus there is a difference in bring raised in a royal family and being a part of the Caste system.. they had small cities in Ancient india that didn't have the Hindu system.

The feudal system talk is from the same citation your claim is from. Also, the Buddha was clearly born into a Hindu society. That much is even confirmed by your own source. You're confusing the social orderof caste with political order. And how can his society have been an oligarchy if there was a royal family ruled by a single clan, which was the one he was born into?

And history, common sense and archeology link the Drav.. with Africa. I call the Ancient Africans who inhabited the region Dravidian- my term may be incorrect but the idea is right. We can read the aryan languages in the west, we can't read Indus script or anything related that came before it. History is lost or manipulated.. but we do have artifacts. Theories made by etymologist from Europe are not inline with the truth, yet somehow you are a proponent of every single one of them. But anyway I'm still forming my view on this.. but at least some of what I say is based in fact unlike you all.. http://www.dnaindia.com/india/1623744/report-new-research-debunks-aryan-invasion-theory

Nah, there is absolutely no archaeology that links the dravidians to Africa. We have next to no info on these people, as you yourself admit, so "common sense" is not an indicator, either. That's just your wishful thinking. Which are these artifacts that bear African influences or similarities?

And please stop posting links to criticisms of the Aryan invasion theory. That's not what you're arguing against. No one believes it anymore, though I should add that those sources are biased as well- the anti-Aryan invasion theories come from Ambedkar and the anti-caste movement, who also used wishful thinking to form their theories. They claim that the Vedas are purely Indian, for example, which is obviously not true, and that Indo-European culture never came from outside India, which is also obviously not true.
 

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Breh, the caste system is a feudal form of organization. It's ludicrous to say that the community didn't have a caste system when it had a ruling family, Brahmins (who are explicitly mentioned at several points in all documented stories of the Buddha, in fact, one supposedly prophecizes his birth) slaves (also mentioned in the histories,) and so on.

And I'm not sure which of your ideas are well-documented yet. You've cited a lot of speculative theories, but that's it so far. Even the Sramana (another Sanskrit, Indo-European word) stuff is totally speculative. There's no evidence linking Dravidian civilization to Africa whatsoever- culturally, archaeologically, or otherwise, and the Dravidian languages are isolates- they have no connection to any other languages on the planet. "Dravidian" people don't even look Black. They have straight hair and most of them don't have features similar to Black folk. The "Black" people in India were proto-Australasians, but those were separate from the Dravidians. Look at the Black populations of India today- they don't speak Dravidian languages, but their own, Australasian languages.

Exactly. The problem with these guys is that they think they have it all figured out. The think all south indians look a certain way when there are south indian "dravidians" who are just as light skinned as anyone from the north. I've mentioned before that I come from a south indian fam and I have relatives who look white as fukk and others who are wesley snipes black...and they are all brahmins so you know they haven't mixed with others. It is what it is.

what's your opinion on the idea that there never was an "aryan invasion" of india?
 

Blackking

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So I guess if dna evidence isn't enough to show that they were black... and the fact that the first people of ancient India were black.. and the fact that the Aryan invasion didn't occur the way people said, and the fact of borrow ideas of culture and religion from Africa... doesn't amount to any clue to who there people were then I don't know what does. You really can't go against studies and DNA evidence to create your own narrative - that was already done in the 1800's. smh.
 

Blackking

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Exactly. The problem with these guys is that they think they have it all figured out. The think all south indians look a certain way when there are south indian "dravidians" who are just as light skinned as anyone from the north. I've mentioned before that I come from a south indian fam and I have relatives who look white as fukk and others who are wesley snipes black...and they are all brahmins so you know they haven't mixed with others. It is what it is.

what's your opinion on the idea that there never was an "aryan invasion" of india?
review links.. however, I suggest you go to a library and form your own opinion about your ancestors.. because if me and you traced our DNA there's a chance that you have more reasons to push these Ideas than I do. and keep in mind that I only touched the very tip of the knowledge on this... because you all obviously aren't ready.. I wrote a 44 page paper on this in college with 4 other people. So this is only a little bit of the information... the transfer of religious Ideas would take wayyy too long to explain.

you can form your own knowledgeable opinion.
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/1...3BA5D71.d01t04
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peopling_of_India
http://www.sciencemag.org/content/332/6027/346.abstract
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Negrito
http://www.dnaindia.com/india/162374...nvasion-theory
 

The Real

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Exactly. The problem with these guys is that they think they have it all figured out. The think all south indians look a certain way when there are south indian "dravidians" who are just as light skinned as anyone from the north. I've mentioned before that I come from a south indian fam and I have relatives who look white as fukk and others who are wesley snipes black...and they are all brahmins so you know they haven't mixed with others. It is what it is.

what's your opinion on the idea that there never was an "aryan invasion" of india?

