I'm sorry but has there actually been a worse president than Trump?

[acri1]

He's at Bush-level; the damage he's wrought has been largely internal to the US as opposed to external - as in the Wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The erosion of civil rights, environmental regulation, and financial protection, etc. Trump does not have a single tangible "accomplishment" - even the watered-down "criminal justice reform" act his cabinet developed was toothless.

Perhaps the amount of right-wing and corrupt federal judges he's put on the bench could be seen as an "accomplishment" if you're a conservative - but he is certainly in the top 3 "worst" Presidents of the last 50 years or so.

Yeah. Aside from Covid mishandling and denying climate change, putting a ton of racist far-right judges on for life might be the worst aspect of this presidency in the long-term.

They're going to be giving nikkas ridiculous prison sentences for the next 50 years.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Okay, new list:


he's probably the worst environmental president ever and at a pretty bad time for it too, a time when we actually could have made the switch to environmentally positive policies yet he does the exact opposite.

He's a horrible civil rights president, trying to roll back literally everything he can.

He's one of the worst deficit presidents ever, crazy increase of military spending at the same time he cut taxes for the rich.

He's fukked up health care for millions of people.

He's abused human rights for thousands of people including little kids coming through the border, with something like a dozen kids dying in his camps.

He's closed all federal investigations against police departments and openly encouraged them to brutalize subjects and abuse protesters

He's reduced business regulation in ways that threaten civil rights and give corporations more freedom to screw shyt up again

He's fukked up the responses to multiple natural disasters including really really screwing up Puerto Rico something terribly

Has given Russia a free reign to commit atrocities and interfere with US politics while likely sharing state secrets with their dictator

Acted stupidly with nations like North Korea and Iran in ways that ended with no benefit to the USA and could have triggered war

He's befriended some of the most violent, abusive dictators across the world and made clear the USA will absolutely not oppose even the most obvious atrocities, even to the point of bragging that he got MBS off without repercussions

He's fed into extremely violent moves by both Saudi Arabia and Israel, including helping facilitate a Saudi war in Yemen that has killed hundreds of thousands of innocents

One of the biggest accelerators for White Supremacist feeling in our lifetimes, openly stirring up hate and encourage like-minded racists

He's turned 40% of the American public against journalism and fact-checking completely, so they have literally no rudder for truth or reality but simply believe whatever they are told to believe

He's normalized the idea of presidents ignoring norms and doing whatever the fukk they want without consequences.

And, of course, he's completely botched the government response to coronavirus and likely caused tens of thousands of deaths (or more) and cost millions of people their jobs.

He's appointed two far-right justices to the Supreme Court, one of whom is a straight Republican political operative.

He and McConnell have stacked the courts from top to bottom with terrible, unqualified, right-wing kooks

Pulled the United States out of UNESCO, the UN Human Rights Council, and the WHO

Broke the multilateral nuke deal with Iran

Left the Paris Accords

Pulled out of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty and the Open Skies Treaty



Edit: All this and I didn't even get to the shyt he was actually impeached for. Or fukking up election integrity. Or getting US soldiers killed in terribly conceived missions. Or the post office!

 

[DEAD7]

But those companies in China are using that production to:

a) Provide for their population, and
b) Provide products for our population

If China was the same population size as us they would produce far less emissions than us. If they didn't produce manufacturing for us and others they would produce even less pollution. That isn't even remotely in question.

Yet they have four times the population of the US

I’m arguing that their coal production is increasing while America and the rest of the developed world is decreasing and moving away from coal... Chinas centrally planned economy is IMO the biggest threat to the planet until they get on board with reducing coal usage.

Also, the industrial sector accounted for around two thirds of China’s total energy consumption and consumed about 95 percent of the country’s coal. They are polluting for industry, not their people... lets stop using population as a smokescreen for greed.



I think you guys just enjoy bashing America.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

I’m arguing that their coal production is increasing while America and the rest of the developed world is decreasing and moving away from coal... Chinas centrally planned economy is IMO the biggest threat to the planet until they get on board with reducing coal usage.

