In Defense of Black Republicans

[theworldismine13]

This is the part that really puzzles me. If if were slavery times, and some slave spent all his time and effort defending slavery and putting down ideas of revolt and independence, and was made an overseer as a result, would TWISM just describe it as "exercising intellectual freedom" and pro-Black because that slave had a position of power on the plantation? That seems to be the logical conclusion of his stance, which implies that there is no objective reality to the way policy affects racial groups differently, and thus no facts. What we're left with is "raw power" gained by simple representation any and everywhere, since there are no power relations but the relations of representation in particular spheres of society.

first of all being made overseer is not power

secondly the fundamental thing you have to understand is that voting for the democratic party is NOT a form of revolt and independence and its just as much a compromise with a racist system as voting republican or even living in this country

stop deluding yourself about what voting for democrats means

 

[The Real]

first of all being made overseer is not power

secondly the fundamental thing you have to understand is that voting for the democratic party is NOT a form of revolt and independence and its just as much a compromise with a racist system as voting republican or even living in this country

stop deluding yourself about what voting for democrats means

It wasn't an analogy where plantation = Republicans and independence = Dems. It was an example to test your framework. You say that being made an overseer is not power. Why not? According to everything you've said in this thread so far, it fulfills all of your qualifications for being pro-Black (as long as a Black person holds the position.)

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

stop deluding yourself about what voting for democrats means

Dude said none of what you accused him of saying, he is not the deluded one

 

[theworldismine13]

Thats my whole point, white kids are able to thrive in the same school system, therefore the issues black kids are having have to be something either outside the school system or stemming from differences in how the school system treats them vs white kids... neither of which will be solved by vouchers, and both of which have factors that would be exacerbated by them

again my point about vouchers and charters and starting from scratch is to deal with broken families and issues outside of the school, the current system is not designed to handle students like that

and if the black parent thinks their child is not being treated or taught properly then they simply take their kid out, right now under progressive ideas, if a black child is doing bad in school, the solution is to give the bureaucracy more money and force the child to stay at that school

Its all over the place because in your grand theory you have claimed in the past that black progress is being hindered by black anti-intellectualism, rap music, black culture... now you are claiming it all boils down to the public school system. You have a new scapegoat in every discussion and you can't make a case for any of em

And how would vouchers open up more resources? As is public schools are limited, now you are suggesting the solution is to limit them more by pooling their resources preferentially through vouchers

im not sure why you think i was ever separating the school system form black culture, i dont even get that, i have never suggested that anti intellectualism, rap music and black culture were something separate from the school system, i think you are putting words in my mouth

i never said it would open up resources, im suggesting that money can be used more efficiently and effectively by schools that are not being held down by bureaucracy

i just brought vouchers up because its an issue where a lot of black people are for it and progressives are against it and there are other issues where black people may not really like the progressives are going with it

the whole issue of charters and vouchers is an ideological and policy debate that can take up its own thread, the idea that vouchers or charters are bad, is simply your opinion and your ideological position, i do not agree

Yes... do you not see the difference between that and the GOP's explicitly racist + anti-black platform?

sure there is a difference between the explicit racism of the GOP and the implicit and hidden racism in the democratic party, what's your point?

Your arguments w/everyone who disagrees with you or points out the gross inaccuracies/fallacies in your thinking flies in the face of intellectual anything

And no you didn't title the article, but you agree with its premise, which is partisan

would you kindly point out what is partisan about the article, i must have missed it

and yeah i cosign the article and i also support the reason for the article which is the appointment of tim scott, not because i agree with him but because i think its important to expand beyond the democratic party

Well, for starters, regardless of its problems with race America is the land of opportunity. I've been around the world, I have many immigrant friends, my parents are immigrants so I know how it is. For me the pros here outweigh the cons, even though its far from perfect.

