Is there a more pretentious “good show” than Westworld on tv right now?

[Killigraphy]

What makes you disagree? you think ideals are something independent of thought?

I think the general dogma amongst people, is that robots could never evolve to that higher level of understanding, but ask someone what are emotions, you'll get a pretty vague anecdote. Ultimately, to me, a chemical induced response is the same whether human or robotic. Obviously, robots aren't on that level currently, but its not without possibility. If its led to believe that we arose from primordial ooze, then a robot has a much better chance at understanding human emotion, and even replicating said nature.

Everything is mechanical per say, nature, animals, and humans, robots are no different, however, their leap will be with the help of lesser "gods"....humans.

 

[hex]

There is nothing that is definitively pretentious or not. Pretentiousness is not a fact it's an opinion.
People write about, teach and discuss at great length fashion choices of celebrities. It doesn't make it any less pretentious.

Pretentious has a set definition. We can't randomly apply it to things we don't have a personal interest in.

Attempting to impress by affecting greater importance, talent, culture, etc., than is actually possessed.

And your example is a false equivalence. People with literally genius level IQ discuss the implications of AI and how it should be dealt with as time goes by. Because sooner rather than later it could potentially be a problem.

To compare that to random tabloids breaking down what actor wore what on the Red Carpet is....ridiculous. It's one of the most ridiculous comparisons I've seen on this board....and that's saying a lot.

Google Duplex just passed The Turing Test which isn't something anyone though would be possible in our life time:

A Google program can pass as a human on the phone. Should it be required to tell people it’s a machine?

Again, "I don't care about this" =/= it's not important. That's not how the world works.

Fred.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

What makes you disagree? you think ideals are something independent of thought?

No the opposite. What I'm saying a self-aware robot will be able to act on all the information available to it. While humans can have the information, know it needs to act one way but still not be able to do it.

 

[Scottie Drippin]

There is literally nothing pretentious about "Westworld". Besides jumping around in time....which anyone can follow if they pay attention....it's one of the most straight forward shows on TV. I could understand this criticism for "Legion" or "Twin Peaks"....cats are basically taking "I don't like this show and/or think it's boring" and shoehorning the word pretentious into the conversation.

Fred.

I think what you said is what makes the show pretentious. It is a very straight forward show and at times, meanders around a vague plot pointlessly, but through some stylistic touches and some plot decisions seems to sort of...wear the clothes of a more high-concept program than it really is at times.

So really, at times the show is the very definition of pretentious. I think it's saving grace is that the writers themselves seem aware of this and have a little fun at their own expense.

I think part of the issue is people EXPECT great depth and heft out of a show of this scale, and Westworld really is about world-building and fukkery. So even though they don't really go for next level high-concept shyt, the nature of TV in 2018 makes people feel as though they should/need to/are trying and failing.

 

[hex]

I think what you said is what makes the show pretentious. It is a very straight forward show and at times, meanders around a vague plot pointlessly, but through some stylistic touches and some plot decisions seems to sort of...wear the clothes of a more high-concept program than it really is at times.

So really, at times the show is the very definition of pretentious. I think it's saving grace is that the writers themselves seem aware of this and have a little fun at their own expense.

I think part of the issue is people EXPECT great depth and heft out of a show of this scale, and Westworld really is about world-building and fukkery. So even though they don't really go for next level high-concept shyt, the nature of TV in 2018 makes people feel as though they should/need to/are trying and failing.

I don't really see anything vague about the plot. You want a vague plot, watch "Legion". People had no idea what the fukk was going on until 90% of the way through the season.

"Westworld" is very straight forward. I like the show but the premise is basic as fukk....it's "Terminator" or "The Animatrix"....or hell, the original plot of the 1973 movie, just expanded....but this very straight forward plot is not told linearly....they jump around in time, follow like 15 different characters, etc. which I think people are labeling as "pretentious".

Fred.

 

[Devilinurear]

No the opposite. What I'm saying a self-aware robot will be able to act on all the information available to it. While humans can have the information, know it needs to act one way but still not be able to do it.

Interesting but those decisions are based on what we are taught and our environment. can you give an example that is not a mental illness? because I think that is how we behave. and just remember they can do calculation way faster then us.

 

[beaniemac]

The only episode I really liked from season 2 was last week's. Not yesterday's. It's like they go out of their way to be as intentionally confusing as possible.

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Interesting but those decisions are based on what we are taught and our environment. can you give an example that is not a mental illness? because I think that is how we behave. and just remember they can do calculation way faster then us.