Also, the industrial sector accounted for around two thirds of China’s total energy consumption and consumed about 95 percent of the country’s coal. They are polluting for industry, not their people... lets stop using population as a smokescreen for greed.



I think you guys just enjoy bashing America.

Sometimes I can't even tell if you can tell how bad your arguments are.

Yes, China should move away from coal. But the USA is ultra-promoting coal right now, Australia is in the process of opening the world's largest coal mine, and India has made huge new investments in coal. So it's not like China is uniquely failing to phase out coal.


But the question is total impact, not whether coal is uniquely bad. And China's industrial input would be FAR less is their population was 4x smaller. It would be lower still if they weren't taking on the burden of production for us and many other countries. How is that even a question?

 

[DEAD7]

Andrew Johnson
Rutherford B. Hayes
Herbert Hoover


Trump is in a weird place. He’s been actively bad. And he’s spiteful as fukk, but he just lashes out for the sake of lashing out. There’s no real rhyme or reason for some of the shyt he does. Ultimately the issue is going to be if this kind of behavior gets normalized. If more “drunk uncles” come into power, we’re in trouble.

This.
I’d include Bush2 as well.

 

[Professor Emeritus]

Crazy to think about how different these lists are than the ones Obama's opponents made when he was in office


With Obama they were writing shyt like, "He gave everyone free health care!" "He said if he had a son he would look like Trayvon!" "He apologized for American actions!" "One of his cabinet members used a private email!" "He put his feet up on the desk in the Oval Office!"


Now we have a president who is massively self-dealing with government funds, has committed numerous campaign finance violations, who is watching all of this associates go to prison one after the other, and who has committed obstruction of justice to an insane degree....and that sort of corruption doesn't even register in the lists of how bad he's been.

 

[DEAD7]

Bush is responsible for Americas longest war, and nearly a million deaths
...he’s hard to beat.

That’s not including his Katrina handling.

 

[Jesus H. Christ]

Crazy to think about how different these lists are than the ones Obama's opponents made when he was in office


With Obama they were writing shyt like, "He gave everyone free health care!" "He said if he had a son he would look like Trayvon!" "He apologized for American actions!" "One of his cabinet members used a private email!" "He put his feet up on the desk in the Oval Office!"


Now we have a president who is massively self-dealing with government funds, has committed numerous campaign finance violations, who is watching all of this associates go to prison one after the other, and who has committed obstruction of justice to an insane degree....and that sort of corruption doesn't even register in the lists of how bad he's been.

Don't forget the tan suit. That goddamn socialist communist Marxist tan suit

 

[Micky Mikey]

Trump wouldnt even be in the bottom 5
Unless you are weighing things said as heavily as things done.

20 - 30 years down the road, when the world is ravaged by climate change related disasters happening ALL at once, I'm sure history will judge otherwise. Trump may not be entirely responsible for the coming climate breakdown but he will definitely be considered a poster boy of early 21st century ignorance, greed and unmitigated capitalism (which largely faciliated this crisis in the first place) .
And before you go there - Yes, China now has a much larger carbon footprint but the crisis we'll see unfold within this generation is largely traced to all the emissions the West has emitted during the past century.

By ignoring the climate crisis (plus rolling back what little regulations we do have) during a time when action & leadership is needed to avert civilizational collapse, Trump IS the most dangerous president in modern history. His very inaction on the issue sets the world back tremendously. By mid 2020's we'll certainly know if we failed to mitigate the worst aspects of climate change. And if we're doomed by another 4 years of Trumps climate change denial and inaction, the worse is almost inevetible.

 

[Robbie3000]

This thread sent me down the rabbit hole this afternoon. Here is a good series on the presidency.

 

[Robbie3000]

By the way people shouldn’t put LBJ on the WOAT list regardless of Vietnam.