To take your silly analogy further, voting for the Dems is like living in the US. The US is far from perfect and doesnt always act in my best interest. But generally its good enough and more importantly it beats all alternatives. Voting is not an academic exercise- its a choice that can affect your life and its a privilege that people died for you to make. So pardon me for finding the idea that one should essentially "troll" with their vote and align with folks who have explicitly said "we are going to continue our legacy of fukking your ethnicity" to be just a teeny weeny lil lil bit ridiculous

yeah i get it, so you are willing to deal with racist people for economic reasons, you're a real revolutionary

 

[88m3]

You're really out of touch with reality

 

[theworldismine13]

It wasn't an analogy where plantation = Republicans and independence = Dems. It was an example to test your framework. You say that being made an overseer is not power. Why not? According to everything you've said in this thread so far, it fulfills all of your qualifications for being pro-Black (as long as a Black person holds the position.)

yeah but you used revolt and independence, those are very strong terms, if you used those strong terms than being made overseer is most def a loss and stupid

but lets be clear about what's going on, the crux of your argument is that democrats are less racist than republicans, that is very very very very very very very very far from "revolt and independence" so im just making it clear than none of you fuks are talking about revolt or revolution, you are simply crying like beatches and demanding that we vote for the least racist white people, dem good white folk

 

[theworldismine13]

Again you haven't offered any black people specific problems or solutions, just empty rhetoric. Truth is there aren't many if any black people specefic problems in today's America. Outside of racism, black people have the same issues as white people, Latinos, Asians and any one else.

You bring up education which for one isn't a black people specific problem, for two there is no way to solve the problem without looking at the entire picture as opposed to just the black part of it. Unless you propose pushing a "money for black students" bill(which IMO wouldn't help) any solution you come up with will have to include all students not just black folks.

Currently in America about 88% of black students complete high school. That is a true fact from the department of education. You keep trying to say black culture is anti-academic but this stat disproves your assertion.

I don't see how you can demonize things like section 8 housing vouchers but champion education vouchers.

It has already been proven that vouchers are not the solution. First off there is just not enough money to go around to make sure all children have access to the program, second the kids that do receive vouchers aren't getting enough to enroll in the best schools. What good is a voucher if the parents can't afford co-payments?

Also vouchers tend to hurt public schools and the students left behind in public schools. If money and resources are being used to send kids to private school, then the kids left behind in public school receive even less then they already get.

The better idea is to use that money and resources to improve the public school system so that all students can have a fair chance at a quality education, not just those lucky enough to be chosen for vouchers.

i acknowledged that you can look at black problems as simply part of a larger america problem, i didnt say it was wrong to do that, if you chose to do that thats fine

education is not a black specific problem, but if we as black people are going to have a conversation about education, then we should focus on black education, for the most part black kids go to majority black school so i think we should just talk about black schools even if some of the problems overlap with other ethnic groups

like i said before, how you choose to talk about it is a matter of choice, it s not something that is written in stone

i dont know where you are getting your stats from, but like i said black academic performance lags other ethnic groups

as far as vouchers and charters, what i said is that we should eliminate the public school system, and replace it wiht vouchers and charter schools, so i dont know what you mean by people left behind, there is no behind to leave them in and no i dont agree in putting more money into a broken down ineffective bureaucracy

As the other poster said, you are all over the place. On one hand you say black folks should concentrate on academics, then on the other hand you wanna complain about immigrants taking all the non-academic labor jobs. The immigrants that would be legalized are already here and working those jobs, legalizing them would make employers have to pay them competitive wages, which would actualy increase black folks chances of getting those jobs because employers would have no monetary incentive to hire immigrants.

i dont know how is it a contradication in saying black people should focus on academics and making sure black people have access to low wage jobs? why cant we do both?

what legalizing would do is create a new wave of illegals, educated black people and educated people in general would not get hurt by it, the people that ar working those jobs now are people taking jobs from americans and its the people with no diploma black or white that would get hurt by a new influx of illegals and amnesty to illegals

 

[Brown_Pride]

Damn i just saw this and it's depressing, twimmy might have a point to a degree.
Senate HIstory of Minorities is relegated to 1 web page.
U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > People > Senators > Ethnic Diversity in the Senate
I'm 1 finger or toe short of being able to count ALL minorities in the HISTORY OF THE US SENATE on my hands and toes. (21)

That's just nuts.

 

[theworldismine13]

Damn i just saw this and it's depressing, twimmy might have a point to a degree.
Senate HIstory of Minorities is relegated to 1 web page.
U.S. Senate: Art & History Home > People > Senators > Ethnic Diversity in the Senate
I'm 1 finger or toe short of being able to count ALL minorities in the HISTORY OF THE US SENATE on my hands and toes. (21)

That's just nuts.

