That’s blatantly false. Otherwise Kareem wouldn’t be considered top 3 with 6 rings and 2 FMVPs. The Finals MVP argument started with Kobe in the 2000s as a way to demean him. Also, there was no internet back in the 80s and most of the 90s, so where were people having these stan war arguments at? This is why players like Kareem didn’t get demeaned as much because the infrastructure wasn’t there for haters to have a worldwide platform.
Another good example is Dr J. Fans recognize his name more and players like Jordan and other players showed him respect as a basketball forefather. Nobody even acknowledges that Moses Malone won MVP over him. So yes, the FMVP argument wasn’t weaponized like it is now.
This is a bad take. Moses didn't just "win the FMVP" over Dr J. He was the best player in The League in '83, immediately came to Dr J's team and became the best player on his team...
They both came from the ABA, both peaked roughly 1978-83 in the NBA but Moses' peak was higher, Moses' prime was higher. For guys who care about Finals record you all certainly seem to not know Dr J was 0-3 in The Finals until Moses arrived, the same Moses who led a Finals run two years earlier with Houston with big upset after big upset along the way...
Of the two, who again peaked and primed in the exact same era, only Moses can be argued to have been the best player in a league featuring Kareem, Magic, and Bird (both were back end or exiting their primes by the time Mike ascended). Nobody ever thought Dr J was a better player than Kareem---->but Moses has an argument....
In the context of the recent Steph glorification ongoing, this is part of the issue with rushing him over any and everybody to Top 10. The absolute single most underrated and forgotten All-Timer is Moses Malone, maybe because he lived quietly post-retirement until his death unlike Mike, Magic, Bird, Kareem, West, Kobe, anybody. He wasn't on TV or doing interviews or dropping merchandise or running teams or acting or none of that...
Steph has an argument over Moses for sure at this point, but that argument can still be made in Moses' favor too. You're right that no one acknowledges Moses winning FMVP, but don't make that statement so leisurely as if it was unwarranted. Moses was that guy abd the fact we literally talk about every Top 20 GOAT around him multiples more than we talk about him is frustrating...
I remember you telling me before that the FMVP argument started when guys wanted to argue Shaq over Kobe, because you were on the internet back then. I wasn't, and we're the same age, in real world basketball discussions bruh, I never, ever heard FMVP become commonplace in any discussion until 2015 after the NBA made it b2b years of the I Guarded LeBron Award. I never heard it weaponized against Kobe until I joined this website, but I heard it weaponized vs Bron in series he was the best player in by a mile...
I respect that you saw what you saw, I'm just saying that was never my experience. People who argued Shaq over Kobe didn't need to use the award because all you had to argue was for at least 6 of the 8 years together, Shaq was the better player. That's all people needed to say. When Kobe ran off that Comeback Kobe run is when you told me the FMVP weaponizing started, but you could make the case for Shaq to this day on his own merits...
I think overall we're both in agreement that the FMVP is greatly overvalued...
Of Kareem 6 titles he was the undisputed best player in 3 of them.
The only players who have more are Jordan and Russell both players I place above Kareem.
I have Kareem 4th after Jordan, Russell and Magic.
LeBron, Duncan (4); Mikan (5); Mike (6); and Russell (8) all won more championships as the #1 than Kareem...
Kareem is right there with Magic, Bird, and Shaq as the guys who won (3) championships as #1s...
They were playing the no-CP3 Rockets (with 37yo Terry starting next to Harden), Blazers, and no-Kawhi Spurs in those three series though.
And Kawhi was completely outplaying Steph for that first half until he got hurt.
Steph has been outshone in every single big series, literally every one, unless he was facing some pretender non-contender that no one expected to do anything.
Steph is already top-15 for me. The only two things keeping him out of top-10 is that his defense is so far behind most of the other guys I have up there (with the exception of Magic), and he's been relatively poor at taking over series and critical games. But if he plays really well in finishing this season off and then has one more MVP candidate / Finals MVP level season, I think you'd have to consider him to be ahead of Kobe and pushing on Bird and Shaq territory. Maybe ahead of Bird too.
Oh yeah bruh, Steph is already Top 15 to me too, I'm just saying this season I think the consensus has caught up to him in that place...
His opponents in those WCFs were his opponents, he was still the best player in those series regardless of circumstance. I don't disagree with the overall premise that he hasn't been the best player in most of his late playoff runs---->never the best player in any of his previous five Finals and never the best player in three of his six WCFs. It is a distinction that deserves to be made when guys are having the broader Steph conversation...
I also agree that continuing to extend his prime is what will warrant knocking someone off the Consensus 12. This run probably sits him right on the cusp of that, and personally I have been had him over O, but the consensus disagrees with me and rate O a Top 12 GOAT. I think he's the first to go with another prime Steph year but then all of the back-half Top 10 guys you referenced would be in play too, every single one of them...
Curry ain't even won yet