In Defense of Black Republicans

[Hiphoplives4eva]

i dont think its debatable that white racists are comfortable in the republican party, but i think its highly debatable whether black people should go along with the democratic policy prescriptions

i think thats where imo black people have gone off the rails, regardless of how racist republicans are it doesnt follow that black people need to ride or die for the democratic party or their policy ideas

we know for sure that tim scott will not be supporting the democratic agenda....but what exactly is this "black agenda" that he is being accused of not supporting and who made this "black agenda"

methinks there is some intellectual stagnation going on here

This.

Black people have been voting solidly Democrat in favor of the "black agenda" for the better part of 40 years and literally have NOTHING to show for it. Poverty levels amongst African Americans are at an all time high, our communities are fukking warzones, and the black family is in complete disarray. But yet in still, blacks will continue to vote for the party that promises them free food stamps thinking that they are somehow furthering the "black agenda." If the current state of affairs in the black community is the result of a pro-democratic "black agenda", then personally I want no parts of it.

 

[theworldismine13]

im telling you that politically, progressive politics are not reactionary. it is not defense, it is offense. conservative politics are defensive and reactionary.

and i am not arguing the veracity of them, just that the definition as reactionary is actually wrong.

ok, i read what you wrote, im not trying to put words in your mouth, what you said is that black people should embrace progressive policies because of racism in the republican party, is that not what you are saying?

 

[alpo]

This.

Black people have been voting solidly Democrat in favor of the "black agenda" for the better part of 40 years and literally have NOTHING to show for it. Poverty levels amongst African Americans are at an all time high, our communities are fukking warzones, and the black family is in complete disarray. But yet in still, blacks will continue to vote for the party that promises them free food stamps thinking that they are somehow furthering the "black agenda." If the current state of affairs in the black community is the result of a pro-democratic "black agenda", then personally I want no parts of it.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

This.

Black people have been voting solidly Democrat in favor of the "black agenda" for the better part of 40 years and literally have NOTHING to show for it. Poverty levels amongst African Americans are at an all time high, our communities are fukking warzones, and the black family is in complete disarray. But yet in still, blacks will continue to vote for the party that promises them free food stamps thinking that they are somehow furthering the "black agenda." If the current state of affairs in the black community is the result of a pro-democratic "black agenda", then personally I want no parts of it.

Not true at all. Our poverty rates are lower than ever. Our crime rates are lower than ever. Our graduation rates are higher than ever. And our family structures while not ideal, are way better than they were 40 years ago when the crack epidemic started.

You dudes have a very skewed view of our standing now and what it was in the past. I always see people on this board talmbout " going back to black Wall Street" yeah the idea of a black Wall Street sounds good, but black people were way worse off then. If we go back to then we'd go back to being uneducated and powerless in American politics. Over the last 40 years we have constantly improved our standing in America and the world. Yes we still have a long way to go, but obviously something's working thus far.

 

[NZA]

ok, i read what you wrote, im not trying to put words in your mouth, what you said is that black people should embrace progressive policies because of racism in the republican party, is that not what you are saying?

im not saying they should be progressives. black people can become revolutionaries and avoid all of this if they want to, but conservative politics is the only reactionary position in politics. conservatives are always trying to conserve the status quo. for us, and many other marginalized people, the status quo has been mostly negative, thus the overwhelming support among these types for progressive politics. once progressives change the baselines enough for what a status quo can be (end of slavery, end of jim crow, and such) eventually conservatives accept these things as a baseline, though when they are feeling themselves they try to go for a repeal of something progressives fought for.

blacks and a whole host of other groups (i keep bringing these groups up so that you can see this is not unique to blacks, it is common among any rational minority voting bloc and has nothing to do with good white folks, just enough useful white folks to win a voting majority) will start voting republican when enough republicans have accepted more progressive policies and concepts as the baseline for what american society should be. to leave race for a moment, we have come to a point where republicans were even scared to overtly say they wanted to get rid of all the social benefits that we have put in place for the retired. back to race, the election immediately had republicans talking about being softer on immigration.

im not on a democrat plantation or whatever, im just giving you straight poltical science. this nation will become more politically complicated, but it takes time, as i mentioned earlier in this conversation. to put it bluntly, cacs must become marginalized, the only legal way to do that is for their voting numbers to drop. that can drop because they stop thinking like a cac, they get old and die, non cacs outpace their birth rate, pull some election day shenanigans in cac neighborhoods the way they always do to us, etc.

now, a revolution can go outside of the system and maybe do something violent or whatever, but if you want to get things done in poltiics, you must outdo the cac vote. that is a raw numbers game. all we do at the end of the day is count votes.

 

[Fillerguy]

It's pretty easy, all you have to do is stop thinking like a runaway slave and think in terms of offense instead of defense

I also dont know why you always patronize the nay sayers when it comes to this issue. shyt on me for thinking like a runaway slave but isnt this:

At some point in time we have to stop being runaway slaves looking for friendly white folk and start being actors on the world stage, the reason why a black person would associate with these racists is for increasing the raw political and economic power of black people

the same as staying on the plantation, hoping that you can change it within?

