In Defense of Black Republicans
- Thread starter theworldismine13
- Start date
I asked you about black people and you responded that they have to fix the anti-academic culture or they aren't going anywhere. I explained to you why anti-academia isn't black culture, and that we are going places. So your point was not only invalid it was irrelevant.
Votes that are already set get much attention. Why do you think the Republican Party panders to their base so much? They spend more time trying to get votes they already have than they do trying to attract newcomers. This strategy worked for them until recently when minorities began to become more politicaly involved, now they have to attract some outside voters or they will never win a national election again. White people hold so much political power, for one because they are the majority, and for two both parties are convinced they need white votes to succeed. That creates a dynamic where both parties are pandering to AND trying to attract new white folks. We can, (and have already started to)create this ideal situation for ourselves by constantly increasing our turnout, and putting all our power behind those that create policies that are friendly to us, until someone new comes along with new friendly to us policies. I have no problem with jumping ship to republicans, after they change their policies, but splitting our vote up and voting republican now just for the fukk of it is beyond stupid.
Its a pretty fukking important data point in the context of a convo about black progress
How can you achieve black progress with a political party for whom a cornerstone of policy is black oppression???
"Moving past progressive politics" isn't advocating for one party over another?
I have a problem with the idea that black people should give any political power to the party that has been instrumental in our oppression + erosion of our rights + equal treatment for the past couple of decades
This contrarian bullshyt is so goofy.
yeah its a very important data point that the gop is racist and whose "cornerstone of policy is black oppression" but that's also true of just about every institution in the country including the democratic part, including the country itself
and like i said its simply a data point and it should not stop black from engaging in the gop or any other racist institution
this runaway slave political strategy will only go so far
no it isnt, its simply opening up intellectual space beyond progressive politics
you have given power to to a political party housed black people in projects and are architects of the prison industrial complex, so its the same difference and in fact that party was the main supporter of slavery and oppression of blacks for most of its history
It's not black culture. For anti-academia or anything else to be black culture it would have to hold true for black people of all walks of life not just the poor. ALL poor people subscribe to those types of ideas, and that's not just in America it's all over the world. It has nothing to do with black people or slavery, and everything to do with poverty.
What's funny is, you take the negative of some black folks and attribute it to all of us (black culture), but I bring up some positives about black folks then its "only some of us do that" With over 80% of our kids graduating highschool i'd say pro-academia is more black culture than the opposite.
is healthcare reform not black people friendly? How about education/student loan reform? What about infrastructure spending? Doesn't that bolster economic opportunities for blacks? Republicans fight against all this and more, if they got their way all of that stuff would get canceled in order to fund tax cuts for the rich, wouldn't that negatively affect most black families?
Splitting something up never increases power. It's simple math 12% will always be more powerful than 6%.
It's not outsourcing. It's working with those that give us the best chance to realize our goals. Being the minority we have to work with others. There's just not enough of us to make an impact without siding with someone else, or convincing them that our issues are important to them
A scramble for what? The only reason we get some consideration now is because we have proven that we can/will stand together behind an issue/candidate. If we start bereaking our vote up, that power we have gained will be diluted to the point where neither party will need to worry about gaining our vote, cause we couldn't tip the scales in either direction. By keeping our vote together we force both parties to repect us and our vote.
ignore what I actually posted and continue to attack your straw-man.
I've never said anything about progressives, affirmative action or any of that stuff you brought up. But I will say those types of social programs are what helps to pull people from poverty, black peopl have a problem with too many of us being impoverished, so it makes sense that we'd support those who support those types of programs.
Please demonstrate how the Democrats are even 1/10th as racist as the GOP.
You don't think we haven't examined GOP politics in depth here? Again you are defining "opening up" only as agreeing with your POV. PEople HAVE looked beyond progressive politics and STILL don't agree w/the alternatives.
O and for the record I voted for Gary Johnson.
Political parties change over time. Democrats were also the architects of the Civil Rights Act
Right now the GOP is a party that is anti-intellect, anti-science, anti-progress and anti-minority. There's a lot about the Democrats I don't agree with- which I have laid out here numerous times- but as it is, if you don't believe in going third party they are easily the lesser of two evils. Have the Dems taken advantage of our blind allegiance? Sure. But at the end of the day, they are the party that hasn't explicitly worked against us in recent history.