IMO it's Eurocentric nonsense to enforce the idea that some light-skinned people with European connections brought civilization to the subcontinent by subjugating a dark-skinned, less developed people, but also based in a partial truth, which is that there was certainly a migration of Indo-European speakers (probably light-skinned) who brought the Vedic culture into India, where it mixed with the Dravidian culture to produce what we think of as Indian culture. But the difference between this and the Aryan invasion idea is that these Indo-Europeans were not necessarily more civilized, and in fact probably less, than the people who were in the subcontinent when they got there, and it wasn't invasions, but rather migration in steady waves of a people who were probably nomadic in origin and just slowly moving eastwards, eventually settling in India when they merged with the locals.

I think the Vedic culture not being indigenous is confirmed by a few different things. First, there's the kinds of plants and animals mentioned in them- horses, for example, which are very important to the Vedic culture and the sacrificial rituals, but which are in no way indigenous to India. Then there are the strong structural connections between the Vedic religion and the pagan religions of Europe (two sets of deities, whether Olympians and Titans or Devas and Asuras or Aesir and Vanir for the vikings, where the "good" set is ruled by a thunder god, whether Indra or Zeus, the thunder god being the son of the earth and the sky, eventually slaying his father, etc, and by the linguistic connections between Sanskrit, old Persian, and all the major European languges. This is definitely not to say that these Indo-Europeans were white, though- this is a linguistic/cultural and partially ancestral connection, but not necessarily a racial one. And this applies more to the earlier Vedas- the later ones seem to have been written after they started settling down in India and mixing cultures.

And I think the Harappa/Mohenjo-Daro civilizations were way more advanced than anything the Indo-Europeans had come up with- they were living in huge cities with multi-story buildings and closed sewer systems, which is crazy when you think that this was like 2,500-3,000 BC.
 

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IMO it's Eurocentric nonsense to enforce the idea that some light-skinned people with European connections brought civilization to the subcontinent by subjugating a dark-skinned, less developed people, but also based in a partial truth, which is that there was certainly a migration of Indo-European speakers (probably light-skinned) who brought the Vedic culture into India, where it mixed with the Dravidian culture to produce what we think of as Indian culture. But the difference between this and the Aryan invasion idea is that these Indo-Europeans were not necessarily more civilized, and in fact probably less, than the people who were in the subcontinent when they got there, and it wasn't invasions, but rather migration in steady waves of a people who were probably nomadic in origin and just slowly moving eastwards, eventually settling in India when they merged with the locals.

I think the Vedic culture not being indigenous is confirmed by a few different things. First, there's the kinds of plants and animals mentioned in them- horses, for example, which are very important to the Vedic culture and the sacrificial rituals, but which are in no way indigenous to India. Then there are the strong structural connections between the Vedic religion and the pagan religions of Europe (two sets of deities, whether Olympians and Titans or Devas and Asuras or Aesir and Vanir for the vikings, where the "good" set is ruled by a thunder god, whether Indra or Zeus, the thunder god being the son of the earth and the sky, eventually slaying his father, etc, and by the linguistic connections between Sanskrit, old Persian, and all the major European languges. This is definitely not to say that these Indo-Europeans were white, though- this is a linguistic/cultural and partially ancestral connection, but not necessarily a racial one. And this applies more to the earlier Vedas- the later ones seem to have been written after they started settling down in India and mixing cultures.

And I think the Harappa/Mohenjo-Daro civilizations were way more advanced than anything the Indo-Europeans had come up with- they were living in huge cities with multi-story buildings and closed sewer systems, which is crazy when you think that this was like 2,500-3,000 BC.

I tend to agree with you. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

Its also interesting to note that the ancient vedic culture and traditions are today most readily observed in the south of India amongst the Dravidian language speaking populations, rather than the north. Any thoughts on how or why that's the case?

In regards to Indra though, his significance in hindu scriptures and mythology outside of the Vedas is notably neutered. Outside of a few cameo appearances, his power and following pales in comparison to Vishnu and Shiva...most of the dieties that Hindus pay homage to are variants of either one of those two. Indra isn't nearly as important to the Hindu religion as Zeus was to the ancient Greek religion.
 

The Real

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I tend to agree with you. I think the truth lies somewhere in between.