I haven't gone through all your posts in this thread.....So maybe you explain why shacking up with "good white folks" is worse than reppin a party that doesn't want or need us and isnt afraid to show it.

This shyts the modern day lightweight Booker T. Washington Vs. Web Dubois. Of course the only difference being we have no real leadership, no since of unity , no national relevance and our black on black hostility is higher now more than ever.

 

[Hiphoplives4eva]

Not true at all. Our poverty rates are lower than ever. Our crime rates are lower than ever. Our graduation rates are higher than ever. And our family structures while not ideal, are way better than they were 40 years ago when the crack epidemic started.

You dudes have a very skewed view of our standing now and what it was in the past. I always see people on this board talmbout " going back to black Wall Street" yeah the idea of a black Wall Street sounds good, but black people were way worse off then. If we go back to then we'd go back to being uneducated and powerless in American politics. Over the last 40 years we have constantly improved our standing in America and the world. Yes we still have a long way to go, but obviously something's working thus far.

Now while blacks have been worse off, they definitely are heading in the wrong direction based on this data from the US Dept of Health and Human Servces..:

Information on Poverty and Income Statistics: A Summary of 2012 Current Population Survey Data

• For African-American children, the poverty rate reported today was 37.4 percent for 2011. The rate for Hispanic children was 34.1 percent. For non-Hispanic, White children the rate was 12.5 percent.

•In calendar year 2011, the poverty rate for all African-American persons was 27.5 percent. This is statistically unchanged from 27.4 percent in 2010, and it is below the recent peak poverty rate of 33.4 percent in 1992.

Keep in mind however that the artificially lower poverty numbers seen from 1993-2000 was also during the housing boom, where many black families were graduated into the "middle class" based on home ownership. One the collapse in 2008 occurred, market corrections results in the subsequent increase in African American poverty to levels seen in the Bush years.

 

[theworldismine13]

im not saying they should be progressives. black people can become revolutionaries and avoid all of this if they want to, but conservative politics is the only reactionary position in politics. conservatives are always trying to conserve the status quo. for us, and many other marginalized people, the status quo has been mostly negative, thus the overwhelming support among these types for progressive politics. once progressives change the baselines enough for what a status quo can be (end of slavery, end of jim crow, and such) eventually conservatives accept these things as a baseline, though when they are feeling themselves they try to go for a repeal of something progressives fought for.

blacks and a whole host of other groups (i keep bringing these groups up so that you can see this is not unique to blacks, it is common among any rational minority voting bloc and has nothing to do with good white folks, just enough useful white folks to win a voting majority) will start voting republican when enough republicans have accepted more progressive policies and concepts as the baseline for what american society should be. to leave race for a moment, we have come to a point where republicans were even scared to overtly say they wanted to get rid of all the social benefits that we have put in place for the retired. back to race, the election immediately had republicans talking about being softer on immigration.

im not on a democrat plantation or whatever, im just giving you straight poltical science. this nation will become more politically complicated, but it takes time, as i mentioned earlier in this conversation. to put it bluntly, cacs must become marginalized, the only legal way to do that is for their voting numbers to drop. that can drop because they stop thinking like a cac, they get old and die, non cacs outpace their birth rate, pull some election day shenanigans in cac neighborhoods the way they always do to us, etc.

now, a revolution can go outside of the system and maybe do something violent or whatever, but if you want to get things done in poltiics, you must outdo the cac vote. that is a raw numbers game. all we do at the end of the day is count votes.

thats fine, so you are saying black people have to go against conservatives because they are racist and you think fighting racism is the main priority and you think black people should join with other minorities to fight racist conservatives

thats totally fine and completely rational and pro black

im just saying there is another way of looking at that is also fine, rational and pro black

first of all its not a given that black people should wait for the GOP to be less racist or more progressive to join the GOP, i would describe that is defensive and not offensive, in terms of political science if the black vote were split, black political power would increase, and i think our goal should be to increase black political power, period, i disagree that fighting racism and racists is the central goal of black people

your whole spiel about outpacing "cacs" explains why progressives are so intent in granting amnesty to 11 million illegal aliens so those 11 million immigrants can outpace "cacs", that policy goal is a policy goal of progressives and i would assert that its not in our interest nor should it be a policy goal of black people, i made my spiel in the other immigration thread, so i wont make it here, but its not in our interest

this and other issues and policies its very clear why they are important to progressives but its not clear to me how they important or in the interests of black people, so overall im not impressed by progressives, if progressives have in the past done things to help black people i look at it as political transaction, and that's it, whether its biden and obama, scott and demint, or mlk and johnson, its all just political transactions, its not a wedding

 

[theworldismine13]

I also dont know why you always patronize the nay sayers when it comes to this issue. shyt on me for thinking like a runaway slave but isnt this:


the same as staying on the plantation, hoping that you can change it within?

I haven't gone through all your posts in this thread.....So maybe you explain why shacking up with "good white folks" is worse than reppin a party that doesn't want or need us and isnt afraid to show it.