Civil Rights Bill
Voting Rights Act
Medicare
Medicaid
War on Poverty

 

[Henry Orbit]

At the rate it's going, probably the next Republican nominee

 

[ℒℴѵℯJay ELECTUA]

Trump is a saint compared to Regan & bush snr & jnr

 

[DEAD7]

20 - 30 years down the road, when the world is ravaged by climate change related disasters happening ALL at once, I'm sure history will judge otherwise. Trump may not be entirely responsible for the coming climate breakdown but he will definitely be considered a poster boy of early 21st century ignorance, greed and unmitigated capitalism (which largely faciliated this crisis in the first place) .
And before you go there - Yes, China now has a much larger carbon footprint but the crisis we'll see unfold within this generation is largely traced to all the emissions the West has emitted during the past century.

By ignoring the climate crisis (plus rolling back what little regulations we do have) during a time when action & leadership is needed to avert civilizational collapse, Trump IS the most dangerous president in modern history. His very inaction on the issue sets the world back tremendously. By mid 2020's we'll certainly know if we failed to mitigate the worst aspects of climate change. And if we're doomed by another 4 years of Trumps climate change denial and inaction, the worse is almost inevetible.

Possibly, but i dont place blame for our climate situation on Trump... its been centuries in the making and i think his 4 years isnt the make or break point its being made out to be.
Bush has a million bodies under his belt, and none of them came by way of natural disaster or a pandemic... they were the results of his(and Cheney's) decision making.

The more i think about it there isnt anything Trump has done i could put in the same conversation as the lives Bush has taken.

Bush's bullsh*t even spilled over into Obama's presidency tarnishing his time in office

 

[MoneyTron]

Okay, new list:


he's probably the worst environmental president ever and at a pretty bad time for it too, a time when we actually could have made the switch to environmentally positive policies yet he does the exact opposite.

He's a horrible civil rights president, trying to roll back literally everything he can.

He's one of the worst deficit presidents ever, crazy increase of military spending at the same time he cut taxes for the rich.

He's fukked up health care for millions of people.

He's abused human rights for thousands of people including little kids coming through the border, with something like a dozen kids dying in his camps.

He's closed all federal investigations against police departments and openly encouraged them to brutalize subjects and abuse protesters

He's reduced business regulation in ways that threaten civil rights and give corporations more freedom to screw shyt up again

He's fukked up the responses to multiple natural disasters including really really screwing up Puerto Rico something terribly

Has given Russia a free reign to commit atrocities and interfere with US politics while likely sharing state secrets with their dictator

Acted stupidly with nations like North Korea and Iran in ways that ended with no benefit to the USA and could have triggered war

He's befriended some of the most violent, abusive dictators across the world and made clear the USA will absolutely not oppose even the most obvious atrocities, even to the point of bragging that he got MBS off without repercussions

He's fed into extremely violent moves by both Saudi Arabia and Israel, including helping facilitate a Saudi war in Yemen that has killed hundreds of thousands of innocents

One of the biggest accelerators for White Supremacist feeling in our lifetimes, openly stirring up hate and encourage like-minded racists

He's turned 40% of the American public against journalism and fact-checking completely, so they have literally no rudder for truth or reality but simply believe whatever they are told to believe

He's normalized the idea of presidents ignoring norms and doing whatever the fukk they want without consequences.

And, of course, he's completely botched the government response to coronavirus and likely caused tens of thousands of deaths (or more) and cost millions of people their jobs.

He's appointed two far-right justices to the Supreme Court, one of whom is a straight Republican political operative.

He and McConnell have stacked the courts from top to bottom with terrible, unqualified, right-wing kooks

Pulled the United States out of UNESCO, the UN Human Rights Council, and the WHO

Broke the multilateral nuke deal with Iran

Left the Paris Accords

Pulled out of the Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty and the Open Skies Treaty



Edit: All this and I didn't even get to the shyt he was actually impeached for. Or fukking up election integrity. Or getting US soldiers killed in terribly conceived missions. Or the post office!

Let me also add:

Turned the DOJ into his own personal defense attorney network and appointed maybe two of the most corrupt AG's ever to leadership.

Used the military against his own citizens that were practicing their 1st Amendment rights only steps outside of White House grounds, then barricading the White House from the rest of the city.