Its also interesting to note that the ancient vedic culture and traditions are today most readily observed in the south of India amongst the Dravidian language speaking populations, rather than the north. Any thoughts on how or why that's the case?

In regards to Indra though, his significance in hindu scriptures and mythology outside of the Vedas is notably neutered. Outside of a few cameo appearances, his power and following pales in comparison to Vishnu and Shiva...most of the dieties that Hindus pay homage to are variants of either one of those two. Indra isn't nearly as important to the Hindu religion as Zeus was to the ancient Greek religion.

I noticed the culture and tradition thing as well. My layman's guess for that is just that the North is more "cosmopolitan" due to being invaded more than the south by pretty much everyone who ever invaded that area.

And as for Indra- that's very true, and I would defer to you on the matter of modern Hinduism. I was only talking about the Vedic religion in its absolute earliest form. In the Rig Veda, Indra is held to be supreme, and has the most verses dedicated to him out of any deity, while Vishnu has a relatively minor position. Obviously all that changed as the religion developed, the Upanishads came out, etc.
 

Majestyx

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Oh, I know. I'll never discount the contributions 5%ers have made to hip-hop. I don't believe in the stuff they preach, but they've produced classic hip-hop for days.

You left out KMD, btw. Mr. Hood is a classic.

just a minor correction, KMD arent 5% they are ansaars
 

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Blackking

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The roots of Hinduism in southern India, and among tribal and indigenous communities is just as ancient and fundamentally contributive to the foundations of the religious and philosophical system. The roots of Hinduism are thought to date back about 5,000 years.

60% of all Indians share the mtDNA haplogroup M, which is universal among Andamanese islander adivasis and might be a genetic legacy of the postulated first Indians. Some anthropologists theorise that these settlers were displaced by invading Austro-Asiatic-speaking Australoid people (who largely shared skin pigmentation and physiognomy with the Negritos, but had straight rather than curly hair), and adivasi tribes such as the Irulas trace their origins to that displacement

Most aborigines were animistic nature-worshippers, but the people of the first civilization of India,the Harappans, were perhaps beginning to develop some rituals and practices that formally metamorphosed into a more sophisticated religious structure known later as Vedic Hinduism. This new structure was the result of a cultural fusion between the different cultures.

Lastly, the linguistic diversity of ancient India should not be forgotten. We have no clear idea of what language the ancient Indians spoke. The language and the scripts of the first Indian civilization, remain a mystery(Chapter 3). We can, however, draw some deductions from the current language map of South Asia. Leaving aside minor languages spoken by the remaining aboriginals or by those living in the peripheral border areas, the two main language families are known as the Indo-Aryan and the Dravidian. It is believed that the Dravidian family is indigenous to India; and Tamil, the premierDravidian language, is perhaps the oldest Indian language in use today.Sanskrit, the mother language of the Indo-Aryan family, evolved out of a fusionof proto-Sanskrit, brought from Iran and Central Asia, and native Dravidian.

It flourished in ancient India as a classical language of both the north and,later, the south; but the ordinary people in the north came to use such vernacu-lar and non-standard languages known as Prakrits and the Apabrahmashas,from which the regional languages of the north have developed. Tamil has remained the predominant language of the Dravidian family throughout the ages, although it has been enriched by Sanskrit since ancient times. At least two other Dravidian languages – Telugu and Kannada – also developed during the ancient period.
 

The Real

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The roots of Hinduism in southern India, and among tribal and indigenous communities is just as ancient and fundamentally contributive to the foundations of the religious and philosophical system. The roots of Hinduism are thought to date back about 5,000 years.

60% of all Indians share the mtDNA haplogroup M, which is universal among Andamanese islander adivasis and might be a genetic legacy of the postulated first Indians. Some anthropologists theorise that these settlers were displaced by invading Austro-Asiatic-speaking Australoid people (who largely shared skin pigmentation and physiognomy with the Negritos, but had straight rather than curly hair), and adivasi tribes such as the Irulas trace their origins to that displacement

Most aborigines were animistic nature-worshippers, but the people of the first civilization of India,the Harappans, were perhaps beginning to develop some rituals and practices that formally metamorphosed into a more sophisticated religious structure known later as Vedic Hinduism. This new structure was the result of a cultural fusion between the different cultures.