Lol, I'm not saying anything crazy, all I'm saying if people like Tim Scott want to join the republicans it's all good in the hood

i find the the notion of beefing with tim scott aside from differences of opinion silly

 

[Brown_Pride]

Lol, I'm not saying anything crazy, all I'm saying if people like Tim Scott want to join the republicans it's all good in the hood

i find the the notion of beefing with tim scott aside from differences of opinion silly

By difference do you mean my (our) belief that he's a sell out punk son of a biotch house nicca uncle tom where as he believes he's not?

 

[TLR Is Mental Poison]

again my point about vouchers and charters and starting from scratch is to deal with broken families and issues outside of the school, the current system is not designed to handle students like that

and if the black parent thinks their child is not being treated or taught properly then they simply take their kid out, right now under progressive ideas, if a black child is doing bad in school, the solution is to give the bureaucracy more money and force the child to stay at that school

How would vouchers enable schools to deal with broken families and issues outside of school?

And if a parent feels their kid isn't being treated right, they can do a lot. They can pull the kid out of school and put them in private school. They can move to another district. They can try and get their kid into a gifted school. They can take things up with the school board and get into litigation if its that serious. They can join the school board. And note, only the litigation angle would cost the school any money. So what are you talking about?

im not sure why you think i was ever separating the school system form black culture,

Not sure why you think I thought that; I said what I meant- you keep coming up with different major hindrances to "black progress" and failing to rationalize your thinking.

i dont even get that, i have never suggested that anti intellectualism, rap music and black culture were something separate from the school system, i think you are putting words in my mouth

Who is putting words in who's mouth? I'm not even gonna address this because this isn't what I said at all

i never said it would open up resources, im suggesting that money can be used more efficiently and effectively by schools that are not being held down by bureaucracy

Explain the difference between opening up resources and using money more efficiently.

i just brought vouchers up because its an issue where a lot of black people are for it and progressives are against it and there are other issues where black people may not really like the progressives are going with it

the whole issue of charters and vouchers is an ideological and policy debate that can take up its own thread, the idea that vouchers or charters are bad, is simply your opinion and your ideological position, i do not agree

So in other words you brought up vouchers but can't explain why and are trying to back away from/button down it... cool

sure there is a difference between the explicit racism of the GOP and the implicit and hidden racism in the democratic party, what's your point?

That difference is pretty fukking significant you big dummy

For many reasons, but the first being explicit racism = objective, "hidden" racism = subjective. The resumes and platforms of the two parties say it all, unless you are saying people shouldn't consider a party's platform/policies when they vote for them... doesn't seem like a real "intellectual" approach to voting though

would you kindly point out what is partisan about the article, i must have missed it

Its suggestion that we disregard Republicans' explicitly anti-black legacies in the pursuit of pro black agendas

and yeah i cosign the article and i also support the reason for the article which is the appointment of tim scott, not because i agree with him but because i think its important to expand beyond the democratic party

I agree that we should expand beyond the Dem party, just not into the GOP... dozens of posts later you have yet to show why I'm wrong

yeah i get it, so you are willing to deal with racist people for economic reasons, you're a real revolutionary

I never claimed to be a revolutionary, dikkface. But when you get lemons, you make lemonade... you don't drink the Draino under the sink instead "to expand your gastrointestinal horizons".

 

[Brown_Pride]

Twimmy i think really what you need to answer is
"WHY SHOULD A BLACK PERSON VOTE REPUBLICAN?"

I honestly cannot think of one...? Help me out.

 

[theworldismine13]

How would vouchers enable schools to deal with broken families and issues outside of school?

because it eliminates the school bureaucracy and it will force schools that dont deal with it to be eliminated

And if a parent feels their kid isn't being treated right, they can do a lot. They can pull the kid out of school and put them in private school. They can move to another district. They can try and get their kid into a gifted school. They can take things up with the school board and get into litigation if its that serious. They can join the school board. And note, only the litigation angle would cost the school any money. So what are you talking about?

vouchers will help parents that want to go to private school, moving is neither here nor there

why should somebody have to move, thats your answer to bad schools?

i dont agree with going to the school board, the school board shouldnt be running the school, its a bureaucracy that vouchers are meant to eliminate

and sure you can litigate, but i dont see that as a serious option, what are you going to litigate?