This shyts the modern day lightweight Booker T. Washington Vs. Web Dubois. Of course the only difference being we have no real leadership, no since of unity , no national relevance and our black on black hostility is higher now more than ever.

because those "good white folks" have their own interests that may not always align with yours, and the reason why you would rep a party that doesnt like you is as part of a political transaction to give you more power

 

[NZA]

thats fine, so you are saying black people have to go against conservatives because they are racist and you think fighting racism is the main priority and you think black people should join with other minorities to fight racist conservatives

thats totally fine and completely rational and pro black

im just saying there is another way of looking at that is also fine, rational and pro black

first of all its not a given that black people should wait for the GOP to be less racist or more progressive to join the GOP, i would describe that is defensive and not offensive, in terms of political science if the black vote were split, black political power would increase, and i think our goal should be to increase black political power, period, i disagree that fighting racism and racists is the central goal of black people

your whole spiel about outpacing "cacs" explains why progressives are so intent in granting amnesty to 11 million illegal aliens so those 11 million immigrants can outpace "cacs", that policy goal is a policy goal of progressives and i would assert that its not in our interest nor should it be a policy goal of black people, i made my spiel in the other immigration thread, so i wont make it here, but its not in our interest

this and other issues and policies its very clear why they are important to progressives but its not clear to me how they important or in the interests of black people, so overall im not impressed by progressives, if progressives have in the past done things to help black people i look at it as political transaction, and that's it, whether its biden and obama, scott and demint, or mlk and johnson, its all just political transactions, its not a wedding

i can only say this in so many ways. i dont care about racism, i care about racist policies. policies, not attitudes

i am also not talking about waiting for the GOP to be less racist. i actually described in great detail how progressive politics moves the baselines in this country, and that eventually conservatives are forced to accept certain things. this is action, not waiting. it is hard work and people died making it happen.

i have explained in very cold mechanical terms how this is a political transaction. like literally, i cant seem to help you understand that part. you seem to want to boil everything down to some emotional love of good white people, even when i have to explain simple political concepts and how they are based on interest groups and votes, not love or "weddings". it's a strawman. there is not an ounce of party loyalty in anything i have said in here. everything is transactional and based on winning in a system that needs votes, or revolution outside of the system. that's all i am talking about, breh.

 

[88m3]

Black Republicans should be defended they're an endangered species.

 

[theworldismine13]

i can only say this in so many ways. i dont care about racism, i care about racist policies. policies, not attitudes

well again, this is why i brought up biden, more than any other politician alive, biden is the most responsible for the prison industrial complex, do you consider him to have racist policies or not?

i am also not talking about waiting for the GOP to be less racist. i actually described in great detail how progressive politics moves the baselines in this country, and that eventually conservatives are forced to accept certain things. this is action, not waiting. it is hard work and people died making it happen.

yes you described how you plan to outpace the "cacs", presumably with hispanics and asians to create a "progressive" majority

i personally will not co-sign that, thats all

i have explained in very cold mechanical terms how this is a political transaction. like literally, i cant seem to help you understand that part. you seem to want to boil everything down to some emotional love of good white people, even when i have to explain simple political concepts and how they are based on interest groups and votes, not love or "weddings". it's a strawman. there is not an ounce of party loyalty in anything i have said in here. everything is transactional and based on winning in a system that needs votes, or revolution outside of the system. that's all i am talking about, breh.

yeah and there is nothing wrong with that, but there are other ways of looking at the issue of black politics that doesnt include joining with progressives or a revolution

 

[MeachTheMonster]

Now while blacks have been worse off, they definitely are heading in the wrong direction based on this data from the US Dept of Health and Human Servces..:

Information on Poverty and Income Statistics: A Summary of 2012 Current Population Survey Data




Keep in mind however that the artificially lower poverty numbers seen from 1993-2000 was also during the housing boom, where many black families were graduated into the "middle class" based on home ownership. One the collapse in 2008 occurred, market corrections results in the subsequent increase in African American poverty to levels seen in the Bush years.

The current negative trends hold true for the entire country, not just blacks. We are coming out of a GLOBAL recession. It's tough for everybody, but we are still way better off than we were 40 years ago.

 

[MeachTheMonster]

in terms of political science if the black vote were split, black political power would increase, and i think our goal should be to increase black political power, period, i disagree that fighting racism and racists is the central goal of black people

what? That makes no sense whatsoever. How can 7% change anything? Splitting our vote up only removes the little political power that we have. It's not about fighting racism, it's about advancing black people friendly policy. That's not happening in the Republican Party period. Even if we all got down with republicans, there is still not enough of us to change the party or their politics.

 

[theworldismine13]

what? That makes no sense whatsoever. How can 7% change anything? Splitting our vote up only removes the little political power that we have. It's not about fighting racism, it's about advancing black people friendly policy. That's not happening in the Republican Party period. Even if we all got down with republicans, there is still not enough of us to change the party or their politics.

im getting tired of your scared negro schtick