Lastly, the linguistic diversity of ancient India should not be forgotten. We have no clear idea of what language the ancient Indians spoke. The language and the scripts of the first Indian civilization, remain a mystery(Chapter 3). We can, however, draw some deductions from the current language map of South Asia. Leaving aside minor languages spoken by the remaining aboriginals or by those living in the peripheral border areas, the two main language families are known as the Indo-Aryan and the Dravidian. It is believed that the Dravidian family is indigenous to India; and Tamil, the premierDravidian language, is perhaps the oldest Indian language in use today.Sanskrit, the mother language of the Indo-Aryan family, evolved out of a fusionof proto-Sanskrit, brought from Iran and Central Asia, and native Dravidian.

It flourished in ancient India as a classical language of both the north and,later, the south; but the ordinary people in the north came to use such vernacu-lar and non-standard languages known as Prakrits and the Apabrahmashas,from which the regional languages of the north have developed. Tamil has remained the predominant language of the Dravidian family throughout the ages, although it has been enriched by Sanskrit since ancient times. At least two other Dravidian languages – Telugu and Kannada – also developed during the ancient period.

The oldest Vedas have nothing to do with Dravidian culture. They're purely Indo-European.
 

Blackking

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The oldest Vedas have nothing to do with Dravidian culture. They're purely Indo-European.
That wasn't even my point, go back and read what I wrote.

Did I mentioned the oldest Vedas linked to dravidian culture in the post? I think I mention some other factual things.

But back to what you're saying... Are you trying to say the earliest religious text and cultures in India come from Indo-European languages and ideas??? what are you trying to imply exactly... with this statement above... or with statements to describe black people with straight hair as non black?? I hope you realize that many of the people who migrated out of Africa had straight hair. And about the Vedas - If you believe that the original Sanskrit in india was "Purely" Indo-european then you're just not telling the truth.

Indian's who practice Hinduism believe that the ancient verdas were reveled from the universe or gods... I bet you believe those gods were genetically Caucasoid.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vedas#Western_Indology

In spite of being comparatively close to the reconstructed form of Proto-Indo-Iranian, Vedic Sanskrit is already clearly marked as a language of the Indic group. Among the phonological changes from Proto-Indo-Iranian is the loss of the /z/ and /ž/ phonemes, and the introduction of a series of retroflex stops.

The separation of Indo-Aryans proper from the undifferentiated Proto-Indo-Iranian ancestor group is commonly dated, on linguistic grounds, to roughly 1800 BC

Vedic Sanskrit differs from Classical Sanskrit to an extent comparable to the difference between Homeric Greek and Classical Greek.


I think you're bring up languages and things that we aren't even talking about to make some point.... I'm not sure what that point is. I know it has something to do with Ancient Indians not being black, black people not having straight hair, royalty = caste system, culture in India having nothing to do with the black people who developed it... etc.
 

The Real

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But back to what you're saying... Are you trying to say the earliest religious text and cultures in India come from Indo-European languages and ideas??? what are you trying to imply exactly... with this statement above...

No. I'm trying to say that the earliest Vedas are Indo-European. The earliest cultures in India are obviously not Indo-European.

And about the Vedas - If you believe that the original Sanskrit in india was "Purely" Indo-european then you're just not telling the truth.

Read your own linked info below. The oldest Sanskrit was purely Indo-European.

In spite of being comparatively close to the reconstructed form of Proto-Indo-Iranian, Vedic Sanskrit is already clearly marked as a language of the Indic group. Among the phonological changes from Proto-Indo-Iranian is the loss of the /z/ and /ž/ phonemes, and the introduction of a series of retroflex stops.

The separation of Indo-Aryans proper from the undifferentiated Proto-Indo-Iranian ancestor group is commonly dated, on linguistic grounds, to roughly 1800 BC

Vedic Sanskrit differs from Classical Sanskrit to an extent comparable to the difference between Homeric Greek and Classical Greek.

Basically this says exactly what I was saying. The oldest Sanskrit was purely Indo-European. Just because it's not the same as proto-Indo-Iranian, doesn't mean it was part Dravidian. Languages evolve on their own, through separation and diffusion- that's no evidence of mixture, as your own info confirms, since it doesn't bring up Dravidian mixture as a reason to differentiate between the two. Obviously, the later Vedic Sanskrit has Dravidian in it.

I think you're bring up languages and things that we aren't even talking about to make some point.... I'm not sure what that point is. I know it has something to do with Ancient Indians not being black, black people not having straight hair, royalty = caste system, culture in India having nothing to do with the black people who developed it... etc.

The point is that you're speculating and reaching to try and extend Black history into areas it cannot be clearly established to belong, and that there's no reason to do that. There is no good reason to assume that the Dravidians were Black.
 
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