Not sure why you think I thought that; I said what I meant- you keep coming up with different major hindrances to "black progress" and failing to rationalize your thinking.

i dont know what that means, is it possible that there are different things that are hindrance to black progress?????

ive said things about rap music, ive said things about black culture, and ive said things about school reform in different threads, if there is a thread about rap music why would i start talking about school reform, i dont get that

i think whats happening is that you are using things ive said in other threads and then trying to cut and paste them here

but ive never said things like black culture and school reform are completely separate

Who is putting words in who's mouth? I'm not even gonna address this because this isn't what I said at all

this is what you said

Its all over the place because in your grand theory you have claimed in the past that black progress is being hindered by black anti-intellectualism, rap music, black culture... now you are claiming it all boils down to the public school system. You have a new scapegoat in every discussion and you can't make a case for any of em

then you explain what you mean, how is my critiquing rap music and and black culture somehow completely different than me critiquing the public school system or how is it hypocritical, i dont see what the contradiction is?

so you are saying that my critique of rap music precludes me critiquing the school system????? what?

that makes no senses to me, i can criticize rap culture as an impediment to black progress and i can criticize the school system as an impediment to black progress, i see no contradiction in that

Explain the difference between opening up resources and using money more efficiently.

its the same difference but the purpose of vouchers is not necessarily to have more resources its to have a more efficient responsive school system

So in other words you brought up vouchers but can't explain why and are trying to back away from/button down it... cool

i brought up vouchers because its an issue that a lot of black are for and progressives are against and an example of how black people can disagree on issues and end up siding with republicans

but i made a post about intellectual freedom, so unless you are suggesting that supporting vouchers is anti black or racist then the actual discussion of vouchers is not relevant to the thread, but ill be more than happy to talk about vouchers in another thread

That difference is pretty fukking significant you big dummy

For many reasons, but the first being explicit racism = objective, "hidden" racism = subjective. The resumes and platforms of the two parties say it all, unless you are saying people shouldn't consider a party's platform/policies when they vote for them... doesn't seem like a real "intellectual" approach to voting though

its a big difference according to your theory of voting for "dem good white folk", thats all

Its suggestion that we disregard Republicans' explicitly anti-black legacies in the pursuit of pro black agendas

where in the article did it say that? i missed that part

I agree that we should expand beyond the Dem party, just not into the GOP... dozens of posts later you have yet to show why I'm wrong

i think you are confused, i posted an article that said that its important to protect the intellectual freedom of black republicans, i wasnt saying that black people should vote for the gop

im saying black people shouldn't be told how to vote, im not trying to tell people what is the appropriate party to vote for, thats exactly what im protesting

if you dont think black people should vote for the gop, thats fine, thanks for sharing, the fuk you want from me?

me beef would come if you are trying to say that your way of rationalizing and analyzing issues is the only way a black person can think

so is that what you are saying, that the only way for a black person to analyze politics is to see who is the least racist? or are you saying that every conservative policy is racist and every black person should oppose all conservative policies?

I never claimed to be a revolutionary, dikkface. But when you get lemons, you make lemonade... you don't drink the Draino under the sink instead "to expand your gastrointestinal horizons".

i know you are not a revolutionary, but you are lashing out in anger at anybody that disagrees with you as if you are

all you are suggesting is a way of compromising with racist people and racist institutions in a racist country, dont front like you are saying anything revolutionary, all you are suggesting is voting for "dem good white folk"

 

[theworldismine13]

Twimmy i think really what you need to answer is
"WHY SHOULD A BLACK PERSON VOTE REPUBLICAN?"

I honestly cannot think of one...? Help me out.

that wasnt my point to tell anybody how to vote, but the obvious reason why a black person to vote for the gop is that you believe in conservative ideology and consider government programs to be a hindrance to black people

 

[theworldismine13]

By difference do you mean my (our) belief that he's a sell out punk son of a biotch house nicca uncle tom where as he believes he's not?

its a free country