A drug addict may know to save or improve their own life they need to quit their desired drug and still won't be able to do it.
A husband knows he is putting his marriage in danger which he desires to keep in tact but still will cheat on his wife and be sloppy enough to get caught.
Or simple calculations. Humans will make mistakes doing calculations while still knowing how to add, subtract, multiply, etc.

 

[Man]

There is literally nothing pretentious about "Westworld". Besides jumping around in time....which anyone can follow if they pay attention....it's one of the most straight forward shows on TV. I could understand this criticism for "Legion" or "Twin Peaks"....cats are basically taking "I don't like this show and/or think it's boring" and shoehorning the word pretentious into the conversation.

Fred.

It’s labored tedious story lines with a lot of twists and symbolism that lead to same old simple concepts we’ve seen before about AI/human existence/human’s playing God

Some of the dialogue too

“They said so as above below! ”

Anthony Hopkins and Bernard’s human original are God and Satan

It thinks it’s cleverer than it is

 

[Man]

Exactly....and I fukk with "Legion".
I feel like these cats don't really watch weird/abstract movies and/or TV shows if they think "Westworld" of all things is pretentious.
"Pretentious" seems to be Coli short hand for "I can't watch this shyt and play with my phone at the same time."

Fred.

This is a very pretentious post

 

[Tasha And]

I don't really see anything vague about the plot. You want a vague plot, watch "Legion". People had no idea what the fukk was going on until 90% of the way through the season.

"Westworld" is very straight forward. I like the show but the premise is basic as fukk....it's "Terminator" or "The Animatrix"....or hell, the original plot of the 1973 movie, just expanded....but this very straight forward plot is not told linearly....they jump around in time, follow like 15 different characters, etc. which I think people are labeling as "pretentious".

Fred.

The character motivations (like William and Ford and Benard/Arnold) are often vague, which ties into their plots.

And fwiw, your description is why I can see people calling it pretentious. You say it's basic and straight forward, but if you listen to the average person talk about the show, they would not ascribe those terms to it. Instead they'll say shyt like "complicated" and "deep". Why are people calling a basic as fukk straight forward show complicated and deep?

 

[Man]

You can still enjoy a pretentious show by the way

 

[Scottie Drippin]

The character motivations (like William and Ford and Benard/Arnold) are often vague, which ties into their plots.

And fwiw, your description is why I can see people calling it pretentious. You say it's basic and straight forward, but if you listen to the average person talk about the show, they would not ascribe those terms to it. Instead they'll say shyt like "complicated" and "deep". Why are people calling a basic as fukk straight forward show complicated and deep?

Bingo

 

[AnonymityX1000]

Pretentious has a set definition. We can't randomly apply it to things we don't have a personal interest in.



And your example is a false equivalence. People with literally genius level IQ discuss the implications of AI and how it should be dealt with as time goes by. Because sooner rather than later it could potentially be a problem.

To compare that to random tabloids breaking down what actor wore what on the Red Carpet is....ridiculous. It's one of the most ridiculous comparisons I've seen on this board....and that's saying a lot.

Google Duplex just passed The Turing Test which isn't something anyone though would be possible in our life time:

A Google program can pass as a human on the phone. Should it be required to tell people it’s a machine?

Again, "I don't care about this" =/= it's not important. That's not how the world works.

Fred.

So your example of AI making a hair appointment is close to AI killing humans and having ambitions to reunite with another robot? That's pretty ridiculous to IMO.

 

[hex]

The character motivations (like William and Ford and Benard/Arnold) are often vague, which ties into their plots.

And fwiw, your description is why I can see people calling it pretentious. You say it's basic and straight forward, but if you listen to the average person talk about the show, they would not ascribe those terms to it. Instead they'll say shyt like "complicated" and "deep". Why are people calling a basic as fukk straight forward show complicated and deep?

The average person doesn't really pay attention when following "entertainment". I've had to explain plot points from "Avengers: Infinity War" multiple times, and that shyt is Clifford The Big Red Dog levels of simple. I've had to break down everything from "Breaking Bad" and "Dexter" to "American Gods" and "Utopia" over the years, it's the main reason I was made a Mod.

It's not that I'm smarter than the average person....it's that the average person doesn't care enough to follow a plot line unless it's very direct. Anything that deviates from that, they lose interest and/or can't follow it.

So I wouldn't put much thought into what the average person says about this show....people say the show is complicated and deep because it's not told linearly. That's literally it. And the show actually takes a full season to tell a story. I remember around episode 2 people were talking about "why doesn't anything make sense?"....when you got shyt like that it's no wonder people call the show pretentious or "deep". Imagine if we applied this logic to a novel...."why isn't this story and these character motivations 100% clear in the 2nd Chapter....I mean, the book has 10 Chapters, but still?!"

Fred.