As the GOP is right now, it doesn't make much sense for anybody, let alone black people, to show them any kind of support. They are long overdue for a major overhaul. If you knew anything about American politics you would know this- many of their loudest most obstinate talking heads have even said this.
Brown_Pride
All Star
male witnesses
land owning male witness
It's not black culture. For anti-academia or anything else to be black culture it would have to hold true for black people of all walks of life not just the poor. ALL poor people subscribe to those types of ideas, and that's not just in America it's all over the world. It has nothing to do with black people or slavery, and everything to do with poverty.
What's funny is, you take the negative of some black folks and attribute it to all of us (black culture), but I bring up some positives about black folks then its "
im not sure where you are getting 80% from, but i can tell you that academic performance of black students is bad across the board regardless of income and there are a lot of places where the grad rate is less than 50
but as to your issue, i dont think there is anything wrong with looking at black poverty as part of a larger problem and as part of poverty in general
but if we as black people are gonna sit down and we want to talk about black poverty and how to overcome it then lets do that, but if we sit down and you simply say black poverty is just american poverty and we will deal with it as a general problem, in theory you can do that, but what you are really doing is outsourcing black issues to "progressives"
a good example is housing, if black people are lacking housing or have bad housing, what is the solution to that? we as black people can sit down and come up with a solution or we can say its imply part of a larger american problem and we should go along with the general solution by the "dem good white folk" and that is how projects came along
i dont the support the policy of public housing and section 8 because i do not think that is a black solution to a black problem, and i dont think it works
i think its completely legit and rational to look at black problems as simply part of a larger american problem, i simply refuse to co-sign that strategy because i think there are other ways of looking at it that are just as legit and just as rational
i dont see anything that you have said that is specific to blacks, i think you are within your intellectual rights to equate the black agenda with the progressive agenda and outsource your agenda
i just as a matter of principle refuse to do so
politics isnt simple math, politics is calculus
thats simply false, if black people split their vote it would cause a re balancing of politics
because you keep trying to deny the implication of your words, if you think problems that black people have are simply part of a larger american problem that should be dealt with general progressive policies that im simply mentioning progressive policies and asking if that is what you consider the solution to black problems?
i think its accurate to say that you have outsourced the "black agenda" to the larger democratic agenda, as far as you are concerned the black agenda and the progressive agenda is the same, is that not correct? am i putting words in your mouth?
88m3
Fast Money & Foreign Objects
What is the black agenda? What issues are specific to black people? And what are some black people specific ways to solve those issues?
i think thats a silly game, ive already said republicans are more outright racist than democrats
i just dont co-sign the strategy of simply aligning ourselves with "dem good white folk", if it increases your political and economic power or if you agree with their ideology its completely rational to join the gop
what i am saying is that we havent had an in depth examination of progressive policies on immigration, education, affirmative action, public housing, section 8, welfare etc etc and talked about their effectiveness in the black community
people just assume that its good because the "dem good white folk" support it and the gop is racist and the gop is against those policies so therefore we are for it
1) im not here to defend the gop
2) you just admitted that democrats have taken advantage of our blind allegiance, which is essentially what ive been saying and you just said that you support democrats because they are less racist, in other words "dem some good white folk"
and meach just admitted that he thinks black people should outsource black issues to the democrats
yall just basically admitted to everything im saying, im not even sure what it is you are arguing about unless you are trying to make a partisan argument
there is no real black agenda because we simply arent organized that way
but i would assert the black agenda is to increase the political and economic power of black people, period, one way to ensure that is intellectual freedom when it comes to politics and that was what the article is about, so that black people dont get stuck with some solutions coming from a particular ideology
when you start talking about specifics then you are talking ideology and you need to clarify what issue you are talking about
How can I outsource the "black agenda" if there is none? How can we look to solve black people specific problems if there are none?
You said the issues I brought up were not specific to black people and neither were the solutions. So give me some black people specific problems and solutions.
